I don’t know if you bothered to read my thoughts on the matchup but this sums up most of why imo it’s 5.5-4.5 in sagat’s favor.
If you read my post I said only Apoc (one of the former best vega’s) said the matchup was even, PM him but part of it has to do with his walking speed since using it and threatening with walkup throw forces honda to react (use charge.)
Since ST was fast, will T4 become a tournament standard? I know some on PSN play on T4 because of the T4 rooms I see in the player search.
Will that end up the norm, or will they default to T3. Season’s Beatings apparently played the game on T4.
i play both online and offline with the same person.
and i wreck his dhalsims online and offline.
but his vega just gets the better of me no matter what(online or offline).
can someone please post a honda v vega match with honda 6-4ing or 5-5ing vega?
(if anyone posts a vid, which is unlikely, no ST vids plz, honda and vega have changed)
@Bruce: Afaik DJ can’t lk upkick a rh TS or he gets hit by the next one (while recovering from the upkick).
It is true that DJ has the clear advantage as soon as he can get to the sweet spot (just outside of fiece DP range) but I don’t see him getting there as easy as you guys seem to think. Advancing with lk DK only works if you’re in range to hit (which is further than you might think) otherwise you get pushed back by the next TS. Sagats TS zoning can really destroy DJ even more if you consider that it’s not an instant win if you get close. To me that matchup feels a little like vs Ryu just a lot less hard.
@jamie: could you please explain how you see DJs super giving him that much of an advantage in that matchup? How should you get close with this move?
I third that. It seems I make more errors online with countering Honda’s move than I do offline.
i cant count the times sweet poison has whiffed a cr.lp trying to hit me out of a headbutt/super, lol.
Here’s a question for sim’s, honda can be spd’d out of torpedo can’t he? Can you throw him between the two super hits. Can you throw him out of torpedo?
I think you can grab him out of jab headbutt startup, but that’s it. Vega can do it to with a off the wall grab.
Spd have air throw properties? I’ve seen it in one of zaspacer’s videos.
It’s weird and random, but it’s happened to me way way too many times.
You cannot throw any fully airborne opponent with a grounded throw. Honda is not airborne or invincible for the 1st hitting frame of the Torpedo, which is how Zangief SPDs him. I think he can be SPD’d after the 1st blocked hit of the Super, but I have yet to try it. I know in Classic ST Honda can be SPD’d after the 1st hit of the Super, so yeah, I think he can.
On the same topic, Blanka’s H Roll is not airborne on startup either. Though he hits on the first frame, he is still grounded according to the YBH scans. The V Roll is airborne right away tho.
Honda can be grabbed out of all headbutts. I’ve had fullscreen fierce headbutts SPD’ed a few times, it’s always a true WTF moment.
Evoanon is the king of headbutt SPDs, a regular trick he does is whiffing a green hand just a bit too far from me, so he recovers just in time to SPD the fierce headbutt I do to “punish” him. I have it on tape somewhere.
SPD is the only throw that I’ve seen grab Honda headbutts head-on, though. Perhaps the most WTF moment of all would be a Hawk doing his super to grab a fullscreen fierce headbutt. :looney:
I still find the notion of Vega using walkup throw as a legitimate strategy against Honda to be among the strangest things i have ever read.
I remember Thelo or was it EAMegaman being of the same opinion.
And i have never ever seen any high level Japanese Vega vs Honda match involving walkup throw in the slightest.
Considering the fact that the entire thing Honda want to do is get close to Vega so he can get life lead why would the Vega player intentionally walk towards honda losing all charge he has while Honda has Stored ochio, Buttslam, Hundred Hands and Torpedo to deal with any offense Vega can mount ??
[media=youtube]jE0W7LVeJRU[/media]
The way Kachu and Kusumondo play in this Video is at least in my opinion how the matchup is generally played.
It seems to be the most reliable way to play the matchup.
I’ve whiffed a cross-up and somehow got the timing correct so that Honda did his Super in the direction opposite mine (i.e. his super was going away from me) and managed to knee bash just as Honda was raising his arms above his head. It was online, but the lag wasn’t noticeable. Of course I tried to play it off like I planned it and did yell “PREDICTABLE”…to myself.:wgrin:
Nah, you recover in time to block the next one. But yeah it’s not smart to upkick in that situation because you get pushed back anyways.
What it comes down to is that Sagat has no range in this fight that he is absolutely comfortable in the way Ryu is.
From full screen he can’t spam tiger shots because j rh. will nail him. From 3/4 it’s the same thing except now he has to really mix up his tiger shots because one slide under a high one or up kick over a low one and DJ’s just outside sweep range.
From just outside sweep range Sagat has to be really careful because a short dread kick will beat his low tiger shot clean.
From within sweep range Sagat is completely fucked because cr. mp will stuff tiger shots.
So while the match is fundamentally the same as it against Ryu, Dee Jay has way more tools to advance in on Sagat then he does Ryu.
Nah, fake fireball is a valid tactic and not in the same bullshit realm as Claw’s wall dives or Chun’s super from VST.
C’mon dude, like I don’t expect Sagat to mix up his tiger shots.
It’s not really that much of a problem, plus since Dee Jay is always charging down/back, you really just need to look out for the low tiger shots because you can always crouch under the high ones.
Also is that vid supposed to be DJ vs. Sagat or are you trying to tell me something about DJ vs. Ryu?
Cole had some special ‘brownies’ before that match. The real cole wasn’t there. If you get my drift.
You need the know the whole story before you begin to use it as a point of contention. Just say’in.
-Fatty. :china:
Well, that was Cole’s choice then to partake in those “special” brownies before critical HDR action!
I’ve heard of meditating before you destroy everybody, but that’s going a little overboard.
Why are command throws able to do it? Can honda oicho his own torpedo?