It crushes more then highs … Read Brady Guide Description (read what it says besides the Move Picture, not what it says in the move list) This move is being slept on. Still dont understand why its an overhead since its better then most of the Casts non-bounce Overheads. Extra property alone imo is too good.
If you want some good lulz for starters, use Heihashi as Dummy and use Zangief. Record Hei to crouchblock up close and do a cr. LP, then link ASAP (may have to adjust timing slightly) into back+LP.
Afterwards, Replay it. Block that cr. LP, then mash Zangiefs Command Grab Super (0-1 f start up) or his Team Super (qcf MP+MK) in between. Reversal, non-reversal message wont matter. Enjoy whats going to happen, especially after the Team Super cinematics. If that was a match situation, you´d be like “Oh no!!! He got me w/ that Super! NOT.”
From there on, start experimenting against other moves of Cast. Not gonna work against every move and may require different timings.
Only got to test a little this weekend, played a couple Heihachi’s online and seems their early strategy is jump in like an idiot and do f.lp>mp over and over again. Works once I guess, and jumping is really good in this game; just so strange to see people never ever on the ground lol…
Notes from this weekend:
f.lp>mp is not a true blockstring, much like Guile’s sweep in SF4 you can beat the second hit with an Inv reversal (I only tested Julia’d DP), counter or armored move to beat it. I didn’t test frames on the gap, just wanted to see if it could be beaten.
-However, f.lp>lp is a true blockstring and is completely safe if cancelled into lp Raijin stance. the f.lp>lp works as a confirm on it’s own and plenty of time to continue with bnb.
-Raijin stance is dope as hell too. Aside from safe string ender it can be used as an anti-poke and seems to have a deceptive hitbox shift. Hits early close to Hei, and later in active frames hitboxes move outwards. On counterhit causes crumple and lp version is safe. Additionally this move is active for 13 frames, so if timed meaty it could potentially be +13 hit/+10 block (lp Raijin);+12 hit/+9 block (mp Raijin); +10 hit, +7 Block (hp Raijin). Additionally the moves have differing startup times, which will allow some variation on frame tight setups. Of course they can roll , but it will be good to have setups anyways
That’s some good info on the Raijin Stance. I also noticed that the overhead follow up isn’t a true blockstring when a Julia player EX DP’d out of it. I heard the low follow up isn’t a block string either, but I haven’t tested it out yet.
Also, everyone pretty much knows that b.mp is a great anti-air, but cancelling it into a Light Rising Uppercut, and then following up with a s.fp xx Hard Dragon Uppercut is extremely effective. It does great damage, can be tag cancelled, and ultimately leaves people afraid to jump, which is great for Heihachi.
Anyone else use this method? If not, I think it should become the new standard for anti-airs with Heihachi. I’m having great success with it.
I’ve had issues with different strength rising uppers whiffing, depending on spacing/timing of when the anti-air hits. I can’t get it consistent which is irritating as hell, since you really have to be on your toes to land the AA, cancel and then actually get a combo, unlike just doing a braindead tag cancel from a dp.
As for raijin I’ve had little luck using it as a poke/counter poke, seems to get beaten easily, I prefer to buffer mp raijin into a cr.mk. Since it’s pretty safe on block (-3 is hella safe in this game vs most of the cast) and gets you into the range you want to be. Something I’m trying is getting a counter out after raijin is blocked, since people seem to love to push buttons when this happens. I keep forgetting he has a counter (or doing the wrong motion, haha), but it’s so frigging useful in loads of situations. Actually makes rolentos start to think if you use it during jab pressure.
Yeah, good players are consistently punishing me for trying to do blocked f.lp>mp. It’s an awful habit anyway, have to start using f.lp>lp and confirming into hp dp//safe block string.
Have you guys been charging up a counter hit and then using qcb+p? Seems pretty good.
This is my AA. b+mp xx lp dp, s.hp xx mp dp, s.hp xx super. stop jumping
Yeah, as of now, Heihachi is my main, 100%.
The problem is finding a sub!
I was using Hwoarang for a while, but I couldn’t use his footsies effectively.
Running with Sagat right now, but still open to trying others.
Anyways, I feel this guy has every tool to make wakeup hell. Overheads into combos. Lows into combos. Counters against DPs/SRKs if you have good Yomi. TWO good moves for crossups. Chrome Dome. Give him a command grab, and WHAM, instant OP. Heihachi seems to be really good if you know what the opponent is doing before they do it. Otherwise, you’re going to have a hard time, since he lacks good defensive options, and his offensive mixups seem gimmicky if you aren’t 2 steps ahead of the enemy.
I think Hei is more of a anchor, he can be your starter but he has some bad matchups and trouble with zoning. I think he’s much better as your tag in character who can then start with a knockdown into mixups rather than having to work his way in. So find someone who beats zoners well as your starter and I think you’ll have a nice team.
I know Hei can reflect projectiles and go through them but if a character with good pokes, speed and runaway of any sort cna keep Hei from starting his pressure that’s where the problem comes in. I’m liking my Rolento/Hei team a lot. I want to run Hei/King but that team struggles against keep away or people with amazing footsies.
I’m loving Heihachi right now. I use him as anchor because of his health and what he does once your teammate has already got in. I need to find a solid partner until Sakura comes out… For now I’m using Ken - Heihachi but they damage scale so bad during tag combos!
Yeah, I just see if they’re doing a close or far jump-in. If it’s close, I do the Light RU and if they’re far, I do the Medium version, but I misread it at times. It’s something worth practicing though.
I’m really liking cr.fr as an anti-air for neutral jumps, like Chun-Li and Juri, but it’s scary to not be in range and whiff.
Don’t know just how good this is yet, but last night I was playing around with f+mp and noticed that if you hit with it and link to near max range c.lk xx lp Raijin the Raijin doesn’t connect because of early hitbox whffing
But, the hitbox shifting outwards acts just like a frame trap…that crumples on counter hit…so dirty . I will finally get some testing time tonight and want to see how tight this is, it will get blown up by INV specials I think, but I got 12-15 crumples last night.
@TFA Hornett- good shit on Cross Assault. Your team of Ken & Hei sounds great.
This mentality confuses me.
Isn’t it better to simply take guaranteed follow up combo, as oppose to, resetting after just two hits.
I’d personally go for S.lk > magic series … into launcher or into ex-RU.
I don’t understand why anyone would be jabbing when they are being hit. Id have thought they more likely to mash reversal special or raw launcher when being hit.
Eh. People hit buttons and Raijin is active for a long time so it may be tempting to see the early frames “whiff” and stop blocking or hit a button. And there is no reason to go for optimal anything at this point for me, I am more interested in finding out how the moves work and what special uses they have. I don’t use meter with Hei at all if I can help it and I want to try and learn to keep Heihachi pressuring without launching. I am playing to learn at this point, not playing to win.
After hearing UltraChen talk so much about resets, I think GuruPrimo is on to something. I’ve been trying to find ways to reset people/keep the pressure on people with Heihachi and I think raijin is good for that, as is lp demon’s breath.
We need more ch setups with raijin. Gonna try f.lp, hp, lp raijin // f.lp, lp xx lp demon’s breath [wait] mp/hp raijin…
Resets are good… after you have done a good amount of damage and damage scaling prevents further hits from becoming effective.
Resets are not good when you DISREGARD GUARANTEED DAMAGE for the possibility of getting… DAMAGE.
You go for a reset when your combo count reaches a high number. Not after 1 or 2 hits.
If you connect a F+mp and go for the follow-up of, say, S.lk xxRU+pp, S.hp xxRU+mp, S.hp xxDU+hk, p … that’s 364dmg.
You are willing to risk a guaranteed 1/3 of the opponents life for the POSSIBILITY of getting 1/2 or 0 of thier life? That’s one hell of a gamble.
I don’t hate resets. I like resets. But not at the expense of guaranteed, significant, damage.
I go for frame traps when the opponent is blocking. I go for crumples during footsies and when the opponent is blocking. But I don’t go for frame-traps and crumples when I only just started to hit the opponent. It seems counter-productive.
I think you skipped entirely what I wrote and that’s cool. Sure, I did this on f+mp hit last night and skipped optimal damage and launcher. You know what my next step is? Doing it on block, or as a combo ender or in different situations.
We know what combos do damage. But damage can be healed in this game so, I don’t know…forgive me for trying to start being creative with move properties to sidestep scaling.
Damage can be healed in this game?
So… we shouldn’t bother to hit the opponent. Because… they just get their life back?
Get creative all you want. I have never tried to stop that. I encourage it.
I was simply questioning the effectiveness of trying to reset after… a F+mp and a total of two hits.
Why are we avoiding damage scaling from a few hits?
This is a forum.
We discuss ideas. The pros and CONS.
Resets are good. But in this particular example… it doesn’t seem to be productive.
I’m sorry if you got a little butt-hurt about what I said. I’m not criticizing you as a person, nor your skill.
I’m simply making the argument. If you ‘hit’ the opponent… you should continue to do so.
Anything else, in regards to, searching for set-ups, trying things… is fine. I don’t address it because I have no issue with it.
Just because I disagree with one thing you said… doesn’t mean I’m going to become irrational and immediately disagree with everything.
The topic I was discussing was mainly focused on ‘what one should do when he hits the opponent’.
In conclusion:
I disagree with your suggested tactic of, discontinuing to hit them after 2 hits, and hoping they press buttons.
I believe Resets are good after a lengthy combo, due to damage scaling having a large effect on damage.
Trying new things and coming up with ideas is good.
Yeah man, you ruined my shit-break. I don’t even know if I will be able to eat dinner tonight I am so “butt-hurt”. Just wish you would read a bit more closely.
First, I didn’t suggest this as a tactic. I was “playing around” last night and this seems like a potentially nasty little trap. I haven’t even tested it yet. I surmise it will be best as a spaced block string ender.
Second, yes continued damage is better than non-damage; but as I said I am not playing to win right now, I am playing to learn and posting findings that I haven’t seen yet. This is how shared innovation happens. What I am posting is not optimal, as far as we define or understand what even *is *optimal in this game yet. You assumed that I was saying this was an optimal way to behave after a hit confirm, and I at no time said anything of the sort.
Third, the “hoping they press buttons” isn’t all that accurate; I was simply describing what was happening while I was playing around last night. Frame traps are specifically built around the hope they hit buttons, and lp.Raijin being safe on block and crumpling on CH could be amazing in that capacity. Or it could get blown up.
Fourth, this is both boring and exhausting and I am about 85% sure you are coming from a good place and about 55% wary that you will repeat that resets are good after long combos and you disagree with a tactic that I never actually explicitly suggested as viable and 100% sure that I am done with this.