Sort of new to Hakan and his EX Oil Slide confuses me
can you control the distance or something? Sometimes I’ll zip across the stage or just go like 2 inches and get ruined
Without oil = EX Slide doesn’t go fullscreen, it has about as much range as his jab-punch slide.
With oil = EX goes goes fullscreen, it has about as much range as the fierce-punch slide
With oil + you mash punch = EX goes REALLY far and fast! Easily farther than any other slide. This is the one you use to punish fireballs.
Is it just me or does anyone else use toward+lk against Balrog’s dash punches? It combos nicely on CH and has superior range to the lp CH techniques.
Mordie-Kai, I just wanted to say your lab work has been awesome. I’ll be trying to implement air resets > Oil Dive into my game. The Honda s.MK > MK Oil Dive sounds too good to be true.
The Hakan v Abel matchup is annoying. Not only is his TT faster than your SPD, but his wheelkick beats almost everything I threw at him unless I use U2 on reaction. At least oil slide goes under the kick. I don’t know whether Ex SPD technically beats his mix up games, but a lot of times, everytime I went for the Oil Dive, I got punished for it, even oiled up.
Thanks, man. I’ve been practicing against the computer Honda and can occasionally s.mk against the EX head butt. The problem is, it’s hard to determine at that speed, if he’s close enough for the mk oil dive follow up. The c.mp against butt slam so far has been really good, even against an attempted cross up. It’s surprising what c.mp does to butt slam and against advanced opponents, you can step forward slightly and do lk oil dive (instead of >hk or EX oil dive), so it’s less obvious.
I had fun against an Abel online a while ago using f.mp to air reset him out of wheel kick > lk oil dive. The guy was eating it every time. LOL
Balrog is another one I definitely want to master air resets against, because his jump attacks are pretty nasty. So far, it has been helpful on occasion. Still a challenge, though.
Ah, the Balrog jump-in. I used to succumb to these too, but the only range that causes problems when he jumps is between his block-strings. I have 2 Balrog friends to train with, so f.LP has become natural. Usually, the matches where I lose come from me whiffing the anti-air attempt (i.e. st.LP or late st.HP). I’ll try to upload a video of me facing a high-level Balrog sometime.
Cool. Thanks.
[edit] Speaking of lab work, this might be somewhat obvious (maybe just in hindsight), but if you use s.mp against Dhalsim on his barely off the ground teleport, you can oil dive him on the air reset. It depends on how high he is, but s.mp > mk oil dive seems pretty good. It may be better just to eyeball it, which is not super difficult. Also, this is not so obvious but lp doesn’t work, as far as I can tell.
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some of my game-play footage with hakan chun vs hakan is a serious bad match-up but i think in arcade mode hakan can focus a lot of her pokes whiled oiled up allowing him to combo off level 1 focus would be a lot easier in arcade with his stacked oil
So were people holding out or did I miss the discussion? C.lp xx lp slide is a safe slide against sumo head butt. Wow. That helps. A lot. It’s an OS, too, should no headbutt come out, when you anticipated one. That’s probably better than the s.mk techniques. Also, after further tests, I found Honda can EX headbutt and c.lp xx oil up against headbutt. I guess only c.mk xx lk oil up would work, and that is just ridiculously hard to do against headbutt. Still, c.lp xx slide rocks.
So back to the s.mk against sumo headbutt, just because this is pretty good, too: While getting the timing down to get Honda in range for a mk oil dive is not as easy as I’d hoped (but still doable), there is a little more here than that. The options after a s.mk’d headbutt are:
#1 mk oil dive (should Honda be close enough; in fact, if he’s really close, you can lk oil dive). Certainly hard to do consistently, but it’s cool to have on the table.
#2 Dash > an oiled rocket. This should be pretty hard to react to, even for advanced players. This will beat hundred hand, too, even if you’re not oiled. Might be useful.[edit]After some testing, this is the right time to ultra 2, should honda headbutt or slam, as his wake-up is started already as you go into your ultra 2.
#3 dash to provoke > jump to punish headbutt severely or stay put and possibly ultra 2 slam or punish it otherwise. (Jumping backward will allow a f.mp xx slide against ex headbutt)
This is definitely useful when you are oiled. Kinda useful when not, but I don’t recommend it, unless you’re timing on the s.mk is very good. I think ultra 2 is best for Honda, so I don’t know about this when unoiled. Any feedback on this? I’m finding it interesting and useful so far. [edit]I should add that this is best against EX headbutt or maybe medium or light headbutt. Hard headbutt, you can easily hp slide against. Of course, any decent Honda knows this, so they simply will be careful not to HP headbutt.
Given more time and experience with the s.mk versus the sumo headbutt, I’ve decided that it has some use but doesn’t add a whole lot. It adds some. First of all, for me, it’s a bit too hard to time consistently against EX and even hard headbutt, unless I’m really ready for it and Honda is at least a half screen away. Still, I can get it in and can see whether I’ve knocked Honda close enough to oil dive him. I can also pretty well approximate whether I can lp safe slide as Honda resets as well. It’s kinda fun and handy.
As it turns out, though, the c.lp provides the same timing for Hakan as the s.mk, although c.lp never provides an opportunity for the oil dive. Furthermore, the s.mk knocks Honda further away, which is handy if you plan to dash in and expect an EX butt slam. Keeps you a bit safer. It’s a fun little thing to have, the s.mk against headbutt, but it’s a bit slow coming out. If you’re not oiled, however, at least you have the option of oil diving Honda after a countered headbutt. I guess any extra offense for Hakan against Honda is welcome, of course.
I recommend experimenting with c.lp against headbutt, dash, spd, while oiled. It’s really a powerful technique, forcing Honda to do something when you dash, allowing you to also counter whatever he tries. For those that didn’t know about this, I think this will help quite a bit.
Also, if you missed it, j.mk just after the apex of your jump against headbutt also sets up for mk oil dive, which is easy to do. Makes me think a j.mk against headbutt, dash spd would work also but don’t quote me on that. Also, the c.lp xx lp slide (safe slide) against headbutt is also good, in case you missed that.
[edit]An oiled, dashing s.mk (not f.mk) has good forward movement but also is fairly safe against Honda, unlike the f.mp. It stuffs headbutts and seems somewhat useful on Honda wake-ups if you’re at the right range. Nice alternative to get you in close and activate block stun.
I main Abel so I can tell you I abuse the hell out of some wheel kicks. Smart ones though. Just walk forward. All grapplers can just walk forward and block its enough to push poeple to the corner. Punish bad wheel kicks with c.lp xx lk oil dive, or grab if oiled. Tornado throw is invincible to throws and EX Tornado throw is invincible to attacks.
So I developed a set up against Chun-Li that allows you to EX oil dive over her if she crouches upon wake-up. It’s a mix-up, where the other options tempt her to jump or dash backward. Wrote the whole thing out in the lab, because I think there are others against whom you can do this. Figured it belonged in the lab, because this could be a new avenue to explore with Hakan.
Hakan stuff and things:
-f+fp is a really good anti air (sorta match specific but once its out it stuffs damn near anything) and meaty attack, set up oily oil rocket
-Oily bdnc normals whenever you poke
-s.lp oily bdnc mp sets up counter hit
-f+lp seems to work very well when jumped on when cornered, I had dudley doing j.rh right above me while I was cornered and I could hit him out of the air
- Whenever you can’t anti air due to cross ups, immediately slide to safety of f+mp/c.fp under (U1 if you have it)
- bdnc after meaty slide lets you pressure even if at a slight disadvatage, should avoid throws too didnt test that out.
Edit: Just randomly testing stuff out I didn’t see in this thread
Oh yeah and easiest option select when oiled to land ultra 1 vs backdash meaty s.mp -> ultra
Never thought about this, nicely done sir
and i u FA backdash and it hits u got a 4 frame safe jump
BUT… if it hits and u are oiled,backdash then jump late mk guess wha u got ? a 3 frame reversal safe jump
lp shoryus are blocked and depending on the distance of the cancel it’s a mp,hp and ex shoryu safe jump
yeah i found it an hour ago…
Damn. BDNC after safe slide… that’ll help. That is good. Perhaps it’s even better if you get there too early and would otherwise whiff your throw. Something I will definitely experiment with. Great idea.
I also wanted to mention I improved the c.lk setup against mp sumo headbutt. By a lot. First of all, I’m finding it quite easy to do this on reaction against mp headbutt. Get in close and duck up and down to see if you can lure him. Anyway, you c.lk and do one of 3 things as Honda recovers. #1 was to just dash and throw, but that’s way too easy to deal with. #2 f.mp, as you have just enough time to get there and whiff. If you do it slightly later, you can connect instead. It’s quite ambiguous. #3. If he’s further away, you can f.hk, which recovers a little more slowly but gives more distance to allow for a dry oil rocket. In all three cases, there are dry oil rocket possibilities.
I also realized that Honda is not charged by the time he lands from recovering from the countered headbutt, at least if he was close enough when he started the headbutt. That also means you have to work quickly to take advantage.
Anyway, this looks like maybe we can put just a little more pressure on Honda. If you’re skeptical, try out the c.lk against headbutt. It gives you superior leeway compared to all the other responses Hakan has to headbutts. Just wish it left Honda in uncrouchable air reset position.
You had abandon the safe slide due to throws, hadn’t you? I’m going to guess this will help you a lot? So when are we going to see more videos of you? Do you have any vids of you utilizing the uncrouchable air dive on air reset? I’ve gotten a few of those in lately. Fun stuff :).
Yeah. My opponents are pretty top tier players so they figured out that they can pretty much mash grab unless I have u1 ready whenever I do a safe slide setup. This new idea will help a bit, although I’m not oily often enough for it to be really big. Bet it’ll be big in AE, though.
Vids of me? Nah. I’ve become physically incapable, in quite a literal sense, of competing at a high enough level of input control to be a good player. And I don’t intend to put that embarrassment and frustration on public display.