Juri is more lucky for being with Seth than Nash for being unknowingly?
UhâŠpower and authority are power and authority. There are levels of it. The Illuminati works at a MASSIVE level of power & authority. A lot of people are pawns to them. In fact, their pawns have pawnsâŠand those pawns have pawns and so on. Hell, Urienâs entire story arc is about wanting to no longer be a pawn under the authority of others.
Is Juri working on the behest of anyone else? Is she fulfilling the goals of someone else unknowingly? If those answers are âYesâ, then yes sheâs a pawn. Is she working on her own, under her own authority and such? Then no, sheâs not a pawn.
If Charlie was resâd by the Illuminati so that they could use him for their own ends, with Nash unknowingly fulfilling the goals they resâd him for as they take advantage of his monomaniacal focus on killing BisonâŠthat makes him a pawn of them. Is he working towards his own goals? YesâŠbut thatâs because he has been brought back from the dead by a power outside himself. That immediately shifts the power dynamic of the scenario. Nash had NO AUTONOMY to continue to act on his own. The Illuminati would have raised him solely to accomplish their own goals. If he follows this plan (knowing or unknowing) he is a pawn of the Illuminati through and through. If he rebels against his, he removes himself from the boardâŠor, at the very least, from the power structure of the IlluminatiâŠand ceases to be their pawn.
Itâs pretty simple, man. Being a pawn isnât some giant insultâŠitâs just the way the story is playing out.
You misunderstanding the context of power in the definition of pawn. It sounds like you associating it with how strong Nash is which had nothing to do with it.
No, rayplay is right. Interesting NPCs ar always fodder for playable characters. They just donât need to be part of the story (see also: numerous examples, but also secret characters like the Marvel hidden characters in Marvel Superheroes vs. Street Fighter and Marvel vs. Capcom).
Never having anyone die is stifling, story-wise. Though thatâs if you care about the story in the first place. Regardless, character death should never be a good reason to not bring a character back.
Shakunetsu:
Iâm pretty sure this is wrong. Geeseâs official death in Fatal Fury series is in Real Bout: Fatal Fury, and he has never canonically appeared after that, nor did he die before that. Nightmare Geese doesnât count.
Iâm simply against using the word âpawnâ to pejoratively refer to Nash when there are tons of other âpawnsâ in the series who are held in high esteem.
Edit: And no, itâs not just my fanboy spirit that canât tolerate this nonsense. Nash accomplished a lot in the lore and was thus deemed qualified to be chosen for Illuminatiâs undertaking over, say, Chun-Li or some other strong fighter to finish Bison.
Dude. Charlie is in my top 3 fav characters. Iâve loved the guy since I first picked up alpha 2 for the Saturn in the 90s. Us using pawn isnât a knock against him, weâre looking at his*** role*** and speculating about how things will play out. Thereâs no active attempt to put him down. It has nothing to do with esteem. Nothing to do with liking or disliking him. Itâs all about how heâs gonna be utilized in the story by the powers that be.
Take off your rose tinted glasses and stop making it personal. What exactly has Nash accomplished in lore?
*Nothing.
*
Nash wanted to investigate Shadaloo and Nash was killed in the line of the duty by the very people he was investigating Shadaloo for. He was the quintessential example of a pawn that became useless once he developed a mind of his own. Bison even calls him this very thing in Guileâs Alpha 3 ending, which goes to show you Capcomâs line of thinking about the character. Now Nash has been revived to be another tool in the SSâs toolbox. Nash is a pawn, that is his role in the SF plot, second only to his original role - âGuileâs missing friendâ.
Nash did not achieve a fraction of what Guile and Chun-Li achieved in the years he was absent. His greatest achievement was probably rescuing Abel - but only to Abel. Nashâs power on the narrative was only ever felt with his death. His death gives other characters power to do what they need to do.
And yes, it is just your fanboy spirit talking here. Because realistically, to qualify as a potential member of the Illuminati you have to be part of the rich aristocratic class (of Europe probably), born into specific familial bloodlines. More importantly, you have to believe what they believe - It is a religious cult. A dead US army grunt isnât Secret Society material, which is why he still doesnât even know they exist. You honestly think that Gill and co actually think Nash is special? They might tell him that to make him feel better, but Nash is not special to them. Nash is âusefulâ only.
No, Nash was chosen because he died, giving them the opportunity to remake him and use him.
Just from playing the story itâs kinda hard to believe his reactions or rather the lack of it.
Like if anyone just woke up and had stitches all over the body and this random gem on their forehead, the most normal thing expected from said person is to ask himself/herself what the fuck happened or something like that. Then thereâs this girl who just happens to be there and he doesnât even ask her many things or consider how suspicious this unknown woman can be.
I have a feeling that they probably cut down some parts of his story, in the story trailer it seems like the same thing happens there (the beginning that is) so I wonder if the cinematics will elaborate more on things like that.
I honestly feel that he knows Helen from before, but yeah, youâre right, I think some meat was cut. Sheâs SovietWaifu is really caring, warm and helpful, but in the clip we see of her and Charlie from storymodeâs trailer, Charlie is on a slab and she looks a little stern. June is gonna be a loooooooooong wait :heartbreak:
Because he is?
Thatâs literally ALL Nash has ever been, save for mentoring Guile.
First a pawn to his government, then a pawn to his commanding officers, now a pawn to Illuminati
But thing is - Charlie doesnât even KNOW that. He has one purpose in life right now - avenge himself and deal with Bison. Thereâs not much going on for that character apart from âDonât cross paths with me or youâll dieâ shtick
Power can be used as a different term. Thereâs power that implies physical/mental strength, and thereâs power that implies control. Nash has no power over what Illuminati want to achieve by using him
Exactly. Illuminati want Bison removed from the scene as his ogranization essentially prevents their activity. Nash wants Bison dead as an act of revenge. Illuminati find Nash, check his memory, see that he has a vendetta against Bison, and make him their tool in destroying Shadaloo. Simple as 2+2
Agree with everything except the part in bold.
There is zero reason to believe that. Helen offered to help Nash by telling him all she knows about Bison, and in return Nash will have to do stuff for her. Nash isnât killing Bison for the Illuminati.
The only thing that prevents the SS from activating themselves completely is time. They are biding their time and waiting for a precise moment to reveal themselves. There is no reason whatsoever in the canon to believe that the Illuminati are hindered by Shadaloo or that they view them as enemies even.
Who says Helen works for the Illuminati though?
Itâs like how Dictator is with Seth and Nash with Urien or Gill?
You guys just donât want to admit youâre using the wrong word here. Tell me how Nash is a pawn and Viper, Juri, Seth, heck any character that works within the boundaries of an organization isnât and I will say no more. Some of you here are so stubborn to admit it when theyâre proven wrong with evidence (Daemos) and then some others idolize the aforementioned so much, theyâll agree with whatever he says. Sad.
Nash is a pawn to Illuminati because theyâre using him to achieve removal of Bison and Shadaloo and has no power over that because he isnât aware of Gillâs intentions
Seth is a pawn to Bison because he is his own creation, and despite having his own brains (i.e. he became the boss of SIN, organized the SF4 tourney, etc) - always has been one, and I also think that knowing how arrogant Bison is - he expected Sethâs betrayal
Juri isnât a pawn to anybody because she acts of her own accord, achieving her own goals, so her allegiance with Seth was pretty much a temporary one to reach Bison through SIN
Viper is working as a secret agent, she can only be called a âpawnâ of sorts, technically, when her agency requires her to do their bidding according to the will of the government, but she went on that job on her own, through her skills
There you go again trying to make this personal. Your argument is so weak that you are now basically attacking me and other users here to distract from that reality. This behavior is the only thing sad here.
If you canât handle debate, then maybe it isnât for you. Perhaps you can join Cipher with your pitchforks and âwe are the 99 percentâ protest signs outside my house.
You can say that yes. Not by Nash though.
Iâd like to think this is a more suitable definition for the word pawn.
A person doesnât have to be lacking in power to be used as a pawn, in fact some of the most powerful people can be used as the most effective pawns (just ask M.Bison). It really all boils down to manipulating someone or something to do your bidding.
I wouldnât even think of Sean as a pawn, mainly because Ken would have to be using him to further an agenda. Seanâs like what Birdie is to Karin now, although Birdie is more of a pawn in the general sense of the word. Ken doesnât get anything out of telling Sean around, or kicking his butt to teach him. Sean might be oblivious to the fact Ken finds him irritating, but he is receiving some form of training from him to which Ken doesnât get anything out of. Sean even receives some perks by being able to freeload at Kenâs house on occasions. A pawn in the truest sense of the word wouldnât receive anything unless it were to help further whatever cause theyâre meant to accomplish.
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Anyways⊠I got a pretty decent high res shot of the Bison mystery ball in the New York stage which should definitely cast out any shadows of doubt as to what it is.
We should start gathering the âcharacter titlesâ by the way. Like one of Necalliâs is âNemesis of Mankindâ, which lends itself to the idea that he really isnât human at all. And perhaps never was.