The inevitable tier thread

DanielRGT · January 8, 2009, 6:47am

Wall bullshit isn’t abuseable as everybody has a counter to it. The only real time you can go for a walldive is on a knockdown, other than that you’re just hoping the other playing doesn’t counter it. (You can also time a walldive on a fireball spam character and probably scratch 'em, but since you’re not getting a knockdown it’s just a little bit of damage or chip if they block in time)

And flip kicks aren’t that great.

EmblemLord · January 8, 2009, 6:52am

lol@ trying to make it sound look Vega isn’t that good.

And the thing is…he doesn’t even NEED that stuff really. His ground game is enough to smoke people most of the time.

DanielRGT · January 8, 2009, 6:56am

I never said Vega wasn’t that good, I play Vega as my main. Vega is amazing. I’m just saying your points for why he’s good are naive and uninformed.

EmblemLord · January 8, 2009, 7:06am

The main shit that makes him good is the ground game. The other shit is icing on the cake. Hardly what I would call uninformed.

I mean it’s certainly not a BAD thing that he has those other tools.

Khiempossible · January 8, 2009, 8:40am

this comment would be equally valid about ST.

wall dive bullshit was never abuseable unless you had a KD/mistake first to set up the first hit.

DanielRGT · January 8, 2009, 8:48am

And I agree with you.

Trujills · January 8, 2009, 8:49am

interesting

Viscant · January 8, 2009, 9:49am

Apoc:

Thanks for the compliment bro:)

I have to say though that while I pointed out weaknesses like in the “Killing ST Vega” thread, I always thought Vega was great.

In fact, I disagree with Viscant about Vega. I was just chuckling with some Seattle bros at how Viscant was doing the same thing he did on CvS2. Basically, he is reliving the cycle of saying that Vega sucks. His SF4 assessment echoes his early CvS2 posts. I am on the opposite end. I pointed out that he would be wrong about SF4 Vega as well. People are saying he sucks and that is ridiulous for a couple reasons right away. It is still too early to have seen a master actually master him. Also, I can win with him with basics like before. I have no doubt that if I get into SF4 I will dominate with him. Vega in ST is as good as a character gets. I wish he was more fun to play but as he is, he has every tool needed to win in every match actually.

Back in the day, all Vega players just abused the wall. I always liked to be different so I played a ground game. I end up using the wall when I see players claiming that his wall stuff sucks. Yup, I play to buck the trends sometimes. It’s fun. It’s been on both sides. First was wall-dive crap. Then I brought what I thought to be finesse and footsies. People liked that way of winning more for a while and thought that the dives stunk. Then I went to using the wall again. See what I’m saying? Vega is so awesome that he can be played in many ways and win with both. I’ll recite what other players say for the perception but in all honesty, the moment ST introduced the flipkick, he became top tier in my personal book.

So, we may have used the same character but we think the opposite. I used Vega when he sucked(SF:CE/HF). I know the difference. I won tournaments before he had a flipkick and his flipkick has never sucked it has just changed in the way it should be used. Vega is good in every game in recent memory and that includes SF4 so far imo.

heheh and I was just as successful with Rog and moreso in ST’s heyday. He’s just more fun. With Vega you can literally just react and that bores me very fast. It’s more fun to create openings than to just react. Then again, I like to have fun. lol

Apoc.

Hey, I’ll be the first to admit that I blew it with Vega in CvS2. I wasn’t alone though, seems like all of Japan slept on him in that game until it was too late also. But yeah, bad call by me on that one, I didn’t understand how he was supposed to be played in that one.

I still think he’s going to be relatively low tier in SF4 though. He has some good matchups. He beats Zangief (Zangief was overrated anyways), does OK on shotos and I really think he beats Dhalsim. I think Dhalsim is going to be a top character in SF4 (only one of the arcade 17 that beats Sagat) so that’s good for him to have. I think he beats Fuerte also, but I don’t think that’ll be a very important match as far as the metagame goes.
But I don’t see how he’ll be anything but a mid-tier character in SF4. He just doesn’t do enough damage and has too hard of a time making comebacks. Hey, I’d love to be wrong about this one also. Because he does so poorly against Balrog, Sagat, Bison and Blanka, I barely play him in that game.

–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com

Destin · January 8, 2009, 1:36pm

I am surprised to find myself coming to a HD thread wanting to hear more SF4 vega thoughts.

Anyways, I have been maining vega for a bit, and I am on board with everyone who says vega is very good but probably not top. Although there are plenty of places to use the walldive outside of just knockdowns, and the fake may give even more.

System_1 · January 9, 2009, 1:52am

Why is Boxer ranked so high?

fatboy · January 9, 2009, 4:03am

Incorrect.

Sorry, Zoo I have to disagree with you on this one. I am always supportive of your enthusiasm of SF. I think it is great.

But your way off base. I would try to describe why, but I don’t have the time today. I am sure others will do so. Or I can work on it later.

Claw and Boxer are worse than their ST versions. Period. And even in ST, it was disputed a bit where they were ranked.

If I was Yoda, passing on some wisodm I would have to say: “Indisputed fact, it certianly is not.”

SweetJohnnyV · January 9, 2009, 4:18am

The more I play this game, the more I think the tiers look like this:

Top - Akuma
Mid - Everyone else

There are good and bad matchups to be sure, but it really doesn’t feel to me like there are characters that are overly good or bad, besides Akuma.

EmblemLord · January 9, 2009, 5:02am

I think I speak for everyone when I say Fuck Akuma.

System_1 · January 9, 2009, 5:35am

It’s to the point that whenever I see Akuma come up on the vs. screen I just shake my head.

Especially if it’s after I beat the person and they pick him as retaliation.

:rolleyes:

fatboy · January 9, 2009, 5:39am

My girlfriend spent nearly 2 years living in the Tanzania, Africa doing research for her PHD in anthropolgy. The swahili word for pu$$y is Kuma. Just thought you would all like to to know.

Akuma… A kuma… hmmm… makes one think…

Khiempossible · January 9, 2009, 5:59am

too bad kuma in japanese is “bear” (aka the animal)

zass · January 9, 2009, 6:16am

Not to derail, but that’s why I think it’s so sad that we have an otherwise diverse, fun, and interesting tournament game. Back to 3S chun li, I guess…

Fulaani · January 9, 2009, 6:32am

Agreed.

It’s taboo but I think banning Akuma in this particular case will make for a much more enjoyable tourney game. Even if he’s just REALLY high above the rest but justs short of being broken.

brian · January 9, 2009, 9:44am

This. Every character seems to have his 6-4 matches and his 4-6 matches… except Akuma who has a whole lot of 8-2 or whatever matches, and screws everything up.

CMX · January 9, 2009, 10:00am

akuma is japanese 101 man, it means demon.

and fuck the tier list man, just play the game and win it.