His gameplan- trying to get closer and prevent you from getting oiled while he kicks your ass (same as almost everyone) Your gameplan- Keeping him away with your normals, and damaging him while he tries to get in. Trying to get oiled, then you have an advantage in footsies IMO and you can push him away.
General tips:
Do not jump at him at all. He can s.hk and s.hp you as AA, and if you kick him with an early j.mk he can spd you after you land.
Do not oil up on when he’s in the air, he can react with dive. On the ground though he can’t reach you in time from half screen away.
Try to hold your ground with your normals. Don’t let him corner you.
Use your ultra of choice as a threat to prevent him from rushing you down if you do get stuck in the corner.
After experimenting a lot with U2, I think I prefer U1 in this specific matchup, since he can use cleverly spaced dive to bait your ultra. Maybe my opinion will change when I’ll play some more.
When doing footsies with him this are the normals I use-
s.hp, un-oiled f+hp, c.hp (beats his s.hp clean), oiled f+hk, focus attack (if he jumps cancel the focus into backdash immediately), neutral jumping normals (depending the angle his coming and if he activates dive).
Punish blocked dives with 360k or super, punish blocked condor spire with 360p. If they whiff, jump or try to punish depending or the situation and if you are oiled or not.
If he did punish your short oil with a dive, be aware that you get the oiled wake up game, which is great against T.Hawk’s mix-ups.
Nice, I always felt a little underhanded in this matchup but now that I think about it from your perspective I can see it being an even matchup. Never knew I can punish blocked dives with 360K, that’s very useful to know.
Anyway, can anyone help me with this matchup? I feel like Sim is a pretty good counter against Hakan as his footsies are obviously very good and getting in close is just very hard especially when he can Yoga Tower your Oil Slides… Here’s a [media=youtube]JYlirttg3-I"[/media].
I really don’t like doing oil slides unless I can hit confirm them, and I don’t like playing risky in general.
I haven’t played a Dhalsim yet, but just from my Hakan and SF4 knowledge I think you should try to get away to full screen and then oil up. When oiled, get closer and focus limbs into DNC f+hk to score knockdowns.
Also find long active normals that can beat or trade with limbs.
And try to use the low jump arc in your favor when closer to him, with early j.mk and j.hk.
I’ve played a little bit of Sim, and while I think it’s a difficult match up to get used to, i think hakan stands a pretty fair chance.
In general, try not to rush in so much when you aren’t oiled. You should rather take the damage from his normals while oiling instead of just rushing in. Plus, oil probably gives you one of the best tools you have against Sim, FA absorb into DNC. If you have oil and Dhalsim tries to keep you away with normals, you can punish them with a focus absorb into DNC f+HK…or maybe f+MP, slide (haven’t tried it.) Either way, you knock him down and put dhalsim in a tough position.
If Sim is camping me like that, I just tend to take the opportunity to do an EX oil or something. Sure he can hit me out of it, but it still gives me a decent amount of oil, which is really helpful in this match up.
Ah, thanks guys. I’ll try focusing and hitting limbs, but DNC f+HK is good advice too. I guess I would have to take hits while oiling in this matchup. Too bad I don’t have a Dhalsim friend to test these strats, but I’ll definitely try it when I come across a Sim player.
I forgot to add another important part to the vs TH analysis:
8. If he did punish your short oil with a dive, be aware that you still get the oiled wake up game, which is great against T.Hawk’s mix-ups.
Hakans throws oiled up far out range everyone else in the game. His throws aren’t especially fast, they just have offensive range. You can beat thawk by being outside his range, thats how Hakan wins vs command grabs. Same with gief. They have good range and extremely fast startup but not the range hakan has oiled up.
absolutely… just took me a while to get what was going on lol. I think i went in with the wrong mind set, it is definitely a slow start up the range is just silly, i went in to learning Hakan thinking o man this guy is gonna be tick throw madness!!! lol.
I’m also starting to dig his super alot more. It has invincibility on startup. Beat a ryu today who threw a fireball from around mid screen went right thru it. Also is super quick on start up and has pretty insane range as well. Hit a guy jumping away with the lk super and leaped about half way across the screen and snatched him out of the air almost instantly, caught me off guard lol.
I’m thinking right now, that the biggest problem for him will be managing a rush down. Gotta figure out some options for that, its very hard to get away once someone like a ryu or a cammy get you in the corner.
*Oil up even if it means getting hit and advance with “sliding” focus -> forward dash cancelled into f.mp or c.hp to absorb/beat his limbs (very effective tools against Sim). Score a knockdown, oil up again and start the oil pressure. It’s important to keep yourself oiled, Dhalsim’s throw range is actually better than unoiled OR.
*Dhalsim relies a lot on crouch tech to defend himself from pressure. Train him to tech a few normal tick throws setups (simple things like c.lk>throw), then Oil Coaster instead. Not a theory only setup, shit works wonders against him, promise.
*Oil Slide > his jump back.
*Yoga Inferno is really hard to get over, I get hit by it often. Maybe it’s possible to bait it with Guard Position? Worth trying.
*Oil Coaster beats his U1 when in proper range.
Good stuff, Tataki. Thanks for sharing. I also put that on the front post.
Sorry I haven’t edited that post much. I haven’t had much time to play Super due to it being my work week. If anything, I’ll contribute this:
Against Dee Jay, coward crouch seems to avoid a lot of his special moves. Most notably, at least in my opinion, the fact that his sobat kick whiffs completely against Hakan’s coward crouch. You can do it almost on reaction to the kick, but I think you’ve got to see it coming, or else you’ll get hit by the sobat.
About the sim + other runaway match-up: I’ve had some success just laming it out at the start. you can probably at least LK oil safely when Sim shoots any fire. Other characters, just try stalemating doing coward crouches and wait for your opportunity. LK oil is really fast, so you can block or focus a fireball afterward without much risk. I’ve been using a lot more LK oil than other strengths due to how many safe opportunities there are for it.
Hakan is really as much of a poke character as he is a grappler, so say you LK oil after a backthrow into the corner, you could go for a sweep from c.HK (pretty good anti-air btw) or f.HK then LK oil again. or do some DNC/crisco/riposte if you don’t want to let the player out of the corner, but you don’t want to risk EX reversal either.
Like if they try jumping out, you could airthrow then LK oil again. If they do an EX reversal and you just block, well then they’re free. Also it’s not a bad idea for when you get the life lead, to back dash a bit on their next wake-up from a sweep to do a longer oil.
Having to sacrifice closed space for this could be problematic, but since you got in once, you probably have a good enough understanding for how to get in again.
j.MP beats out Cammy’s dive kicks, and so does s.HP iirc (not sure)… The character matchup that sucks the most in my opinion is hakan vs. bison… you can’t do nothing against those scissors…
Just played a sim, seemed like it was in my favor? Oil slide is fairly useless in the matchup true, for one, you can just pound him with your normals though- and I had no trouble focus dashing in to crush his zoning.
focus fireball/arms -> f.mp/lk/(f.hk if in range). if you mixup actually dashing in with f.mp or f.hp/hk with just sitting there with cancels into lk, it’s really difficult respond to.
I feel hakan is actually really strong against fireballs because of focus. he can focus, cancel into a lk then focus another fireball and clear the screen before they can even do anything.
anyone else having a shit ton of trouble with the turtling charge chars. or the wall dive happy vega, cuz its for me its REALLY starting to piss me off cuz there isnt shit i can do to open anything up, i try to do crisco mixups and when i even get close people just start to mash jab and knocking me out of everything i try to do
About the vs. fireball/spacing characters btw, I think the best thing you ought to do if you’re being fireball spammed is HK Oil and take the hit… then when they go for another fireball EX Slide.
you can’t just play a ‘sim’, you need to play someone who knows how to play sim.
i played ~ 70 game set with the butler, i managed to win 1 game. i got streaked on by 60+ games. The only time Hakan can win is when he’s oiled up and knocks sim down. honestly, if you played against some sim players who know their shit the matchup is pretty fucking bad.
the best way to deal with it is to oil up, and predict when sim will use crouching or standing fierce. parry through that shit and follow up with towards+roundhouse, and pray that it connects. The problem is finding an opening to teleport. Once sim knows when you like to oil up bait the teleport and stuff it with a standing fierce (unless he has u2 then he’s probably fishing for it). Apply pressure. Post-knockdown is a guessing game heavily in favor for Hakan, however the most difficult part of the match-up is tricking sim into letting you oil up as well as getting in that ass.
EDIT: I will definitely work on the things you guys have mentioned in this matchup, hopefully i won’t get raped as hard.
@Sim
your slide (Specialy the HP/EX (Oiledup) is fast enugh to catch his limps on recovery so go for it teach him not to HP after Focus Fire with DCN how beat his limps specialy F+HP (awsome hitbox; best normal damage in game u guess?) be pationed use your EX-Slide if oiled to catch him fireballing if he dont fireball at all just oil up just move forward focusing DNC into c.LK Block / Punish its a annoying borring matchup and you desperatly need to know what to do against sims teleport mixup but the rest is yours
@Deejaa
i desperatly need help against his Crossup/Mixxup game he atacks me with his 4hit Combo (ending with c.MK that knocks down) the combo is no real blockstring so i can not try to reversal him out and then he crossup me (HP can punish it EARLY EARLY but thats to early on reaction and he could just stop the combo walk vorward and Throw and since you can not reversal savely your just blocking and can not react fast enugh
is there a punishable way out of this or is his onloy option to slide away? maybe Focusing the MK? or forward dash after mk? or something reliable ?