I’m thinking we will be mixing it up between doing that (which will be our mixup) and doing things like f+mp, s.LP, f.LK, s.LP, c.LP… etc.
Those s.LPs can be interchanged with c.LP of course, as I think the range is about the same. I’ve just been playing with s.LP for frametraps more lately to take away the raw launch option from the opponent.
The gist of the above is that after we condition the opponent be afraid of pushing buttons, we can use f.LK and f.MP to keep pressure going. I think they both offer enough hitstun to confirm if they hit and continue on. A blocked f.LK also creates the perfect range for a throw, and if you get them teching, raw launch for silly damage.
I’ve had success against Cody players by taking advantage of their typical disrespect for frame advantage - ending a pressure string and then raw launching or using counter seems to put the kibosh on their c.LK mashing.
Against Hwo (like with just about any character) you’ll want to be at near-max f+MP range in neutral. From this range you can easily anti-air jump-ins and outrange any of his footsies. Along the same vein, you can react to his dash with a st.LK xx LP RU, etc. The best ones tend to be patient, and to win, you’ll need to be just as patient - work him back into the corner and press your spacing advantages. Where you’ll get yourself into trouble is if he gets in your face with Flamingo cancel pressure. This is the only time Hwo is dangerous, so if you’re uncomfortable throwing out a counter, spend the bar to cross cancel and reset the situation.
Side Note: Try to avoid using CD as an AA in this matchup due to Hwo’s aerial target combo.
Hope this helps (and that Dane proofreads and adds something so I don’t embarrass myself.)
Colloquially dropping that knowledge like a boss. No proofreading necessary.
I will add something for fun, but keep in mind that it’s very specific. Against players who like to pressure with Hwoarang’s c.LP into the s.MP target combo, you can OS for a counter against the target combo overhead by inputting counter on reaction to seeing Rang’s s.MP, then immediately going to down back. What happens here is that if the Hwoarang player opts for the overhead option of the chain, you counter it for big damage. If, however, he continues with the s.MP > MP target combo, it’s a true blockstring and you continue blocking. The downback after the counter input guards against c.LK, s.MK > s.MK > c.HK, which is a difficult to punish chain that sometimes gets tossed out by Hwoarang players.
I will certainly be playing Jack X after the 2013 patch, but lately I’ve been trying to expand my roster at least a little. I’m going to revisit Jin, and I’ve been poking at a Guy/Dudley team. I need to adjust to those TRex arms though, haha.
I need some light advice from you guys. Right now i am in the bad habit of doing cr.jab(which can get predictable and raw launched) in between the mixups what should i do in betwwen the OH and Lows?. And another thing, after i land the Eisho mon or hammer punch i usually do cr.jab , muso tettsui for the bound and then combo from there. But ive been thinking and is it worth it to learn to Link st.mp xx lp rising upper to the full loop? I want to do it mainly because it avoids raw launcher im sure it does a little more damage too but thats just a bonus. I would do st.lp but i dont want to get the flash punch combo or just two chained st.jabs, yea that would piss me off.
If anything learn to link into st.lk because st.mp xx lp RU can whiff at some ranges. St.lk xx lp ru only whiffs at maximum range. Also st.lk does not get beaten by raw launcher.
Anyone out there going to show the old man some love after 2013 patch? His anti-air st.MK looks reliable but can it be combo’d afterwards? 25 damage doesn’t seem like that much of punish.
jab jab s.HK is all you need for a hit confirm, s.HK xx MP uppercut is all you need during a tag-in/cancel (hopefully we’ll see less of that scrubby f.LP -> MP target combo being used during tag combos when it shouldn’t have been to begin with).
Even after f.LK, you can link into s.HK. One of the characters that got a super strong buff in this version.
Yes, because you have a confirm off a heavy instead of a medium or target combo. Also, protip: Tag combos will all do more damage once you take out the f.LP xx MP overhead combo. Seeing Heihachi players do that off of any tag is sad.
The new cl.hk opens up new combo possibilities. We can also do new combos like cr.lk, cr.lp, st.hk xx mp rising upper thanks to the new hk and is a low hit confirm. If you got good hit confirming skills, you can link st.hk after f.lk and f.mp.
You can do a sweep after mp demon’s breath if you don’t add too many normals beforehand. If you land mp demons breath in the corner now you can get hei’s full bnb starting with cr.mp or cl.hk.
The new st.mk stops EVERYTHING now. It’s great for stopping jump ins at the range that you had to decide with b.mp or f.lp and possibly lose.
You can switch cancel the 2nd hit of ex dragon upper on hit in case you need to get hei out.
Lp counter stops everything below hei’s waist such as cr.lks and cr.mks. Mp counter stops everything above hei’s waist and moves such as cr.lps. Hp counter stops everything like the old counters but has more startup. If you want the true old counter use the ex version. We still get the combo follow up on counter if hei counters anything that isn’t a low.
Good write up, OZleon. I’ll add a few things here.
With the changes to cl. hk, the optimal BnBs are now different, but don’t neglect s.lk xx lp Rising Upper. This is still your best way to get damage off a medium-to-far ranged f.mp, and a medium ranged b.lp. A good general rule of thumb is that if you’re not sure if you’ll get cl.hk, go for s.lk. As we all get experience judging the range where linking into cl.hk is possible, this should become easier to judge.
The new s.mk is indeed really good. You can get damage off it quite often, but it suffers from the same issues as b.mp does when trying to get solo combo damage. You need to judge on the fly which rising upper to use (lp version vs mp version) in order to connect a follow up, and this can sometimes be difficult, especially because there seems to be a range where neither option will connect. s.mk xx hk hell axle also doesn’t combo very well because they are often too high to get both hits of hk hell axle. An alternative is to try and link a c.mk xx hk hell axle after hitting the s.mk AA. It’s also important to take note that s.mk is a 2 hit move, and if you connect with only the second hit of s.mk, they will only be knocked down on counter hit. The first hit always knocks down, so try to connect close to Heihachi’s knee when you can.
Short note about the counter: the hk version seems to still be quite good. The startup seems relatively short, but further testing is required before we have all the details.
A few notes about Heihachi’s Chrome Dome as well: it is now his most damaging meterless attack, if you can charge it to lvl 2. It’s an extremely painful punish when you expect a dp (most dps whiff or get absorbed, allowing you to hit for 130 dmg + ground bounce), and it’s his most damaging grounded combo starter. In particular, you can expect to see a pretty big rise in your tag in combos if you can find a way to tag into lvl 2 Chrome Dome with your team. As an example, using a Jack/Hei team composition:
c.lk xx lp dp, c.mk xx hp tp tag charge lvl 2 Chrome Dome, cl.hp xx mp dp, c.hk
results in 512 damage before gems, for 1 bar, off a crouching light attack.
