If you have a personal agenda/vendetta against/with Daemos - then please move that to Personal Messages and don’t fill this thread with flame war junk. We’ve had enough of this with vasili, no need for another round of that with you as the next main actor
I don’t understand the rationale of people saying that the Aftermath trailers and TTB are non-canon. The Aftermath trailers has the caption “shortly after SFII”. This firmly places it within the game’s continuity. The trailers came directly from Capcom themselves and using the same studio that made the in-game anime scenes made those trailers.
TTB being a prologue fills in the background info we need for SFIV’s plot. What is S.I.N, what is BLECE, Shadowloo current status at the time of the game. I also believe Chun’s prologue in Super reference an event that happened in that movie.
Let me notate the difference between Mary Sue-ing and just being strong. What does Karin want? To become stronger? That’s fine, she shares that with almost half the cast. But the Mary Sue factor starts to set in when she effortlessly:
-Disposes of a group of Shadowloo thugs fighting Zangief
-Maintains her progression while keeping up her status, something Ken struggles to do
-Keeps up with Dhalsim, a master of Yoga who is (by my guess) 3-4 times older than her and has way more experience
If you notice, there’s a pattern to the above: It’s not enough to simply be powerful. To be a Mary Sue, you need to eclipse other characters and invalidate them. Superman is crazy powerful, but isn’t a Mary Sue compared to other heroes because he has recognizable limits and isn’t considered better than everyone at everything ever. Does Karin even have a flaw? A weakness? Something that seriously hinders her at all? No, not even the stuff which is an issue for other characters in the same game. That is why she is considered a Mary Sue in my book.
What if such a weakness simply hasn’t been exposed yet?
There’s a little difference, I do this for fun.
Also He could still refere them as canon source, while they’re not just to glorify his theorys about Ryu beeing important.
The good thing is, Necalli will move him to the sidechars like he was in SF3 and were his place is,so fiannly people will pay more attention to the chars who do all the work and actually have personality and developemeant.
Chun doesn’t refere to the TTTB, she referes to the Juri OVA, the only canon anime.
You won’t. You’re like Dan to me.
But you’re also derailing the thread with your bullshit, and that’s not cool. We’ve been here before, I tell you to produce your sources, you say you can’t and I tell you to shut the fuck up. Then is your cue where you call me a tyrant who is trying to suppress the truth of your Japanese fanzines. Then I laugh and you vow to go back to your Japanese waifu forums where you’re awesome. This is the 4th time this has happened in this thread alone. Without sources to back up your claims, your argument is meaningless.
Chun’s SSF4 prologue canonizes both TTTB and Juri’s OVA beyond a shadow of a doubt. Only an imbecile would disagree with this after all these years of SF4.
@DarthEnder
I wanted to leave you some sources to show you how Shinku translates to “True Void” in case you were still a bit skeptical.
Link
http://i.imgur.com/uMuNLDs.jpg
“real” - “emptied” (true void)
When speaking in the context of everyday life and general things 真空 can be seen as meaning “vacuum”,
But when applied to the context of Buddhism, and more specifically Martial Arts, 真空 carries a slightly different but deeper connotation.
I find sources from 2001 so people are expecting a little bit more when you’re not delivering
I was going to say “sorry for bringing this up again…”, but after more Cipher nonsense even going around this topic again will feel refreshing. That said:
You see a total correlation between those three points (the first three you mention). I on the other hand don’t see a necessary, not even implied, correlation between SIN’s collapse AND Rashid’s friend (who is/was totally a SIN researcher, my fault here) kidnapping. SIN was a large organization, after its fall, many of its employees could have spread, start working elsewhere, etc. I see Shadowloo’s kidnapping of SIN’s researchers as something that has been happening since its collapse, but not something that necessarily happened at the moment of SIN’s fall. Where you see temporal correlation, “SIN fell this day, so all researchers were kidnapped this day or in a very short period after it” (not your quote, of course), I only see “SIN fell. Some/many SIN researchers are known to be kidnapped NOW. We don’t know when they were kidnapped.”
Anyway, all of this will probably get resolved come June. If Gouken’s still around (even if not rendered and just mentioned because renders are expensive), and he doesn’t seem to have lost contact, the meeting and the kidnapp probably happened close to the SFV timeline. If, on the other hand, Ryu’s been shown to wander Gouken-less for a long time, and/or we’re told Gouken has left, then what you say is probably correct and that Ryu + Gouken scene is from a few weeks after the end of SFIV.
Buhu, I’m not using american sources.
Copy & Paste private chats? Can do, I will get banned for this if someone sees this.
But this is totaly worth it, if I can prove that you are wrong.
No it’s not.
I didn’t collected these data and transalted so much stuff word for word,with double check to make sure that there’re no error, just to lose that now,because a little american fraud doesn’t belive it without having a link.
Closed Forum, you get only acces with invite, even if I would send the link, you wouldn’t see anything,cause you had to register first,what you only can with invite.
I know why you didn’t try on Capcom-Unity, because noone wants to listen to you. Here you have a bounch of people who follow you without asking.
It’s sad.
You cannot convince people with your words, you need people who follow you blind.
You cannot prove your shit either, make a theory use a non-canon source as backup and call it a day.
I wish I could find this piece of a crap called link now, just to throw it into your god damn face.
All I find is that stupid wiki entry that states TTTB is non-canon, hm that could have write anyone.
Oh wait it’s the truth.
No it’s not 2001, it was 2010 if I remember right, have to contact some people,maybe they can find it.
You’ll be banned from your Japanese Illuminati if you expose them as a source? And you wonder why no one in this thread wants to take you seriously.
Great, just as we’ve been jumping into some amazing discussion this garbage happens…again…
Anyways, I disagree with Karin being a Mary Sue. I mean right now she’s really not being that challenged, but she’s not easily trumping the vets and the story is rather short. Sure she’s keeping up with Dhalsim, but if she was keeping up with him and he was starting to worry, then that’d be problematic. If anything, the reason she’s balancing work-life balance better than Ken Right now, is because of how hardcore her family has trained her. Ken was a bit of a brat hence being shipped off to Gouken and then becoming the guy we all love. Karin’s family are martial arts prodigies and pillars of the community, she probably doesn’t deviate from family business other than her Sakura obsession which, seems to be reigned in and possibly never as extreme as I previously thought. Plus, her becoming the head of the family may be a plot point - did something happen to her dad? Who knows where things will go, maybe she’s cut out a chunk of her life to gain the balance to things that Ken doesn’t have. Dude is rich, a fighter and a family man, but he’s still flashy and a fun-loving jet setting guy. Karin seems to have a stricter schedule on things. I’m shocked I’m definding her like this because, as I’ve previously said, to me she was there. Found her rivalry with Sakura fun and her moves fun, but I never really focused on her to love or hate her. I’m digging her now, but I’m waiting to see where she goes before putting her in the Mary Sue and Marty Sue Dance Hall.
All of the prologues are a bit thin, I’m waiting for the full story mode to make judgements. Right now, some of you may not find her terribly interesting, and hey, I can respect that, but if we really want to throw the Mary Sue label, it all comes down on Ingrid.
I’m rationally and irrationally irritated by Ingrid because of how without any build up, she sweeps in mysteriously and messes stuff up.
She: is powerful enough that Rose can’t “read” her, destroys Bison, redefines our entire understanding of Psycho and Soul power, changes the very power-ceiling of the series, displays Darkstalkers level supernatural power and vanishes OUT OF TIMELINE without any explanation. That’s a mary sue that’s damaging to the brand. She’s visually a young girl, younger that Sakura possibly, but she’s a full on mystical being that’s strongly implied to be a Goddess.
I don’t have any problems with such a concept on its own. Heck, Capcom could make her the star of her own franchise and I’d be down for that. It may not be my thing, but who knows. The problem is of her being in Street Fighter. Yes we have mutants and powerful people – it’s an anime/manga-inspired universe. There has to be a limit.
It’s akin to Dhalsim’s god Agni popping up as a challenger. Street Fighter’s slowly gotten power creep ever since Alpha for better (Bison) or worse. I don’t want this to become DBZ. I’m already a teensy bit nervous with Necalli. I like the character design and he seems interesting, but I’m worried how he’ll affect the world of Street Fighter going on.
People were discussing a few pages back about how in the old days, things were more balanced in that, with a right combo of skill and opportunity everyone should be (within reason) able to beat each other. I do like that Bison’s powered up, but back in the days when we all thought Akuma literally dragged you to hell, that became part of the problem. There’s going to be tiers and it makes sense for Bison to be so high, heck with my increased exposure, I’ve grown to really dig both Urien and Gill.
Power tiers are unavoidable, but it’s the responsibility of the key holders to the series to reign it all in. I love Dragon Ball Z and (shameless plug) I’m the voice of Freeza in the Mugen game Hyper Dragon Ball Z by Team Z2. The reason I’m so in love with that project is that it brought the characters back to martial arts and techniques. DBZ often gets to focused on powerlevels, new forms and energy blasts. I don’t want the future of SF to have all these rich characters sweating and grimacing on a hill while Ryu and Ken get Heavenly Hadou forms to beat AllKillerNoHopeForJusticeMurderGargoyleXThunderMurderNeedsMoreMurderAssassin Akuma - The Fist of Ascension.
You know after reading this page, I was gonna say something regarding the heat that’s going on here but I’m afraid it would only make things worse so I’m not gonna lol.
Fucking hell Cipher, are you really still doing this? You won’t even say WHAT SITE YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT. In fact, you’ve avoided giving a specific anything for us to reference. The whole point of a reference is so someone else could look at it and get the same info you got. Even neogaf leakers have to register with the mods or they get ignored. I’m not saying you have to give us the entire chat log, but you are going out of your way to avoid bringing up anything someone else could see and call you out on.
BUT WE DON’T HAVE ANY PROOF YOU’VE TRANSLATED SHIT. To us, you’re just some guy on the other side of a keyboard; we can’t tell if you’re giving the truth or talking out of your ass without any of the references you’ve so passionately avoided. Why should we believe you?
First time I’m seeing this thread. I purposely avoided all SFV story discussion until now cause I wanted to play the game myself first. Looks like I missed a bunch of (bad) stuff.
So wait: Am I the only one really enjoying the story prologues so far? I’ve played through all but Ryu, Ken, Chun-li and Rachid so far and, despite the bad Bengus art, I’m really liking what I’m seeing so far. It’s a giant II, III, Alpha (and a bit of IV) hodgepodge and, as far as I’m concerned, this is how SFIV’s story should have been. Can’t wait to see the full thing in June!
Not to mention, having a big bunch of story appearances from characters who will no doubt join the cast eventually is exciting! OKay, maybe not Sakura, but I’m excited about seeing the rest!
Karin is not a Mary Sue. WTF. She’s the same exact character as before, only now she’s (officially) fighting different opponents. She also didn’t beat Dhalsim, but can keep up (which is fine; Dhalsim was never high on old tier list anyway despite Karin equating Oro with 'Sim; though 'Sim fighting Oro is interesting, but we can easily speculate that Oro would unlikely use his full force against him). BUt LOL at Karin having Conqueror’s Haki!
I have no idea what the hell is going on in Necali’s story though. Necali is Jojo as fuck though.
Who the hell is Ed? Is he that boy that I see in… Birdie’s story was it? Is he talked about more in the remaining stories?
EDIT:
Only glossed over that discussion on “Mu” last page. Not sure if this was mentioned, but if you’re wondering why some might think “Mu” as some kind of technique, it’s because Ono stated in an interview that Gouken “used the power of Mu” to survive the Shun Goku Satsu. That’s also why it’s in the SF Encyclopedia. It’s also, as far as I know, the only reference to how Gouken survived his battle with Gouki. Not much to go on, hence the potential for confusion.
Jesus Bison Christ…
Some of this on this page is right up there with “Yeah but my dad works at Nintendo!” level bullshit
Produce sources or GTFO with this stupidity.
.
Ed is the blonde boy in Nash’s story who can use Psycho Power and has a Shadaloo emblem burned into the palm of his hand which glows. He was featured in Balrog’s SF4 and SSF4 endings.
Ok, and to address your point about Mu, if anyone were to say; “Gouki had used the power of SnH to assault his master and brother.” You would not be wrong in saying this, because it’s not only that his fighting style is based on this power, it’s also what’s exclusively needed for Shungokusatsu.
Gouken’s techniques require the power of Mu, techniques like Shinkuu Hadoken and Shinkuu Tatsumkai require you to tap into this power. Just as techniques like Metsu Hadoken and Metsu Shoryuken require you to tap into the power SnH.
It’s all pretty much cut and dry.
I always get this funny interaction in my mind whenever I see guys ramble about some secret source:
Calls some secret landline that he only has access to
Secretary: "Hello?"
Guy: "Can I speak to Jack?"
Secretary: "Come again?"
Guy: "Oops. I meant to say…Fish aren’t meant to be caught by Fishermen."
Secretary: “I’ll transfer you over.”
2 minutes later
Source: "Can I help you?"
Guy: "Yo. I need some information."
Source: "About?"
Guy: "Who defeated Honda and Blanka in SF2? Also, how powerful is Sodom?"
Source: “Let me see what I can find. Please hold.”
Elevator music plays for 10 minutes
Source: "Fei-Long defeated them. Blanka almost had him with his biting attacks, but Fei-Long finished him with his flame kick. It was great to see. Sodom is really powerful in the story. He’s written as a joke because he’s too powerful for the others to handle. Even Akuma."
Guy; "Really? Awesome. I’ve been looking for the official statement forever. It’s offical, right?"
Source: "Yes, it’s official. It’s in my rare Super Street Fighter 2 strategy guide. I can provide scans if you don’t believe me, but you should trust me."
Guy: "It’s ok. I see no reason why it wouldn’t be real."
Source: "Well, you know now! Fun-Fact: Fei-Long asked both Honda and Blanka to play a role in his new movie. The actual plot didn’t mention it."
Guy: "THAT’S AWESOME!! I can’t wait to tell everyone else about it. You should join our discussions."
Source: "That’s forbidden. I can get in serious trouble if the information trail leads back to me, because Capcom will have to change things around."
Guy: "Whoa. I had no idea."
Source: "Yeah, Capcom takes this serious. I can’t guarantee my own safety if you expose me. Or even your safety. Please keep this between us."
Guy: Don’t worry. I won’t."
Source: "Thank you. I have to get off the phone now before someone starts listening in. Bye."
Guy: “Bye.”
Goes to the forums to spew more bullshit
I really imagine the convo going like that…
@Ultima You’re not the only one who enjoyed story. Despite it’s length, and it’s less than stellar art quality, I enjoyed how cohesive it was and how some of the characters developed. The sensible thing to do is to reserve judgement on the full story mode until after we’ve played through it in June. Only then, we’ll see if Ono really did take the story content to heart, as he promised the fans.
@Cipher So you not only fail to provide us with your source. And you also mention that the Street Fighter Wikia page states that both TTTB and all other Aftermaths and OVAs are “non-canon”. Seriously? Any wikipedia page is NOT a credible source. You gotta do better than that.
How about you stop acting like a little kid, and just give us SOLID EVIDENCE that defends your statement. Otherwise, you’ve got no support to your arguement. You think you’re gonna make @Daemos cry with weak arguments like that? You’re only embarrassing yourself. Honestly, we’re just waiting for the inevitable “Screw you guys, I’m leaving” post.
Welcome! There’s been a bit of bad blood around lately, but none of that is particularly important. Now, about your post…
No, I actually like them too. My favorite was FANG’s (because FANG), Nash’s (SO MANY QUESTIONS), and Dhalsim’s (YO ORO!).
I’m not necessarily calling her that because she’s stronger than other characters, but because she’s portrayed as functionally perfect. She’s rich, powerful, everyone is friends with her, and has no relevant weaknesses or personal obstacles to provide conflict (which is her main difference from Alpha 3). She just goes around and does shit because she feels like it with no sense of tension or value. I hope Oro rolls around in Season 2 and knocks her on her ass, proving me wrong, but as of now she has no real problems.
It’s basically a playable version of the prophecy of Necalli. According to legend, he’s gonna devour-our Ryu, Dhalsim, and Bison in some capacity. It’s possible he may kill Bison, and/or less importantly to many, Dhalsim. His devouring of Ryu is probably just some SNH shit.
No, he only appears in Nash’s story. He is very likely the boy Balrog rescued in his SF4/SSF4 endings (see spoiler), and we may get some more details once Balrog releases. He seems important, but we don’t have the info yet. Worth noting that UDON actually mentions that kid in the World Warrior Encyclopedia they released recently, so he might be important.
With that in mind, I have a question.
Has it ever been made explicit exactly what Abel and Seth are?
It seems like there are two possibilities.
A. Seth and the other Shadaloo Androids are flesh and blood beings that are grown, and then they are implanted with various cybernetics that give them their robotic appearance. Abel is simply an incomplete one of these that never received any cybernetic implants.
B. Seth and the Shadaloo Androids are robots. And Abel is one of these that has received a kind of artificial skin covering his body that makes him appear human. Making him the only one that’s actually complete.
Now, I would have assumed that A was far more likely. However, Abel has an Alt. Costume in SFxTK that suggests that B is actually the case. Now, that’s an alt costume, and it’s in SFxTK, making it double non-canon.
But, like was said, just because it’s non-canon doesn’t mean it’s doesn’t hint at what actually is canon.