And it has throw invulnerability… But it doesn’t eat grabs. I guess it does take out some of the guess work vs command grab characters.
Its not, if the Brady Gudie is correct. 1 f longer active, recovery then HK Counter. And it does less damage then normal versions. Why would anybody use it? Waste of meter and visuelle cue how long the recovery is.
Cant shake the feeling that they messed up big time. That his Counters were suppose to be like Ogres, Lilis Counters.
chun_li1
Anyone got any tips for countering vega wall dives? I really miss my focus attacks… Can’t seem to find anything to beat it consistently. Jump back fierce?
Trying to find a good partner for my Hei, I’ve been running Rolento/Hei for now but I feel like Rolento does so little in terms of opening people up. A good player can just block and the majority of my damage comes from throws or random movement related gimmicks with Rolento. I feel like I always win due to building meter then bringing in Hei and just dominating the person with his mixups.
Any suggestions for good partners?
Ryu, Ken, Juri, Rufus,Hworang, and Raven are get pretty good partners I’d say.
I think it gives you the ground bounce whether or not the opponent hit you high. I’m not sure though, but the guide only shows the damage for the ground bounce animation, not the one where he kicks you across the screen. I’ll test it out today though. If that’s the case, then the EX version could be pretty helpful.
Also, just a quick tip, when Heihachi counters a low attack, and he kicks them across the screen, he does a sort of Akuma-esque taunt, which lasts for quite a while and doesn’t let you capitalize on the knockdown, but this animation can be cancelled by a normal, so you could to a jab and then dash over there, or maybe a f.mp for added distance.
That’s some good stuff. It’s just a concept at this point, but I’ll take all the information I can get. I found out that if you perform the EX Raijin right when you ground bounce an opponent, the first hit will reset them, and the second hit will hit them as soon as they land. I was trying to find some nasty tag cancel mix up with this, but I had no luck. Just thought I’d put that out there.
I don’t know how good it is or isn’t, and it seems pretty inneffective to manually get to the spacing where c.lk xx lp.raijin works on its own as a frametrap. Not that too many people will be hitting buttons against a Heihachi up close in the future.
Seems pretty odd that the f+mp sets it up perfectly on hit but not block. Might work well if you tag Heihachi in using a character who has ground tag in combos. Like Ken hit confirm into tatsu tag cancel Hei f+mp, c.lk xx raijin (possible) reset.
Crumpling is pretty excellent.
How I play Heihachi: F+LP, HP. Repeat. Give it a shot sometime, it’s hilarious. As an aside, I’ve been punished by my friend doing Rufus’ super (9 frame startup according to the guide) after the first hit. It’s definitely not safe, people are just dumb. My favorite is when people try to jump out and get caught by the F+LP again, then the HP combos.
As for actually playing Heihachi, I’m trying to figure out what to do outside of his canned mixup. Slowly finding a use for all of his unique moves. Does anyone actually start their combos with normals (not jump-ins)?
I use cr mk, cr lp and cr hk the most. Other than that just the typical back lp, fwd mp, and headbut (fwd lp+mp).
Cr. lp is good after you hit with the low string and can be hit confirmed into the overhead string combo or another mixup of your choice.
cr. mk can be combod into ex uppercut after a fwd mp from a pretty far range, not max but close to it. You can get 400 damage if you go into the typical combo using this. I also like throwing it out after hitting a few back lp. I believe ex uppercut is safe on blcok so it’s a pretty safe risk and really quick low combo.
Of course you can combo off of the back lp overhead if close enough or if you get a counter hit anyways so it’s more for when you’re in someones head and you know they’ll block high.
- After htting the low string I go into cr lp high/low string again, cr lp into fwd lp lp for frame advantage into sweep, jump in, wait for them to jump and AA, fwd mp or I go into the quick over head or lows with back lp and rarely a cr mk into ex uppercut.
Definitely use back lp though, that overhead is good. Goes through cross arts, high moves and some supers. If you train them to block it you could probably get a free cross up or whatever else cause they’ll be too scared to move in fear of losing 300 - 400 health again.
- I use the headbutt occasionally for jump ins when I know they’re not going instantly into a string due to the fear of my counter. I also might throw it out when they are in the corner and scared, typically they don’t know what to do and jump at you or poke at you. That’s more of a gimmick but it’s fun to mess with people.
I hate most of the SF cast. I did mess with Hworang and Raven in training though, if Raven wasn’t so much of a runaway character I’d probably play him. Hworang I need to go back to although, I’m not that interested in him.
Right on, Pan.
C.mk xxRU+pp is a really good low to go for if you think they might stand-up (out of fear of the abusive overhead).
C.hk looks really good too. I rarely use it… but it comes out quickly and reaches really far. I need to use it more.
I know it sounds absolutely asinine, but I decided to pair Hei with Yoshi. Being an avid Ken player in the regular Street Fighter games, it was my initial reaction to pair him up with Hei - but it became increasingly dull. As for combo openings/beginnings, I’m going to have to agree with Pandemic on that one. cr. MK is usually my ‘bad habit’ opening that tends to get me into trouble, but only when I’m not paying attention. Everything else, I’ve been pretty much sticking to when it comes to Hei. *EX Raijin *I’ve noticed is a bit of aloof when you’re attacking on a body bounced character. The reset is fine (especially if you’re deliberately seeing up a reset). And lol @ " F+LP, HP. Repeat" - it works… despite annoying the hell out of people.
I found out you can just backdash out of all of hei’s F+LP follow ups except for the LP one which is a true blockstring. Tried with Rolento and Hei’s backdash and it doesn’t even hit yet being so close. It seems like during the backdash they are invincible during the startup frames so back dashing out of all those spammed overheard is easy. Haven’t tested punishing them though, I should really do that.
F+lp, lp
is safe if cancelled into a safe special.
F+lp, mp
is unsafe -4f
Also can be reversaled between the lp/mp.
F+lp, hp
is unsafe -3
I ‘think’ it can be reversaled between the lp/hp (haven’t tested)
No good Hei player will rely on these moves to win. They are just tools in the shed to be used for the appropriate situation. Like any move… you will be punished if you become predictable.
Yeah, they’re not true blockstrings, and characters with fast enough reversals can attack in between. Heihachi can use his counter in between the string for free damage and change of momentum. The overhead follow up is -4, so 3 or 4 frame DPs can punish it, as well as perfectly timed normals of the same speed, both of which will lead to big damage. The low variant is -1, so only a Raging Demon or Zangief super can punish that. I’m not even sure if I’m supposed to be posting frame data up here, but I felt the overhead follow up being -4 had to be out there, to get Heihachi players to move towards only using it after a hit confirm.
In unrelated news, I saw a video of someone in another thread do cr.mk xx Medium Raijin (sometimes twice in a row) and then when it was blocked, immediately do a b.lk, which would bait out a normal from the opponent. It looked really godlike, and I wanna try it sometime, but my problem thus far is that I never use cr.mk. I just feel like it gets beaten out often, but I’ll try to incorporate it into my play. Anyway, test that set up out, it could be pretty useful. Especially since his Heihachi’s b.lk moves his hurt box so far back, and scores a knockdown.
Also, anyone watch UltraChen’s latest episode about playing SFxT the wrong way?
I believe that was myself in the videos. B+lk is a read. Don’t just throw it out. Easily blown up by neutral jump due to long start-up.
C.mk and C.hk are good. Only because Hei lacks a good normal poke. If you can no longer reach with a punch… there’s not many other choices.
C.mk and C.hk are good ways to punish those trying to back out from Hei’s mix-up.
Got 8th at a community tourny down here yesterday. Hei gets raped when he is on the defense without meter. If you don’t make a good read… it’s all over. People jump in on him for free. His AA normals are very slow and takes precision to connect with. Difficult to do this in a footsie match when jump-ins are unpredictable and usually done as cross-ups.
In hindsight- I should have taken the cowards way out and jump back kick.
I got a bit of mileage countering standing jabs/pokes with B+lp
Yeah, that was your video. It looked like a bait, but I understand now. I was testing Heihachi’s anti airs out in the lab today, and in a practical setting, it rough to time them as you said. His Tatsu (can’t remember the name) seems to be a decent anti air for far range. It can be used close range, but not practically, as the time to react to a jump in mid-range doesn’t fit with the Tatsu’s start up, resulting in a counter hit in most situations. I usually use f.mp as a poke, so maybe that’s why I don’t use cr.mk, especially since it saves me from jump ins at times. I’ll try to use cr.mk more often though.
Congrats on getting 8th though man, glad your having some success with that team.
Thanks.
‘Some’ success 
I got knocked out by a friend who has built up a bit of experience against me. When he eventually got in close and had me on the defense… it was a nightmare. He knows how to exploit Hei’s lack of uppercut.
F+mp is good from a far poke range. Just don’t do it if you are too close to the opponent. It has a pretty long start-up.
I only started focusing on C.mk myself after being punished too often from doing F+mp.
When close-up and you want to reset and get yourself closer. F+mp and F+lk both work well. It’s good to change up the visual cues to keep them confused. People don’t realize they are at a disadvantage and open to frame traps.
Yeah I saw that ultrachen video the other night, got me thinking a bit. So right now I only really see a few uses for meter with heihachi.
- Fullscreen super punish on raw tags etc.
- Alpha counter/tag (probably his best use of meter).
- Using ex rising upper to start combos, since lp RU loves to whiff so much.
I’m really starting to think that, unless it gets the kill, combos into super are kinda bad. His bnb from hp into RU loop gets 380 meterless, and around 500 with super. That’s like 60 damage per bar, which is just poor use of resources.
Yah, 2 bars is good for punishing raw-tags. 3 bars is good for DESTROYING those annoying jump-ins.
Alpha counter is extremely important to me against Rufus and Grapplers (Hugo).
Yah. But you’ll have to excuse me. Because I am indeed a genius.
A FUCKING GENIUS
Comboing into RU+lp is a bitch due to its distance restrictions.
It doesn’t seem to have a distance problem when canceled off S.lk.
S.lk is 6f start-up.
c.lp is +8f on-hit.
You can hit-confirm after, and up to, 3x c.lp.
eg. c.lp, c.lp, c.lp, S.lk xxRU+lp
YES… I’M A FUCKING GENIUS
Now you make a good point. But what about from the point of view that…
“Guaranteed 504dmg” is really good when compared to "Guaranteed 382dmg"
That 122dmg difference makes it a 50% combo. That could be psychologically damaging? Especially when you kill so much of the timer with the super animation.
I’m neither for or against tagging on the Super. But I will say that there are definitely beneficial situations to do it.
Like you suggested, to get the killing blow.
Or, maybe to get the life lead?
Or, to run the time down?
I guess, it’s up to your current read on the current state of affairs in the match and you have to make the judgement call. It can be a waste… or beneficial depending on your strategy.
Yeah, I think I’m done adding supers to the end of combos as well, unless it kills. Otherwise, it’s kind of a waste. If it didn’t kill, then you’re gonna have to land another combo to finish them off, and that will probably kill them regardless of whether or not you used super in the last combo. Although I’ll always use Cross Arts for time scamming purposes.
As for the UltraChen episode, when UltraDavid was talking about resetting your opponent, and coming up with set ups from there, I couldn’t help but think about Heihachi’s EX Raijin. It resets airborne opponents (ideally while they’re being juggled), and the second hit hits meaty, and does a lot of block stun. I was trying to come up with some sort of mix up with Akuma, but it’s not as easy as it sounds. I did discover that you can cancel the run animation when your character is coming in, so you don’t have to wait until they run all the way over there. I was trying to use Demon Flip as a mix up, but I’m not sure if you can just mash DP out of it or something of the sort, but potential unblockable (or hard-to-blockables) could stem from this set up. I don’t play any other characters, so I wouldn’t know, but it should definitely be looked into. If this leads to a deadly 50/50, then it could be worth the two bars. I just found it kind of interesting that Heihachi can some what apply what UltraDavid was talking about in their last episode.