No he didn’t. Afrolegends put valle in losers. There was 1 bison and honda used in the top 8, neither of which won a game. Were you at evo? :cybot:
Thelo got a bye for his first match, then beat me 2-1, then I THINK he beat someone else not sure who, but finally beat Afro Cole on the big screen to make it to top 8.
lol goddammit i shouldve been playing closer attention, i was the semi-finals judge after all.
were these the matches for top8 for winners then?
-Afro beat Valle
-Thelo beat Cole
-Sirlin beat Victor
-Choi beat Zass
and i think these were the matches for losers top 8
-damdai beat Cole
-Graham beat Zass
-Sin beat Victor
-Valle beat BBH
If I remember correctly, my Evo matches were:
Pools:
- vs Mace (Honda), W 2-1
- vs Kim (Guile / Blanka), W 2-1
- vs Glitch (Deejay / Honda), W 2-0
- vs Kuni (Zangief), W 2-0
Semifinals:
- bye
- vs Ryu1999 (Ryu), W 2-1
- vs Jason Cole (Dhalsim), W 2-1
Finals:
- vs Afrolegends (Deejay), L 0-2
- vs Damdai (Ken), L 0-2
I’ll add that as Honda, I’m a lot more afraid of Ryu / Ken than I am of Guile / Deejay, and a lot more afraid of these two than I am of Sagat / Chun Li / Dhalsim. I also think that Ryu is even harder than Ken, though both shotos are really hard.
I think between ryu/ken, ryu’s bigger hado, and ken’s fierce dp, just balance each other out. Ryu’s hado is harder to jump over, and if you jump over ken’s his fierce dp speed and arc combined with honda not having great air to air priority means he most likely won’t trade with ken’s fierce dp.
As a ken player my problem is wanting to sweep buttslam too early, other than that yeah getting him to the other side of the screen and throwing hados messes honda’s up.
Hey damdai, any advice for getting out of start of fight range against a honda so you can start getting hados out. I’m not asking about opening attacks but rather what you do to get at an unpunishable range.
The problem with Ken is that his fireball goes slower than Ryu’s so you have to input [whatever way around fireball] later to get around it, and Ken also recovers from his fireball a little faster than Ryu so he can do a follow-up to it faster. Add in his huge fierce dp that can tag a neutral jumping Honda from like 1/3 of the screen away, and Ken gets a sweet anti-fireball-dance setup. Ryu’s fake fireball can make Honda have to guess a bit more getting in too, but imo it’s not as worrisome as Ken’s slow fireball+fierce dp.
And then once Honda gets in, he can’t pressure Ken like he can Ryu or ST Ken. Honda can’t do safe meaty far standing jab against R Ken like he can against Ryu and ST Ken (since ST Ken’s strong/fierce dps don’t knock down and he has no reversal super, Honda didn’t have to worry about Ken’s wakeup at that range). Ken probably isn’t gonna wakeup with fierce dp very often, but still, unlike against Ryu Honda has to think about whether to stick out that jab, and that makes Honda’s pressure game a little less vicious.
Jump back roundhouse or walk up sweep xx fireball.
According to T.akiba’s frame data, N.ken recovers one frame later for every hado respective to N.ryu.
Ryu is 12 startup and 40/41/42 for recovery, and ken is 14 startup and 39/40/41. It might seem like he recovers faster, but he does have two additional startup frames for one less recovery frame. I know though, its only one frame.
Thanks, although walk up sweep seems extra risky.
The point is that once the fireball happens, Ken can start doing other stuff before Ryu can. The startup frames aren’t really that important for Honda’s purposes.
Not only that, but don’t Ken’s fireballs also travel slower? That would make it so that, by the time Honda is forced to react, Ken has had even more time to recover from throwing it, because it took longer to get there.
Well they do, and there is a difference, but its not THAT drastic. However, it is different enough, that even Honda’s floating fierce can’t get past the ken’s jab hados sometimes.
The honda has to be more strict on timing with ken’s hados.
Its too bad though that we may never see a tourney appropriate akuma in SF2.
In HDR I think that Honda does better against Ryu than Ken… aside from the reasons already given, Ken’s better upclose throw game can be worrysome. I think jab torpedo is seriously problematic much more for Ryu than Ken, as Ryu relies more on fireballs and Honda can now corner Ryu, not even get close, wait for the fireball and just torpedo through it.
Trying to throw honda can be a serious mistake if they store ochio. Hell he can just block the ticks then release his punch buttons and if I combo he’s ok, if I go for the throw, I get some big honda crack in my face.
Unfortunately, you can’t actually do that, since the startup on jab torpedo is still vulnerable to fireballs. From midrange, you can’t jab torpedo on reaction because you’ll get smacked out of your startup - you need to input jab torpedo at the same, or before, the fireball is thrown.
If you’re really on point, you can still buttslam through it, though it’s really on the edge of human reaction time to do that at midrange against a fierce Ryu fireball. It’s slightly easier to reaction buttslam against Ken though, since his fireball is a bit slower, but still very hard.
Once honda gets that close, I try to let him make the first move, since a jab dp will allow me to restart the zone game. I have also noted that buttslam is honda’s only move for getting out of meaty fireballs and fireball traps, even honda’s super loses to meaty jab hados on its startup.
I kind of believe, since I can reverse between the two hits of his super, that he should have been given a little more invincibility on his super startup just for getting through wakeup hados, that alone would have been an edge against ken and ryu.
Jump back late roundhouse is a guaranteed opening for Ken/Ryu. If they try to MP/HP headbutt they get kicked out or LP SRK’ed. If they try to LP headbutt they get to block a fireball to start the zone out. I hate that match (when the shoto knows how this match should be played) so goddamn much.
Damn you guys hate Sagat. lololol.
Mid tier this mid tier that.
Goddamn the Emperor has fallen.
That’s what happens when the Emperor gets struck in the knees with the nerf bat. :wgrin:
I just can’t see Ryu as 4th and Sagat dropping to mid. That makes little sense to me. As far as match-ups go most of their match-ups are extremely similar.
The main different ones being that Ryu loses to Gief while Sagat betas him and Sagat losing to Blanka while Ryu beats him.
The rest of their match-ups are damn near identical as far as I can tell. Please someone correct me if I’m wrong.
Sagat has slightly worse recovery on fb’s. That’s it. That’s his one nerf. The fuck people talking about when they say nerfed uppercut. His uppercut is O.Sagat’s uppercut. And TK is better and also gives him a slightly different zoning game then his Old incarnation.
If anything I would see him as a slightly varied version of Ryu with his own slight tweaks and slightly different gameplay. Wherever Ryu is on the tier list I think he shares his spot with Sagat. And even with slightly worse fb recovery then Ryu his shots still travel faster and I think they execute faster as well which is why he wins fb wars so the recovery is mitigated somewhat.
As a little bonus Sagat has some pretty applicable dizzy combos.
Sagat also has a hitbox on his arms when he throws a fireball that extends like to mid screen. Really easy to stuff.