All jokes aside, that video does illustrate part of why I don’t like the Dorai as Q idea. I’ll try to be as coherent as I can and not foaming at the mouth with “NYET”:
-In this case Ryu & Chun Li are taking their lives in a new direction, only for it to be uprooted by a ghost of the past. You can match that to how in SFIV & SFV, Chun Li has moved on from doing heroism to avenge her father – she admitted she likes being a cop because of helping people. She also now is taking care of Li Fen and I ABSOLUTELY love that idea, the cooking misadventure was adorable and what I want out of their relationship. They’re both from crazy situations in a crazy world, so having little everyday adventures alongside what should be everyday adventures turning into something fun is a nice change. There’s so much potential, I don’t want her to have that grind to a halt.
-Chun Li has to return to the state of fretting over her father’s fate, leaving behind narrative progress only to return to a plot point that she’s only recently *narrowly *escaped from. It also has the issue of “why is he making a connection now of all times.” What’s he been up to for all those decades? I don’t find such an idea narratively satisfying in the least. Especially if he’s a Shadaloo product that somehow got lost in-universe for like 10 years or so? (What age did Dorai first disappear from Chun Li’s life?
-Q ceases to be his own character and becomes an updated look for an NPC and then, had to be dealt with. He probably has to die after a tired mind control themed fight and dies going “I always loved you, my daughter.” Again, with the narrative, they can’t have a happy ending where he learns to live as he is and still be in Chun Li and Li Fen’s life. With the tragedy angle, they’ll most likely go for the death angle or waste everyone’s time, have him appear and uproot her life, but live in the shadows, “always watching over her” or something then Chun Li has to return to freshly mourning him again either due to him leaving her again or dying. Yay.
-I want Q’s inroduction to the story to bring along new elements since we’re in a post-Shadaloo story for the first time in a LONG time and in a time when the narrative and lore are getting more of a focus than they ever have. IF Q is G, let’s see if he’s a broken man by SF3S as a measure of Karma, if he’s a victim of G, let’s see what that can do. If he’s an ally or even connected, that’ll give us a new, and deeper connection to the Illuminati. It’s sorely needed since we know so little about them in comparison to Shadaloo. Heck we’ve had info docs on their living quarters, operational structure and even the fact that they can enjoy benefits and arcade machines in facilities. We know nada about those Illuminated folks. One of the books in their bible is the book of Mahara or something, I wanna know more about their prophecies and such. What are their everyday lives like? Is Urien to the greater populace some reclusive, Mediterranean dreamboat zillionaire?
OK, it’s time I make my presence known! I stumbled onto here after accidently clicking on a image that had concept art of “Hugo” back in NG (that concept design that looked like Fokker from Power Stone) back in June 2017 and I’ve been hooked ever since. All of you bring up some good points and it has been entertaining so I decided why not!!!
Now, on the Illuminati that @Shockdingo went on about. It’s been strongly implied that they have ties to Mediterranean regions (Gill’s NG stage takes place off the coast of Libya, closest my country will ever get to representation; 2I in Egypt and 3S in Greece/Libya). This makes sense IRL as one of the popular theories at the time was that the Loomynarty wanted the Arab countries destroyed because they developing at a fast rate. Gill’s intentions could be traced to the humanist concept of “quality of life” to actively seek a life free from hardships and natural balance. The Illuminati in SF seem to have their beliefs more rooted in modern “religions” if you could call humanism that. This “quality of life” is what made Gill take Kolin in, Necro and the events of SF3.
I also hear that a certain @Phantom_Miria has a good taste in characters:
Better to listen using YT app than in Google browser. An adventurous theme but not melancholy enough for a game that has a more sad and intense OST.
and I never wanted also Ryu to be in a relationship. Ryu is committed and dedicated not in a person or a motto of like saving the world other.
Ryu is committed and dedicated to self improvement with a strong note of reminder to avoid the path of Akuma.
I don’t even want him in a way to have all of a sudden have a looking for apprentice to mentor even in old age. The only way of is some sort of calling from Ken’s side and favor that would drastically need him because Ken is a essential to Ryu not Sakura and Ken’s family knows that Ryu is essential or probably most talked within Ken’s family. So the only way to change Ryu is through Ken or Gouki the same way it Gouken’s shaped Ryu before throught circumstance and consequence not Sakura, Sagat, Oro and Bison.
I have a question: Is there any canon resource that answers whether or not Dudley is Afro-British or Punjabi? His physical characteristics go either way, and the “English Gentleman” trait is so strong that you don’t really see hints of another ethnicity in his character.
Wasn’t there a confirmation in some post-3rd strike thing that he’s black? I could have sworn I read something one of our translator bros had posted here. Hmm
I always interpreted him as black as London does have a big black community. If he was from Manchester or Birmingham then he could be considered Indian/paki. SF4 made him look more black. Thank God that Capcom draw their characters more racially plausible. (Pullum looked more Asian than Arab, Vega doesn’t look Spanish etc).
I always thought that Rose looked more Arab/Amazigh (for those who don’t know what Amazigh is, they’re the original people who lived in N.Africa before Arab settlers came in) than european. Then again Italy does have historical links with N.Africa so maybe she does have some Arab within her.
Another thing I’m wondering, is it true that Elena was intended to Brazilian and Sean was American because early magazine scans mentioned a “capiorea Brazilian fighter” and the first part of Elena’s NG stage resembled a river shape typical of the Amazon. I’ll try to find that magazine scans in the meantime.
Go down the thread and you’ll see a Brazilian magazine scans which I put through Google Translate. The interviewer asked the game planner if SF3 will have any relation to past SF games to which the game planner answers that only Ryu and Ken are returning and they are currently designing a Brazilian Capoeria fighter.
Not only does this raise questions, it also debunks the rumour that Ryu and Ken weren’t going to be in the game. Not only did the 2 of them appear in the 1996 E3 trailer but no-one could’ve possibly known that they weren’t in as game testing was more different. Not only that but they couldn’t possibly program 2 characters that late in development. Looking at the development it seemed that Elena, Sean, Necro and Oro were the last characters added in.
Dudley- I ever thought he was just supposed to be a black man in 100% british gentleman traditional style.
In particular i think they used as inspiration real life african-origin boxers Chris Eubank (elegant clothes style) and Evander Holyfield (face, build)
In particular Holyfield made extra sense as back then he just defeated Tyson (Balrog), making Dudley a cool successor for the boxing char role
I know why some can see the “indian” thing due past colonial link, but reality is that the “indian looking” Duddley was more an Ikeno’s artworks thing in later SF3 chapters
while Kinu’s Dudley in first SF3 look very african-origin
Elena- in her case is very possible she was supposed to be Brazil/Capoeira easy combination, then when they moved to Brazil for Sean they took the chance to use that (capoeira girl) concept for an african char.
Wich is legit as Capoeira itself origin came from african tribal traditions of the slaves
Must also be said that while “capoeira girl” idea may have started as brazilian char, Elena herself as concept likely was african since begin, as the anime character they ripped-off was the north african acrobat Nadia from “Secret of Blue Water”.
This link is showed not only in pure design/attitude but also in various elements/straight hints Capcom did as the puppy lion in her ending, the blond female friend or her moving from Africa to France
Consider that most of SF3 char designs were heavy direct rip-off of anime/mangas
Rose- Tbh as italian i see nothing of “north african” in her, consider also that while is true north africa got a (minor) impact on Italy, it was limited to relatively small areas in the far south, while Rose is from Genoa (north-west)
I see Rose as designed to look italian, with her clothes/style as a link to Italy being the country of fashion design clothes
On other hand she got some arts/endings with a more folkloristic “fortune teller” style, wich give some gypsy vibe… wich itself may link to Romania, to more far east origins… but again, a minor factor on a char overall designed to be italian.
Example her skin is very pale (compatible with north italy), while gypsies tend to have a much darker tone
To be clear, not like i’m pushing to have her as Italian at all cost either (i will have been ok with her as romanian gypsy), as i will much prefer another rep for Italy, but it is what it is
On Dudley, I agree with you completely. It’s different interpretations by the artists. Elena was made African because the game designers wanted a African character just that kinu is a better artist. I wouldn’t be shocked if Necro was inspired by Omega Red. They both stretch and are russian.
For Rose: As a person of N.African descent Rise looks very Mediterranean. In SF4+5 it’s obvious she’s S.Europe with her European style but her first appearances look more N.African. If you look at Amazigh people you can see they have the same facial build as Rose.
It’s a common joke in the Arab fandom to joke that Rose looks like Gaddafi’s daughter. Apart from the blond hair Gaddafi’s daughter has, she’s a slight match with Rose. But yes, she looks Italian much more than Arab and all in all Rose is a great character. All in all my comment wasn’t worded that well.
Necro is likely inspired on russian anime villain Ivan (Necro true name is Ilia, kinda closer)
Notice aside bald/nose/pale skin also Necro’s face paint cross the same eye of Ivan’s scar
I also ever thought they took heavy inspiration from Evangelion Sachiel lines for his design (mostly proportions)
The white “face” with long “nose”, the wide shoulder span with long ass arms… can definitely see that adapted to Necro’s human design
Count that HUGE part of SF3 was straight took from japanese anime/mangas
Gill- Gemini/Saga from Saint Seiya (original Gill name was even “Gemini”)
Urien- Souther from Hokuto no Ken
Yun&Yang- two guys from Gundam anime
Elena- Nadia
Makoto- Akane from Ranma1/2
Q- Robot Detective K
Remy- Got inspirations from some Saint Seiya characters
Twelve- i don’t remember wich now, but i’m sure i’ve see it in some anime too LOL
The ones with western inspiration were Dudley(Eubank/Holyfield), Alex(Hulk Hogan/Stallone), Hugo (Andrè the Giant) and Oro (Helio Gracie/Yoda)
About Rose idk, “mediterranean” look is an italian thing too as we’re in the middle of it… i’m olive enough to be the living proof =)
Rose in SFA to me just look like she got classic olive skin (wich is common in Italy, Spain, Greece, N.Africa etc… as you say the mediterranean area)
One thing for sure if anything is that original Rose from SFA looked far more italian/mediterranean than light eyes/more pink skin SF4 Rose, who remind more a central european look (compatible with north italy) if we go on colors
That physically, if we go more on style ignoring the playable version (fashion exagerate design) and focus on the rest of her imagery, she’s mostly an anime version of the typical image of 800’s hot gitana (spanish gypsies) fortune teller, with heavy make up, tits out, tarrots and a crystal ball
from there we can think how/from where works the gypsy influence, but good luck at track that =)
Was that even a rumor? its probably more of a misinformation or a speculation rather than a rumor. It had an elaborated detail about fans emailing Capcom of this and that. Can’t remember the source of the information. I have been reading the thread it did mention all about Capcom said the other wise. There could be a mistranslated and misunderstanding from interviewer, author and etc involve in those issues like the others said. Correct me if I’m wrong guys.
Like the reason why KO enable hitting in SF4 was taken down in another update. There where multiple information.
The Brazilian article indeed says that they want to develop a Brazilian female capoeira fighter.
However, CFN says they wanted to make Elena African from the start. Since she had long legs, capoeira fitted her figure the most. They also say that finding material for capoeira was not an easy task, because it wasn’t like today, when you can simply search for footage on the Internet and always find something; moreover, capoeira itself wasn’t so popular and widespread as today is. As soon as they found a capoeira gym, they went there and instantly confirmed their choice.
I’m more inclined to believe the Japanese, honestly.
Incidentally, the same article says nothing about Dudley’s ethnicity, simply stating that they wanted to do a representative of the “gentlemen’s sport”.
Neither they say anything about Sean, instead clarifying that he wasn’t present in the original draft and they were too late to include an unfinished Hugo. The game would’ve had too few characters for an initial roster, so they had the idea for a “joke character” with a clear handicap compared to the others, and voila Sean was made. Again, no specification about his nationality.
Also, I never doubted Rose’s nationality. So long is Italy’s history of invasions and raids by practically everyone that she could be very believably Italian even if she were a black blonde
And don’t forget that she’s heavily based on Lisa Lisa,
so you’re discussing the believability and ethnicity of characters designed by Japanese people to resemble other characters designed by other Japanese people to maybe vaguely mirror some stereotype they may have of people from other ethnicities. Come on, you know it’s a waste of time.
To be honest, the impact of North Africa upon Italy is far from being minor. Italian language still has many words of Arabic origin (ragazzo, “boy”, from Medieval Moroccan Arabic رقاص raqqāṣ, “courier, postman”), and let’s not forget that Southern Italians got mixed with Northerners various times during history. The last “invasion” occurred throughout the 1900, when Southern workers moved up seeking job offers in Northern factories. Genoa wasn’t a secluded island, after all. The Genoese gladly traveled, or so I’ve heard.
Furthermore, Southern Italy was conquered by Normans and Spain as well… So a blonde Sicilian is anything but a rarity, despite the traditional stereotype of Southern Italians as black-haired, black-moustachioed heavily suntanned men.
I’ve never understood this “Gypsy” angle (that UDON inexplicably followed and exaggerated), because fortunetelling is certainly not a Romani exclusive (although they’re stereotyped as such, yes I know). And Romanis (aka Gypsies) aren’t exclusively Romanians. Many Romanis then moved to Italy from Romania and this sort of created an equation in Italians’ perception that this was the case, but… see below.
That in turn would’ve ended offending Romanians, albeit unfairly from their part. Romanians hate Gypsies, and they generally hate to be associated with them, sad as this may be.
Lastly, the fact Rose is Genoese is due to a clear reference to Isao Takahata’s anime 3000 Leagues in Search of Mother. That anime was so popular in Japan that it constituted (and still constitutes, just look at how Maggio is dressed in CFN!), in fact, the primary source of stereotypes and perceptions that the Japanese had of Italians until JoJo arrived.
Even SNK’s Marco Rossi and Fiorina Germi came from it. Yeah, I know she’s supposed to be spelled FioLina, but they’re Japanese.
In fact, Marco Rossi and Fiolina Germi come from a double reference, to 3000 Leagues AND Hayao Miyazaki’s Porco Rosso, who also had a Marco (Pagot, a colleague and friend of Miyazaki) and Fio, likely a reference to the original 3000 Leagues’ Fiorina Peppino. SNK even turned 3000 Leagues Fiorina’s surname into the name of Fio’s teddy bear. Fio’s “Germi” surname came from renowned Genoese movie director Pietro Germi, well known in Japan as well.
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