Valjean is a Mayor, likes his daughter very much and lifts very heavy things.
Should probably get into the Pro Wrestling business
Wasn’t there a confirmation in some post-3rd strike thing that he’s black? I could have sworn I read something one of our translator bros had posted here. Hmm
Yeah that rings a bell to me
I always interpreted him as black as London does have a big black community. If he was from Manchester or Birmingham then he could be considered Indian/paki. SF4 made him look more black. Thank God that Capcom draw their characters more racially plausible. (Pullum looked more Asian than Arab, Vega doesn’t look Spanish etc).
I always thought that Rose looked more Arab/Amazigh (for those who don’t know what Amazigh is, they’re the original people who lived in N.Africa before Arab settlers came in) than european. Then again Italy does have historical links with N.Africa so maybe she does have some Arab within her.
Another thing I’m wondering, is it true that Elena was intended to Brazilian and Sean was American because early magazine scans mentioned a “capiorea Brazilian fighter” and the first part of Elena’s NG stage resembled a river shape typical of the Amazon. I’ll try to find that magazine scans in the meantime.
Go down the thread and you’ll see a Brazilian magazine scans which I put through Google Translate. The interviewer asked the game planner if SF3 will have any relation to past SF games to which the game planner answers that only Ryu and Ken are returning and they are currently designing a Brazilian Capoeria fighter.
Not only does this raise questions, it also debunks the rumour that Ryu and Ken weren’t going to be in the game. Not only did the 2 of them appear in the 1996 E3 trailer but no-one could’ve possibly known that they weren’t in as game testing was more different. Not only that but they couldn’t possibly program 2 characters that late in development. Looking at the development it seemed that Elena, Sean, Necro and Oro were the last characters added in.
About Dudley, Elena and Rose
Dudley- I ever thought he was just supposed to be a black man in 100% british gentleman traditional style.
In particular i think they used as inspiration real life african-origin boxers Chris Eubank (elegant clothes style) and Evander Holyfield (face, build)
In particular Holyfield made extra sense as back then he just defeated Tyson (Balrog), making Dudley a cool successor for the boxing char role
I know why some can see the “indian” thing due past colonial link, but reality is that the “indian looking” Duddley was more an Ikeno’s artworks thing in later SF3 chapters
while Kinu’s Dudley in first SF3 look very african-origin
Elena- in her case is very possible she was supposed to be Brazil/Capoeira easy combination, then when they moved to Brazil for Sean they took the chance to use that (capoeira girl) concept for an african char.
Wich is legit as Capoeira itself origin came from african tribal traditions of the slaves
Must also be said that while “capoeira girl” idea may have started as brazilian char, Elena herself as concept likely was african since begin, as the anime character they ripped-off was the north african acrobat Nadia from “Secret of Blue Water”.
This link is showed not only in pure design/attitude but also in various elements/straight hints Capcom did as the puppy lion in her ending, the blond female friend or her moving from Africa to France
Consider that most of SF3 char designs were heavy direct rip-off of anime/mangas
Rose- Tbh as italian i see nothing of “north african” in her, consider also that while is true north africa got a (minor) impact on Italy, it was limited to relatively small areas in the far south, while Rose is from Genoa (north-west)
I see Rose as designed to look italian, with her clothes/style as a link to Italy being the country of fashion design clothes
On other hand she got some arts/endings with a more folkloristic “fortune teller” style, wich give some gypsy vibe… wich itself may link to Romania, to more far east origins… but again, a minor factor on a char overall designed to be italian.
Example her skin is very pale (compatible with north italy), while gypsies tend to have a much darker tone
To be clear, not like i’m pushing to have her as Italian at all cost either (i will have been ok with her as romanian gypsy), as i will much prefer another rep for Italy, but it is what it is
[/details]
On Dudley, I agree with you completely. It’s different interpretations by the artists. Elena was made African because the game designers wanted a African character just that kinu is a better artist. I wouldn’t be shocked if Necro was inspired by Omega Red. They both stretch and are russian.
For Rose: As a person of N.African descent Rise looks very Mediterranean. In SF4+5 it’s obvious she’s S.Europe with her European style but her first appearances look more N.African. If you look at Amazigh people you can see they have the same facial build as Rose.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.pinterest.com/amp/pin/502221795931983189/
It’s a common joke in the Arab fandom to joke that Rose looks like Gaddafi’s daughter. Apart from the blond hair Gaddafi’s daughter has, she’s a slight match with Rose. But yes, she looks Italian much more than Arab and all in all Rose is a great character. All in all my comment wasn’t worded that well.
Necro is likely inspired on russian anime villain Ivan (Necro true name is Ilia, kinda closer)
Notice aside bald/nose/pale skin also Necro’s face paint cross the same eye of Ivan’s scar
I also ever thought they took heavy inspiration from Evangelion Sachiel lines for his design (mostly proportions)
http://www.collectiblesforeverythingnow.com/pics/152223839832_1.jpg
The white “face” with long “nose”, the wide shoulder span with long ass arms… can definitely see that adapted to Necro’s human design
Count that HUGE part of SF3 was straight took from japanese anime/mangas
Gill- Gemini/Saga from Saint Seiya (original Gill name was even “Gemini”)
Urien- Souther from Hokuto no Ken
Yun&Yang- two guys from Gundam anime
Elena- Nadia
Makoto- Akane from Ranma1/2
Q- Robot Detective K
Remy- Got inspirations from some Saint Seiya characters
Twelve- i don’t remember wich now, but i’m sure i’ve see it in some anime too LOL
The ones with western inspiration were Dudley(Eubank/Holyfield), Alex(Hulk Hogan/Stallone), Hugo (Andrè the Giant) and Oro (Helio Gracie/Yoda)
About Rose idk, “mediterranean” look is an italian thing too as we’re in the middle of it… i’m olive enough to be the living proof =)
Rose in SFA to me just look like she got classic olive skin (wich is common in Italy, Spain, Greece, N.Africa etc… as you say the mediterranean area)
One thing for sure if anything is that original Rose from SFA looked far more italian/mediterranean than light eyes/more pink skin SF4 Rose, who remind more a central european look (compatible with north italy) if we go on colors
That physically, if we go more on style ignoring the playable version (fashion exagerate design) and focus on the rest of her imagery, she’s mostly an anime version of the typical image of 800’s hot gitana (spanish gypsies) fortune teller, with heavy make up, tits out, tarrots and a crystal ball
from there we can think how/from where works the gypsy influence, but good luck at track that =)
Was that even a rumor? its probably more of a misinformation or a speculation rather than a rumor. It had an elaborated detail about fans emailing Capcom of this and that. Can’t remember the source of the information. I have been reading the thread it did mention all about Capcom said the other wise. There could be a mistranslated and misunderstanding from interviewer, author and etc involve in those issues like the others said. Correct me if I’m wrong guys.
Like the reason why KO enable hitting in SF4 was taken down in another update. There where multiple information.
The Brazilian article indeed says that they want to develop a Brazilian female capoeira fighter.
However, CFN says they wanted to make Elena African from the start. Since she had long legs, capoeira fitted her figure the most. They also say that finding material for capoeira was not an easy task, because it wasn’t like today, when you can simply search for footage on the Internet and always find something; moreover, capoeira itself wasn’t so popular and widespread as today is. As soon as they found a capoeira gym, they went there and instantly confirmed their choice.
I’m more inclined to believe the Japanese, honestly.
Incidentally, the same article says nothing about Dudley’s ethnicity, simply stating that they wanted to do a representative of the “gentlemen’s sport”.
Neither they say anything about Sean, instead clarifying that he wasn’t present in the original draft and they were too late to include an unfinished Hugo. The game would’ve had too few characters for an initial roster, so they had the idea for a “joke character” with a clear handicap compared to the others, and voila Sean was made. Again, no specification about his nationality.
Also, I never doubted Rose’s nationality. So long is Italy’s history of invasions and raids by practically everyone that she could be very believably Italian even if she were a black blonde 
And don’t forget that she’s heavily based on Lisa Lisa,
so you’re discussing the believability and ethnicity of characters designed by Japanese people to resemble other characters designed by other Japanese people to maybe vaguely mirror some stereotype they may have of people from other ethnicities. Come on, you know it’s a waste of time.
To be honest, the impact of North Africa upon Italy is far from being minor. Italian language still has many words of Arabic origin (ragazzo, “boy”, from Medieval Moroccan Arabic رقاص raqqāṣ, “courier, postman”), and let’s not forget that Southern Italians got mixed with Northerners various times during history. The last “invasion” occurred throughout the 1900, when Southern workers moved up seeking job offers in Northern factories. Genoa wasn’t a secluded island, after all. The Genoese gladly traveled, or so I’ve heard.
Furthermore, Southern Italy was conquered by Normans and Spain as well… So a blonde Sicilian is anything but a rarity, despite the traditional stereotype of Southern Italians as black-haired, black-moustachioed heavily suntanned men.
I’ve never understood this “Gypsy” angle (that UDON inexplicably followed and exaggerated), because fortunetelling is certainly not a Romani exclusive (although they’re stereotyped as such, yes I know). And Romanis (aka Gypsies) aren’t exclusively Romanians. Many Romanis then moved to Italy from Romania and this sort of created an equation in Italians’ perception that this was the case, but… see below.
That in turn would’ve ended offending Romanians, albeit unfairly from their part. Romanians hate Gypsies, and they generally hate to be associated with them, sad as this may be.
Honestly, that costume reminded me more of the typical dresses worn in Venice during the 16th Century, still popular in the city during carnival:
.JPG){kind=link}
Lastly, the fact Rose is Genoese is due to a clear reference to Isao Takahata’s anime 3000 Leagues in Search of Mother. That anime was so popular in Japan that it constituted (and still constitutes, just look at how Maggio is dressed in CFN!), in fact, the primary source of stereotypes and perceptions that the Japanese had of Italians until JoJo arrived.
Even SNK’s Marco Rossi and Fiorina Germi came from it. Yeah, I know she’s supposed to be spelled FioLina, but they’re Japanese.
In fact, Marco Rossi and Fiolina Germi come from a double reference, to 3000 Leagues AND Hayao Miyazaki’s Porco Rosso, who also had a Marco (Pagot, a colleague and friend of Miyazaki) and Fio, likely a reference to the original 3000 Leagues’ Fiorina Peppino. SNK even turned 3000 Leagues Fiorina’s surname into the name of Fio’s teddy bear. Fio’s “Germi” surname came from renowned Genoese movie director Pietro Germi, well known in Japan as well.
@Cestus
I remember seeing a video called “who dat-Alex” that said he was design-wise, inspired by a member from Gun’N’Roses. Necro has similar mannerisms to Omega Red and given that Capcom was working on MVSF at the same time as SF3:2I, it’s highly plausible. Rose in A1/A2 looked more olive, like my skin colour.
For the user above, I remember reading that the Japanese rotoscoped footage of Capoeria fighters to help with animating Elena. For 12, I had a feeling he had some influence after I came across a image like that.
Yes. It has been said that SF3 originally wasn’t going to have ANY returning characters, and that Sean was meant to replace them.
And this doesn’t debunk that rumor at all. It just means the change could have happened earlier in development.
You easily could if those characters were just headswaps of a character you’d already programmed into the game. Which they were.
@Cestus @DarthEnder According to Akiman, when Alpha 2 was wrapping up development SF3 started to be worked on. Sakura was a concept (as in they wanted a school girl not the actual character) for SF3 but was switched to Alpha 2 as the higher-ups wanted a non-traditional character to contrast Nash and Rose. With that info in mind and the September 1996 E3 seems to convey that Ryu and Ken must have been added earlier, so the “no returning characters” rumour has little water. Notice how in the E3 trailer, Good fighter was playing with footage of only Dudley, Alex, Ibuki and Yun along with Ryu+Ken. Ergo, Sean could possibly have been one of the last characters but Elena, Necro and Oro must have come late as Necro doesn’t have Effie with him, Oro is missing animations that would become put in SF3:2I/3S, Yang is a sprite clone and Hugo was dummied out.
TLDR; SF3NG was a rushed game. And it’s likely that Sean was a resprite of Ryu.
Kinda off topic
Hi something about Linn Kurosawa, Since there was some talk with regarding her license ownership from the extra costume thread…
Looks like
I was kinda late to notice this this was late December last year that NECA was planning to release Her and Dutch.
Since the game title is under a brand name
Now we know the reason why we ended with sa tribute inspired character like the devs of Rage of Dragons did.
I think, given how weirdly energetic and bouncy the model’s idle animation is, it’s much more likely that Ken and Ryu are resprites of Sean.
Rushed? it’s technically designed in mechanics, I must say it was the most technical compared to SF2 and SFZ before SFZ3 while both characters illustrations and the animations was from scratch.
Capcom staff in SF dev were delicate with SF3 matters there was a story about Hugo why he was already been 2ndimpact but scrapped later.
Technical and design stand point… if were talking about “rushed” that would be the first line of crossover series… like Xmen versus SF and CVS1.
@The_Shakunetsu I do think, like SFA1, SF3:NG was probably a bit rushed. The terrible soundfont (not to the OST is bad but the sounds they used was low-fi) and wierd presentation makes me think this. The extremely short amount of time it took for a update was quite surprising at the time. Like I said several characters are missing key parts that 2I would add. Don’t think I have something against SF3 because that was my favourite era in SF. It’s true that Capcom took special care when making SF3:NG which resulted in a game with a unique charisma which was solidified by its intriguing characters and hidden dark undertones.
Everyone knows about XMVSF’s development hell. CVS1 wasn’t rushed, it was just a very boring and lazy game from the start. TBH the CVS series didn’t even accomplish it’s own goal which was to represent fighting games of each company. Not SF Vs SNK (feat Morrigan and 2 non-SF characters)
CvS2 has Eagle, and thus is perfect in every way!!
SvC probably did a better job showcasing the range of Capcom characters because you had the likes of Demitri, Firebrand/Red Arremer, and Zero. With the CvS games, many Capcom sprites were reused from Alpha/SF3, so that’s why the roster is so skewed.
@ES_Curse
Eagle in CVS2 is the reason why that game isn’t perfect, Cammy is the better UK rep. I always saw it as this:
SVC: more range of Capcom characters like MM, RE, DMC
CVS: Street Fighter, Final Fight, Rival Schools, Darkstalkers and a few Warzard/Power Stone. The only MM characters I can think would suit CVS would be classic MM characters (in other words, MM and Bass.)
I still can’t get over that Morrigan sprite in Darkstalkers in CVS.
@Cestus This explains Alex’s design influences from Guns’N’Roses as well as why Alex was effective as a new protagonist for SF3: