The thing about CE Vega, yeah damage and priority wall dives but having no anti-air automatically puts him at a huge disadvantage in alot of fights. If you cant AA then you cant stop them from constantly jumping at you. You CAN Air to Air them but remember CE Vegas Air to Air is weak because no Claw and theyre all kick physicals. ST Vega can stop almost all air games with his air to airs. Jump strong especially since it hits at that angle when theyre just jumping, a quick “get back down” attack!
If your playing CE Vega you would have to impliment backflip in your strategy to get away some of the time. I personally like CE Vega over ST and have been as of recent been playing him (offline) ones not exceptionally better than the other but I do give the slight turn to ST Vega. All and all it depends on preference.
i fought ce vegas standing normals lp,lk,mp,mk could all be used as anti airs, am i wrong?
The first and last time I entered an AE tournament was in Chicago a few years back. I played ST Ryu and Watson won that tourney. I have not entered or even seen an AE machine since. AFAIK, there are no arcades in norcal that have AE so I don’t know how tournament results for a non-existent game got posted. The only thing I can think of is that San Jose Golfland does have the original CE game and has held a tournament for it that Ricky won. But that’s simply CE and not AE.
so…no help with thawk?
Not reliable AA’s!
From what I know cr. jb x3. std. jb…dp + lp should work from what I 've seen.
Sorry but I dont play Hawk and most ppl dont either!:wonder:
Correction but there was a Japanese player playing Hawk at Evolution you may wanna look up some of his match vids from last years Evo.
The fact that he has a slight weakness is negated by the fact that he has many DOMINATING moves that probably should not exist. I still think you just haven’t seen a good CE Dic, because I don’t understand how you can honestly tell me he’s not the best in the game. I had the misfortune of watching top Japanese players (the best old school SF players in the world) get massacred by Yuu Vega doing one move (Psycho Crusher). He didn’t even need to use the re-dizzy. Tama (who doesn’t even play Dic!) racked up sixty wins in a row against good competition by just abusing Scissor Kicks and Psycho Crushers.
That was Chikyuu, and while he is hella good at weird characters in other games, his T.Hawk isn’t so hot. By his own admission, he doesn’t even play ST for real. Check out some matches with Toutanki or Mayakon. Those foos are BEASTS.
That’s the only combo you need with Hawk, but I think j.Forward (medium kick) is a better cross-up. However, Hawk is a very, very difficult character to play. You’ve gotta be extremely good (and your execution has to be flawless) just to win half the time. :sad:
So over the weekend i had a friend of mine over. His name is Takou. Yep a god damn Jap. And guess what he can read the Yoga Book. And being that he is a big fan of ST he was really intrested.
About 15min in he says “Wat the fuk”. Then he begins to show me how Ce.Sagat has ublockables. Yep that is right. Unblockables. Any DP,Tiger or Tiger Knee he does as a reversal is unblockable. That is right unblockable.
It gets worse. There are things called Zeroframe moves that have a 50% unblockable atribute. Such as HF.Gief’s PPP at close rage. Many of blankas moves. Such as the ball if done right. That would explain why some ppl say you have to block the ball a certain way. But the truth is you can only block it 50% of the time.
Maybe NKI can give us a translation of this.
HSF is BULLSHIT!!
Isn’t something simpler (if you can actually get d+hp to hit as crossup) like splash, cr. lk->hp uppercut preferable as it already is an auto-dizzy?
Jabs into rising hawk/360 is probably easier to hit confirm. meh
If someone can give us more info on these unblockables/whatever CigarBob is talking about that would be great!!!
CigarBob - somehow you missed this in the ST thread last month…
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2918950#post2918950
And this…
http://nki.combovideos.com/dc.html
(Scroll down to “Notes for Row 1”.)
You want to do multiple cr.Jabs so that you can hit confrim. If it hits, finish the combo into uppercut. If it’s blocked, do safe 360 (or 720 if you have meter).
There’s really not much else to it. If CE or HF Sagat does a reversal Tiger Uppercut or Tiger Knee, it’s unblockable. Reversal Tiger Shots are randomly unblockable 50% of the time. Note that this 50% unblockable attribute is completely unrelated to the 50% unblockables (like Blanka’s) that CigarBob mentioned above. See the link I posted for an explanation.
Oh wow…I never thought this thread would yield this much GREAT INFO…hehehe…thanks NKI, Cigarbob and the others…keep up the good work…evil Bison laugh
[quote=NKI]
The fact that he has a slight weakness is negated by the fact that he has many DOMINATING moves that probably should not exist. I still think you just haven’t seen a good CE Dic, because I don’t understand how you can honestly tell me he’s not the best in the game. I had the misfortune of watching top Japanese players (the best old school SF players in the world) get massacred by Yuu Vega doing one move (Psycho Crusher). He didn’t even need to use the re-dizzy. Tama (who doesn’t even play Dic!) racked up sixty wins in a row against good competition by just abusing Scissor Kicks and Psycho Crushers.
Once again I never said anything about him “not being the best or how he ranks in the game” Im merely pointing out that he’s not as godlike or unstoppable as people make him out to be. I havent seen good “Baker” players? Your refering solely to the Japanese from what I gather…and yes I’ve seen all types of Japanese win and lose with this character. If you dont know Psychocrusher gets beat out by things like “lariat” or “jumping foward” by ChunLi. Until you can confirm what charcters were used playing against Yuu then it really doesnt mean anything. A- Blanka’s the best in CVS2 but there are characters that fight him well. He’s very good, the best in the game unarguradbly but not to the point where he can “Run” over the entire cast for free, and thats my point. CE Baker isnt “As” dominant as people make him to be.
[quote=NKI]
That was Chikyuu, and while he is hella good at weird characters in other games, his T.Hawk isn’t so hot. By his own admission, he doesn’t even play ST for real. Check out some matches with Toutanki or Mayakon. Those foos are BEASTS.
As one ChunLi player to another I think this guy counters her I dunno what do you think? It seems like she has no answer to jump jab which leads to free tick 360. Hawk dive as well. I mean she can definetly win but I somehow dont think that her fight with Hawk is relatively in her favor. Agree or disagree?
If you’re playing against a crappy CE Dic who just does random full screen Fierce Psycho Crusher, then yeah, Chun can beat it with j.Forward, but I’m talking about when you’re playing a good CE Dic who knocks you down and does ambiguous cross-up Psycho Crusher (JAB is the best…not Fierce). If you know anyone who owns the Yoga Book Hyper, take a look at the hitboxes on CE Dic’s Psycho Crusher, and it will be immediately obvious why that move is stupid good.
In case you don’t have access to the book, I’ll kick down some awesome ASCII art.
Where he can hit you is marked by a dash: -
Where you can hit him is marked by a zero: 0
The octothorp (#) is just filler space for my awesome ASCII art (forums won’t allow multiple consecutive blanks). # has no hitbox.
###-------------------------------------------###
##----------------------------------------------##
--------------------------000-----------------------
##----------------------------------------------##
###-------------------------------------------###
So you can forget about trying to reverse that. The worst part about it is that even if you guess RIGHT, you still take a good amount of block damage, and you still don’t get advantage. By the way, he is completely invincible when he is coming down from the Psycho Crusher.
I don’t think CE Dic is broken to the point where he needs to be banned, but he is pretty damn broken.
As for Chun vs. Hawk, I agree with you that it’s not an easy fight for Chun, especially if he gets in once. That’s pretty much the end of the round because her only two reversals (upkicks and Spinning Bird Kick) are useless against a good Hawk who is using the release method for his 360s.
She actually has plenty of defenses against his j.Jab (she can do Short or Forward upkicks, jump straight up Short, jump back Forward kick, etc). The problem is not getting baited by the dive.
hooray for CE Dic and his stupid hitbox
Pick the older Shoto’s against CE. Bison, or else CE. Guile, they can be played very well against CE. Bison. I cannot stress or argue the fact that CE. Bison is probably hands down the #1 best character in AE because he has way too many good options, but he does have matchup’s where he would not fair so well. Even in CE, he had problems fighting the shoto’s or Guile, actually, shoto’s in general can fight CE. Bison fairly well, as well as Guile.
However if your playing characters that are outside of Shoto/Guile, it’ll be more difficult for you.
I am pretty dissapointed that EVO never had this game in the roster. I am mainly a Guile player, and I use CE Guile for all of the reasons that make him good that you can think of. But, when I am forced to be playing Guile on ST it’s crap(weak) since he has been raped of everything made Guile top teir on CE that sucks. I mean for an example Thomas Osaki was known as one of the best Guile players in the U.S. during CE and HF, but when he played SSF2 even he had to play other characters, because Guile was one of the weakest characters of the game. My main point is that EVO should have Hyper SF2 so that a player can choose a character at it’s best or what they feel comfortable using out of all SF2 versions(freedom), rather than at it’s worst.
I hear you, I wouldn’t mind if Evo did actually hold a tournament for AE, instead of ST, personally I don’t like ST. Ryu and I prefer T. Ryu, so I think it would actually be quite interesting and fun to see that take place. I mean, this way everyone gets to pick their favorite version and pit them against the others and then see how it turns out, imo it would be successful.
Well people are complaining about 1 character that is supposedly "too broken"
Plus some people dont seem to like change. Dont get me wrong I like ST but its the same old shit, same counter matches, same matchups…nothings changed in over 10 years…
At least with AE theres more to work with because theres more variety in matchups.
Edit:
There was a tournament in Brooklyn sometime early 2004 the very first AE tourny in NY which was very fun Forgot the name of the guys running but it was basically a charity run tournament. Actually Aurtor was one of the guys who ran it.
It had 35 entrants for Anniverssary which is the biggest turnout for an AE tournament and basically it was held where you see film festivals and documentaries being held with the large projector screen. After every match you won you get a free shot of vodka from the bar…and I took every single one…lets just say this is why I called it the Druken Master results
NYC Anniverssary 35 players
1st. Jeron ST Vega/Cammy
2nd. Josh: Super ChunLi
3rd. Aurthor : ST DeeJay
4th.Flash Hyper Sagat ST Hawk
Texas Showdown 5 Edited
1st. Jumpsuit Jesse: ???
2nd. Buktooth: ST ChunLi
3rd. DarksydePhil:ST DeeJay
Random 8 on the break tournament
1st. Julian Robinson: CE Bison
ECC X
1st. DarksidePhil: DeeJay ???
T6 Canada
1st. Jeron: CE Bison/ ST ChunLi
2nd. ???(Canada player): CE Guile
3rd. Ricky O: O. Sagat
Anarcade tournament
1st. Jeron: CE Guile/ CE Bison
2nd. Shag: ST Balrog
MidWest 2K4
1st. Watson: ???
2nd. Choiboy: ST Ryu
M4
1st. Jeron: CE Guile
2nd. Justin W. ST Ryu
Edit: Added
MidWest Championship 2005
1st. Jesse Howard: O. Ken
2nd. Seth Killian: ST Honda/Rog
3rd. David Spence: ST Sim
4th. Jeron Grayson: ST Vega
[quote=JeRon]
"Plus some people dont seem to like change. "
You win the thread!!!:wgrin:
Well its about time for some change and HSF2 should be it.