@DarthEnder I know you haven’t been following my translations on the guides consistently so I thought I should fill you in on M. Bison’s martial art ability.
*From the Street Fighter 2 Complete File. *
So yes, M. Bison actually has martial arts ability as well as his Psycho Power. Having his fighting style listed as Psycho Power would ultimately mean he fights using techniques that have all been boosted with Psycho Power. Ultimately he has fighting ability without the use of Psycho Power.
Fair enough.
I enter the discussion just in these two
1- Of course Bison is a skilled as fuck super strong-fast-agile and coordinated motherfucker martial artist as he’s able to punch, kick, throw and overall out-tech (just think the flashyness of things like head stomps or his leg throw) opponents of every size in the highest level martial arts tournament.
Also perfect high kicks, straight punches, front flip heel kicks, crossed arms vertical stomps… that’s is’nt exactly bar brawler style
Not even Necalli is that. Maybe Blanka is the only true not martial artist
Now it’s fallen a lil bit on the stupid wizard side, but until SF4 he was an absolute punchkicking martial badass.
That was the whole concept about him, he’s good enough to kick the shit out of you as he is, but added to that he have fucking magic Psycho Power
To understand the concept design SF characters have on general physical and spiritual power in different ratio: imagine Ryu being 60/40, Sim being 10/90, Gief 0/100… Bison design was about “cheat” the total limit and be 100/100
Akuma does’nt hate him because he use Psycho Power, he hate him because he help himself with technology/external source instead of inner power.
And probably he hate him on general ALSO for the Psycho Power, but that work well at show what failure of martial artist Akuma is (thing that Gouken before, and Ryu now are understanding), since Bison is dependant from PP exactly like Akuma depend on SNH.
Ryu refused SNH and he’s making himself stronger (correct path), Akuma losed himself to give space to the SNH (bullshit path)
Akuma pretending to piss on Bison integrity is just part of the concept of show what blind douche Akuma is.
Akuma/Bison are just two faces of the same coin (trade humanity for superhuman power), his blindness is exactly despise Bison more than anybody else when he’s the closest to him (so basically hating on himself), it’s like see two religious fanatics that are basically the same aside the God they worship (PP/SNH), but yet they feel to be each other opposite.
2- Tbh Sniper Marksmanship can be in some way be considered a martial art, as it is the evolution of the bow.
And archery by some is considered an actual martial art.
And btw “Martial” come from Mars, the roman God of war. So martial literally mean "related to war"
And in 2016 a sniper rifle is more war related than spinning back kicks.
Whoa, I absolutely love the description of his moves here. What’s interesting is the old tidbit about the science team helping him develop his abilities even more. I remember that from over a decade ago being discussed but could never remember where it came from. This has interesting implications for the SF universe concerning ki/chi, it may not be a mystical force that the US govt and others are oblivious to. Here, from my understanding, is that they don’t fully know of it, but there’s enough that they don’t just outright reject it as mystical mumbo jumbo.
@DarthEnder The thing is, Bison’s always been a martial artist. His whole thing isn’t that he’s born a psychic mutant. He trained in some martial art that expanded his overall skill and gave him these abilities with an unknown master and other students. In one of the conversations we had earlier in this thread, we looked at how in his old material they stated he was born under an evil star, succeeded his master and murdered him, slowly built up Shadaloo, was pursued by authorities in his early days and disappeared when a war broke out only to resurface ages later as the Bison we know. All of that stresses that he had/has a rather strong martial arts connection. He just has evolved in a new way and psycho power being his everything would make sense to be listed as his fighting technique. It’s like how at first Ryu and Ken were intended to utilize judo and some other skills. When someone evolves something enough and have their own style they’re going to put their own brand name on it. Look at Dan. Not the best example, but he was trained in Anatsuken, washed out of Gouken’s favour, and made his own style in name and variation from the Hadou bros.
Heck, the psychic stuff could be explained away by saying that in addition to rigorous training, the art he was a part of required meditation in intense and life-threatening manners to open up the soul and spirit connection or something. With the way that martial arts in SF works on the physical body, having a strong meditation and mental path could influence the mind and do freaky things as well.
@Ultima Props for mentioning Ranma’s anything goes martial arts. That’s what I frequently look at and cite when this subject comes around. Japan in entertainment has quite a bit of leeway and* fun* with what counts as martial arts and it’s why I dig SF.
Interesting points, especially on the origin of Martial arts, never thought of it like that. On the Blanka point I’d disagree with you. He doesn’t really show it in game, but basically they said he based his fighting style on observing wild animals. He may not have anything official, but in the spirit of things, that’s not too different from how Kung Fu was based on observing and interpreting animal movements. If I was redesigning him for SF5, I’d make some sweeping changes. He knows Dan and Dan, despite being…well Dan…has foundation in martial arts form. I could see Blanka learning a thing or two and mixing it all together to combine his rough, bestial fighting skill with some martial arts and really refine the animal mimicry. Not quite as complex as Gen; but more like the basic concept and having a few moves in his arsenal than entire styles based on Crane AND Mantis;
Rolling Attack [Monkey Based: Swinging and cannon ball launching utilizing agility]
Storming Panther [Jungle Cat Based: Anti-air move utilizing lunging and claw strikes]
Thunderous Leapfrog [Frog Based: Multi hit kick special that ends with electrified spinning heel strike]
Man I wish I could make 3d models, I’d totally re-design Blanka, mockup some animations, find Ono’s favourite Beer and mail it all to him asap
It’s interesting to note that the Hadoken had been described as having reached a level of Senjutsu, meaning that “ki” attacks are still classified under an esoteric art even in the SF universe. It’s not something someone should be able to learn from basic martial arts training alone.
Unlike a Hadoken, Guile’s Sonic Boom doesn’t rely on the bodies torsional force, but upon the speed of the arms and the shockwave created. Just from the description it sounds like it uses less “ki” overall, but makes up for it with the actual shockwave.
The “flash” in a Somersault Kick is not “ki” energy, but a pure sound shockwave which creates a vacuum pressure around itself that can split the moisture in the air.
Overall Guile’s and Nash’s special techniques are described as sounding even fiercer than their Shotoclone counterparts.
I think the difference between the two is that the hadoken is intended to win a martial arts match. Charlie, on the other hand, seems to have developed the sonic boom and flash kick with a military mindset IE: to kill the hell out of people. Those attacks are lethal as SHIT.
I don’t think the ancient etymology of the word is really relevant to the modern meaning. That kind of ridiculously broad interpretation means blowing people up with drones or dropping nukes on cities is still a “martial art”.
Take martial arts, consider just "arts"
An art is a discipline that you learn, a discipline (kick-faces, painting, play a violin) is a knowledge that you get from a master, that usually learned it from his master and so on
Applied to martial arts these movements they teach you go to replace your istinctive (animal) reaction with a more efficient movement… it does’nt erase your istinct, it become your new istinct. But is teached.
If you’re trained well if somebody try to punch you you don’t THINK about what you learned in the gym, you just istinctively do a boxing dodge/block because is becomed your new istinct.
The point of martial arts is that generation after generation, master after master, the experience get cumulated.
Four masters ago a Master losed 3 teeths because at that time the way of block that strike sucked, so pissed he searched a solution and developed a better way to block, and four master after you get the right defense from that strike without have to lose YOUR 3 teeths.
Think technology, we don’t start each time reinventing the wheel or discovering fire, we are born with PC and planes, cool shit.
That’s the basic concept of Martial Art and culture on general (and culture differentiate us from animals waaay more than intelligence itself), wich is what Blanka does’nt have
Necalli look wild, but his movements still show a style, coded controlled movements, like a primitive martial art.
Also Nec come from a culture, lived with other humans, learned from and fought other humans
Blanka had to use his own experience (wich erase the whole concept of martial art), no master, and not even peoples to fight… his fighting was about hunt animals and not get eated by animals
His style does’nt replace istinct because his style is his istinct+personal experience(3 teeths), aside being smarter he’s not more martial artist than a monkey, a jaguar, a caiman or whatever else tried to eat him
Btw it can become a style/culture if he will ever teach it to somebody (becoming the first Grandmaster of that shit), like for that Tarzan Dan alt lol
ps: kung fu animals styles was’nt about imitating animals.
Was about two little chinese with fun staches punching the shit out of each other faces. Then they enjoyed it so much that they keep searching new creative ways to keep beat the shit out of each other, and doing so they took inspiration from animals movements.
Blanka lacked the fun stache and a little chinese to punch in the face.
Blanka never learned from animals how to punch chinese peoples, he learned from animals how to survive in amazonian jungle, wich as only possible darwin path turned him into a giant greenmonkeyjaguar able to generate electricy.
Wich in SF world is good enough to fuck up humans too, even if he never (or for most of his life) trained for that
I’m not sure where you got that definition of art from. The world is full of self-taught artists who never studied under masters.
The fact that Bison learned his powers from a master only makes him a martial artist if the powers he taught him included martial arts. If Bison’s master only taught him his psychic abilities, and Bison learned his martial arts elsewhere, then the two things are completely unrelated.
Granted Gouken’s style variant of Hadoken is intended to win a match, but the Goutetsu style would’ve probably been the more lethal variant. Although this was during a time in the story when Ryu and Ken’s art wasn’t considered rooted in ansatsuken, it just makes me wonder how a plain Hadoken could potentially kill a person. Would it have to deal with how dense the ki is? Because Hadoken doesn’t travel at Sonic Boom speeds, it’s killing potential would have to be behind how dense it would be.
Even during this time when the Shoryuken isn’t deemed an Ansatsuken it still described as an uppercut with several times the power of a straight. Although a boxing straight isn’t as powerful as an uppercut or hook in of itself, and a karate straight (Gyaku-zukior Ryu’s SFV st. HP) is even less power, in the right hands it’s a devastating blow, and with several times the power packed within the torsion of a jumping uppercut at.
This reminds me of the SFII V anime series. I don’t remember the explanation but in one episode they explained the origins of hadouken and shit.
I had actually posted this in the old thread describing the reference it had to Seth’s SF4 stage. Apparently the S.I.N labs were doing some test that had to do with Kundalini
Speaking of Seth’s stage, I’ve finally completed the meaning behind the monitor in the background.
Like I had mentioned previously, the diagram of a body is actually a depiction of the Qi Gong meridians, and the four symbols next to it are listed as; Ājñā, Viśuddha, Svādhiṣṭhāna, and Mūlādhāra are 4 out of the 7 Chakra’s of Hindu tantra. Next to each listing is कुण्डलिनी; which is Sanskrit for Kundalini which is a “spiritual awakening” where one can reach enlightenment. Now the interesting part is that I had neglected to mention are the kanji symbols next to each of these labels, which are…
打 - striking “Ājñā”
極 - pinnacle “Viśuddha” (concept art originally had this as defense “防”)
投 - throwing “Svādhiṣṭhāna”
波 - surge “Mūlādhāra”
氣 - qi (below the diagram also listed with “PuraaNa” directly below that.)
It seem’s that whatever they’re doing in the background of the S.I.N laboratory seems to be ki related in nature, and judging by the listings of striking and throwing it can only be speculated that these are battle enhancements and not something to do with a weapon (like BLECE) in of itself. Imo Seth’s secret lab stage is literally where they make Seth clones, the bodies that happen to be in the tubes around the lab and in the center machine are either Seth clones in stasis, “Abels” who have yet to become “Seths”, or maybe even a mixture of both (Seths in the machine and Abels outside).
This is all speculation of course, but just going by what the monitor is showing, I would say it has more to do with research dealing with “ki” enhancements rather than “ki” weapons.
I was interested in Cammy’s AAC account for X-Men vs. Street Fighter, being her first entry as Killer Bee. It basically states that 3 years before Street Fighter II she was Dictator’s brainwashed killing weapon and that after eliminating Apocalypse she went full retarded and joined Delta Red, so nothing too enlightening. There’s also a comment about her red long coat taken directly from the Animated Movie. Something from the japanese text is missing and I’m sure bakfromon can complete it.
「スパII」 の3年前、まだシャドルーに洗脳されているという設定で登場。ベガのジャマをする者をことごとく排除する殺人兵器として働き、彼の宇宙征服の障害となるアポカリプスの抹殺を試みる。水色の特殊レオタードにおそろいの水色の**?子、ちびネクタイといった衣装はシャドルーに給されたもので、「ストZERO3」と同じだが登場したのは本作が最初。シャドルーでのコードネームが「キラービー」というのも、本作で明らかになった。ちなみに、登場シーンで羽?つている赤いロングコートは、アニメ?画で?ていたものと同じ。?****?**はアポカリプスとの闘いのショックでシャドルーのマインドコントロールが解けると同時に記憶を失い、それが「スパII」でのデルタレッド時代へとつながっていく。
Doctrine Dark’s scan.
So wait, what exactly happened in that scene? Was it Ryu feeling SnH waking inside him?
Hum, I don’t think that’s the case. In the pods attached to the machine in the centre of the stage, we can see some people trapped inside of it. They all have different forms, including what seems to be female ones. Some thought that they were the Dolls, but that doesn’t seems to be the case. Nevertheless, whoever was inside those pods, were killed in the fire/lava under the laboratory…
If that was a “Seth/Abel” factory, it would contradict Mike Bison/Balrog’s USFIV prologue were he’s the one responsable for guarding the remaining Seths. However, Ed was in the Secret Laboratory when he was “rescued” by Mike Bison.
If he was developed by Vega’s scientists and was being experimented on by Seth’s scientists after Shadoloo’s “downfall” is unknown.
Also, where did you get that image from the background monitor?
Nice work on finding the meaning of the sanscripts!
@“Lord Vega”:
And you really believe that this anime is supposed to play after Akuma attacked Bison? You really think that, with the atmosphere presented in that anime, the endings of SF2 still happened?
So, according to your logic: The final battle was about to happen. Akuma appeared and attacked Bison with the Shun Goku Satsu. Bison was unconscious and Akuma left, assuming Bison to be dead. Then Bison got up again and the five fighters confronted him and the scenes from the anime trailer happened.
You think that’s the intention? Really?
In the same way Scorpion’s classic costume in the new “Mortal Kombat” pays homage to a canon event from the old “Mortal Kombat” which is not canon anymore in the new continuity.
Except they altered the events either way. Even if we assume that Akuma attacking Bison still happened, the trailer still retcons everything:
Old:
Guile: "Hey Bison, remember me? Me and Charlie?"
Bison: "I remember, Guile. You’re not the runt you were then. Go ahead, kill me quickly."
Jane: “Honey stop. Killing Bison won’t bring Charlie back.”
New:
Guile: "Bison, if you surrender now, I assure you fair judgment."
Bison: “Don’t be presumptious. I won’t allow you to touch me. I won’t allow any of you to lay a single finger on me.”
<Boom!>
Now, try to reconcile this. Do you still believe that the anime trailer is supposed to seamlessly fit into the events of SF2, being the natural continuation?
Even if we assume that Guile’s ending never came to pass because Akuma attacked Bison before Guile had the chance to say the stuff from the game, the way Bison acts in both scenes is totally different.
So, if one fighter had defeated him in a formal battle, he would have been all: “I’m at your mercy. If you want to kill me, make it quick.” But after being attacked by five people, he is: “Ha, you can never defeat me. So long, suckers!”
As far as I remember, the last time you wanted to find out whether you could shed some light on the artwork by looking up an interview. Then you didn’t name me whether you found something useful, so I assume the interview didn’t mention this artwork at all.
So, can you provide an argument why Ryu was not the canon tournament winner that is not disproven in my essay? (I’m pretty sure the essay covers whatever arguments you brought back then.)
http://www.denny-r-walter.de/sf2-winner.html
Alternately, can you find a flaw in my argumentation?
Because there are five fighters attacking M. Bison, so there was most likely not a formal final battle.
Of course not. Why should they mention anything that didn’t happen anymore?
Do you remember Capcom mentioning that they retconned a good bunch of SFA3 by making Charlie’s SFA2 ending his canon “death” scene? No, they didn’t.
People had to analyze the SF4 intros and endings to come to the conclusion that Charlie’s death scene is the one from SFA2. And many people tried to deny it, believing that Guile’s SFA3 ending is still in effect and that Chalie falling down head over heels in Guile’s scene was just symbolic or whatever.
Then came SF5 and it was shown without a doubt what was already alluded to in SF4: That Charlie’s SFA2 ending is the canon one now.
But did they tell you this when SF4 came out? Did they say: “Listen, SFA3 has been retconned. When Guile speaks about Charlie still being alive, he’s not talking about the fact that he believes Charlie survived an explosion at Bison’s base. He’s talking about Charlie falling down a waterfall”?
No, they didn’t. They presented their anime scenes and you had to figure it out yourself.
Likewise, you have a post-SF2 anime that shows the final battle against Bison in a totally different manner than what we’ve known from SF2. Just like always: Capcom gives us the scene, but no further explanation.
And you still think the whole Akuma stuff, which would be a totally stupid Big Lipped Alligator Moment in this case (unlike in the original game where this action actually defeated Bison and ended the story) is still supposed to be there until Capcom explicitly says: “Akuma attacking Bison at the SF2 tournament is not canon anymore”?
Nice! You pulled the text yourself? I fixed the missing parts for you, but you basically got the summary of the entry down. You were missing the characters for “hat”, “film”, “woven”, “wearing”, and “end”.
Oh hardly, this was before a time of SnH inside of Ryu and Evil Ryu in general (this anime was released around the time of SFZ).
The feeling Ryu was describing was basically a manifestation of an unprepared kundalini awakening (spiritual awakening) that was unintentionally triggered in him by Dhalsim’s own example of a controlled kundalini. If one were to experience an unpleasant kundalini it would basically feel like a sense feeling of displeasure or an uncontrolled response, in the scene specifically Ryu feels an intense surge of energy he can’t figure out what to do with, and feels like it’s literally going to explode out of him. This unpleasant feeling is felt too by Ken during the end of the series right before he develops the Hado Shoryuken. Sim described the energy as having the potential to overwhelm a person and leave them unconscious, but they personally described the feeling with a sense of fear like it was going to “explode out of them”, if they hadn’t of dispelled it into an attack.
Kundalini, as Dhalsim describes in the series, is his own specific type of Hado.
I’ll actually retract my theory about the Seth factory, as I actually forget about the female figures that were in stasis aswell.
So they are more than likely the kidnapped fighters who meet a tragic fate, but whatever the monitors stats in the background are displaying have to deal with those elements I previously posted (imo it in itself probably has to deal with the Seth clones). Plus more, as there are characters in red blue and yellow, and I can only make out the red and blue ones for “evil” 惡 and pressure “壓”. The others next to it I have yet to make out.
The images are actually taken from the Secret SIN Lab Playstation Home Game Space (closed 2015).
Edit: found 1 more character, plus there happens to be some more text in Japanese below… too blurry to read unfortunately
If anyone wants to take a “tour” of S.I.N labs here’s a video
