Been awhile since a tournament got me all excited. Congrats to HOOK! GANG! GOD!
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VLol, meh.
Things learned this summit that should have been obvious before, but now I doubt anyone will disagree:
1.piccolo assist is really good for neutral and thatâs what largely won most matches for hook.
2. Yamcha assist is stupid good as well. Makes super dash almost OP as well as other things.
3. Yohosie has a long way to go before she can really compete with the top dogs.
Anywho, I fully expect sonic to run it back against hook next time. This win was largely based on the confidence and free neutral that piccolo assist was giving him. Sonic adjusted to goichis blocking by getting a team with better assists (whoops, I meant better mixups), I think he will have answers for hooks neutral by the next time they play. But all in all Iâm pretty happy with the result of this. âWeâ knocked japan out of the top spots so they canât wail on amerca is free, anymore. Good stuff that hook was able to beat up on them as well but I think his team specifically handles cell very well because cells air beam doesnât reach fullscreen so he has trouble hitting the piccolo assist and making the point block as well which is way easier with aerial beams.
Neutral in this game gets better if you have an air horizontal beam. Mixup in this game gets better if you have a 2L. KB and gotenks are 2 of the few characters that have that. The other one is krillin, which is a character that is hopelessly underrated. I hope to see more krillin or SOME krillin doing something, heâs hard as shit to block and his neutral with beams and ki blasts is surprisingly solid.
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Krillin would be really good if things such as cross-up protection or general assist buffs were done. Snapback + Rock looks like it would have potential, but with the way the mechanics are set, it kind of doesnât. Lockdown is meh and damage in case it trades is really sad. Otherwise, heâs a good character on his own⊠but why pick him when Gotenks and Kid Buu are available (if you like small characters).
Piccoloâs assist is also extremely good in a lot of situations like you said. Also to add, even during snapbacks, itâs a pain to deal with. If you force the opponent to respect it on corner snapbacks, then the point character will obtain one of the better mix-up plans in the game as far as snapbacks go (with Gotenks and Kid Buu lockdown being right below)⊠since you can set it up for cross-up/empty low side switch setups. Of course if they just mash SD or double jump then the setup would lose, but you can always meaty that.
Biscuits brought up something that I wasnât convinced even from a while back⊠which was, what makes Piccolo âbadâ? Some of the responses that can be given are counterable in Piccoloâs case with something else, whereas someone like A21, who shares the same issues in some departments, does not really have a counter in âmost cases.â
From what I gathered:
+Has a Low 2L
+Has one of the best jL in terms of priority
+Hellzone (snapback setup or proper meaty string prior to startup)
+Good normals
+Has one of the best 2-hit IAD priority normals (jM; even against small characters) (similar to Cell)
+Good homing assist that can also be used to create really ambiguous setups
=Damage is decent
-No meterless HKD
-Gimmicky special moves
-No true beam attack
-Big size
No HKD? His j236L can at least be followed up with 236S orb⊠and even though it looks weak due to it being super dashable, it still forces the opponent to not go straight for the offense (similar to the Vegeta assist bait situations)⊠plus it homes to the opponent. A21 doesnât really have something like that unless she uses a beam assist and jail the opponent in some fashion.
Bad specials? True. Although, to be fair, unless your specials are like Gotenks where they are + on block when using the EX version (or youâre Bardock and have Lariat), you have other ways to take control of the game, to the point that moves wonât even be necessary if you can establish a mixup game. Some characters like A. Gohan wonât need to do special moves in neutral (like his overhead 214+attack) because itâs just a once in a blue moon thing, a gimmick.
To keep short, I donât think heâs top, but heâs definitely not bad.
Still dont think thereâs any reason to use Krillin in a tournament other than you like him. Been too long and he hasnât really been talked about on the low like at least Gotenks was. Gotenks is the only real sleeper character that has actually come about to some real shit. The rest of the cast is filled of obvious tops, used to be tops that got nerfed and just characters that arenât necessary for tournaments/bad. Krillin just sounds like another Ginyu. Can potentially do some things, but too many issues and not enough reward compared to what you could be playing.
I thought Jiyuna said GO1 was giving up Vegeta for good, but still using him as of this event. Hookganggod still using Vegeta as well, so itâs safe to say ki blasts assist isnât going anywhere. Quite a few of the other pros still on him as well. DP/Air OK DP still too good also.
Well, not to argue, but itâs been seen already that really what it takes for any character to be considered âgood? Is for a top player to use them and do good with them. There are of course exceptions to this âruleâ but gotenks is a perfect example. People said he was good, but no one was willing to try that was super high level⊠except for sonic. And now we see that yeah, heâs good, really good. Then we have Yamcha, people said he was shit, but some (such as myself and a few others) that he has some aspects to him that are VERY good. Namely his assist is ridiculous, and his crossup mixup is as well. This is countered by âbut there are other great assists in the game so why use Yamchaâ etc. or âbut you can just jab out of his mixupsâ etc. which are both true, but IRL this shit donât work that way. You start to jab out of Yamcha mixups and you start to get frame trapped, etc etc you start to stop pressing buttons and bam, you start to get mixed up again. This isnât to say that Yamcha is âgoodâ but he definitely has his good points.
Krillin: little dude is good. He has his issues, certainly, but when I was using him for around a week or so he quickly became my most effective character⊠the only huge problems I found with him were 2 fold and 1 was worth dropping him: his assist was fucking useless in blockstrings unless I used like cell or someone that had a move that caused no pushback (cell perfect attack). I didnât want to use cell so that meant everytime I dhc krillin out, I had a shitty assist to work with. That was worth dropping him. HOWEVER, look at the current meta. People use their lvl1 sparking just for the heal. Krillin assist heals. Krillin rock is also useful for blockstrings from cells perfect attackâŠ
We putting 2 and 2 together here yet?
Android 21. The lack of slide KD is what kills her. Itâs SOOOOO important. As it is now, once A21 hits you once and takes like 3/4 of your bar, you get off Scott free and tag and then she has to deals with a full health character again while the other heals for free on the sidelines. This in reality is a huge barrier to overcome. Watch everyone tag after leffen combos them. It takes a lot of 21âs power away, and consequently is why I dropped her. But tbh, this can slightly be mitigated by putting her second where sheâs much more likely to meetup with characters that have already been damaged, and she tends to get 80% of her damage from one assist anyways⊠so maybe thatâs where to put her, but then you have her shit assist to deal with. Itâs not TERRIBLE, but itâs not great either. So thatâs her basic problem. Doesnât really shine in any one spot because she has big issues at all of them.
Gotenks is like this as well. His assist isnât GREAT, but sonicfox has found good ways to use it, but one of the biggest reasons for this is because cells perfect attack is actually pretty broken in this game because of what it does (no âpushbackâ, hits twice so it locks down for slower startup assist like KB and gotenks) whereas most other specials that lockdown move the opponent back, making things like gotenks or krillin assist wiff.
But yeah, it takes a top player to make a character go up in tiers in this game especially.
Ginyu has really ridiculous stuff, but itâs going to take a player of fox or goichi or Chris gâs caliber to make people see. And since there are way easier characters to use and get results with, thereâs no reason why any of those players would do that outside of just loving the character.
Oh and I missed a couple things:
Piccolo. I mainly disliked his lack of beam and dhc potential. Not having a slide KD was also bad. But the beam and his S attacks were what really killed it for me. His neutral is meh and his mixup isnât good enough to make up for it since he has to hit you first. His mixup is also extremely dangerous to use because the command grab is dangerous on wiff and his crossup is also. Kinda leaves him in action very weird spot.
Vegeta: the top players have just stopped using him as a setup assist and use him almost totally as an assist to extend combos and for neutral like a DP assist. And heâs still great at that so thatâs why they are still using him.
I donât think Piccolo Assist had that much of a hand in Hookâs wins/losses. His Diccolo was on point/being targeted too much to definitively say it was the deciding factor. A lot of it came from his great mixups with his characters, Piccolo in particular. He nailed a ton of his command grabs and paved over a lot of the holes in the old Hellzone mixups. This played especially well against SonicFox, who is noted for being vulnerable on defense.
More than anything else though, Hook was stuffing a lot of normals in neutral. A lot of Vegeta knees, a lot of Piccolo Sword normals, a lot of conversions into mixup scenario following.
Respect to HGG. He was playing insane. The whole event was just good fun all around.
What I found interesting is how people spammed super dash and tag out. I remember when everyone was saying how easily counterable they are and that as the meta evolves the mechanic wonât be a problem. But it seems to me the contrary has happened, with the best players abusing this mechanic more and more.
Not sure if changes are really neccessary or not, but I am looking forward to see what ArcSys do with the game.
Whelp my ps+ ran out, so Iâll probably just be in the lab with yamcha til the next dlc comes out
Started working some yamcha sparking bnbâs. Goes from 2 bars to 0
Probably will do one big video on sparking yamcha at some point. Once I find optimal stuff
Exploring resets against different techs
And 6M combos
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Finally unlocked android 21. First thing I had to do was get the start of the round TOD down lol. Took about 45 minutes
Damn, just found out it works with a 2H starter as well. Just misses the 5 bar meter gain by a tiny amount
Even characters in other games sick of seeing Cell in every match
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Thatâs why you fly up there and punch him in his perfect jawline.
Iâve been saying krillin is good for awhile now. Seems like sonic might be checking him out, read the replies, specifically.
Sonic likes to mess around with everything. He and a few others were on the Hit train before he got nerfed into exile? Typical for him. Least itâs a character that can pew pew the screen and not another HAM rusher with lockdown assist.
Not going to be seeing him winning huge tournaments with Krillin or anything. Heâd have to build an entire team around Krillin and at that point youâre probably using most of the better team you were already using (aka Cell with vegetables/beam/lockdown).
No, krillin would currently work really well in the middle of sonicfoxes team with cell upfront and gotenks or Kid Buu in the back. More than likely could keep Kid Buu. Better anchor anyways and better assist.
Krillen anywhere but point would be kind of dumb unless fox finds some shenanigans with rock assist. Both cell and gotenks assist would actually help krillen a lot.
That actually sounds like a fun team. If I had ps+ i would probably try it out