The Gender /Orientation Thread

General Discussion
141

Not really, I’ve heard of the word before. :sunglasses:

I will admit that I hate the word gamer but what you said is quite a mouthful, when you could just say, “I play videogames.”

Just a thought.

This just makes you sound like you’re comfortable in your masculinity.

I disagree with this, mainly because men having money is a huge factor for women. It’s not that I’m against it, it’s just that I think it’s impractical is all. To each their own though.

That’s always going to happen, it largely depends on how the person looks, but men are more likely to do that to women, so that’s why the stigma exists. Women do it to, but just not as often.

Only if it’s taken to an exclusionary extreme. Otherwise all genders are expressions of humanity.

That’s all fine and well, but it seems to me the greater advantage would be to pay for at least the first couple of dates to let them know they are worth your time and money. Also depends on the chick though, some prefer to split 50/50, but if they are just paying for it all the time when you could, then that is just unfair.

How do you know if being agendered is threatening in circumstances or not if you’ve never been threatened from it? If people automatically assume you’re male and you “mock” as you say, the gender, aren’t you in fact acting male, and inasmuch, being male and not agender?

You would have to be portraying yourself being neither male or female, but the characteristics you claim about yourself really don’t sound all that agender to me.

Sorry if I sound a little blunt.

142

I have seen 4 transgendered people a day since this thread popped up. What the fuck?

143

Ok, I see his point now, he doesn’t consider gender important. He doesn’t feel one way or the other about it.

That’s what I got from it at least.

It’s because you’ve been looking. :sunglasses:

144

You’re straw manning my post. Gender is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT. Sex is not. The gaze of the other is necessary to the construction of gender. Quit being a damned hipster who’s an anti-hipster. The Maasai people have men who gossip a lot and are more ornamental in dress compared to their women. A typical western man might be femme there.

The Score is:
Schaudenfraud 2 Pherai 0 Tanner 0

145

No it’s not you fucking idiot

146

Sigh

Oh boy.

Agreed with Tanner other than the fucking idiot part.

Gender largely has a basis in hormones, chemicals and other such things I don’t have a full comprehension of.

147

Thing is, I hate when people bullshit and ignore the proven differences between the genders in the name of “enlightenment” or political correctness. Just because these morons got a C in sociology 101 at junior college doesn’t make their bullshit any less bullshit.

148

I also forgot to mention that gender is also in part, nurtured as in nature vs nurture.

My own made up number for how gender is produced, would be like…60% biological and 40% environmental.

149

Yeah, pretty sure tons of women can’t even read, nor can they do logical thinking and agumentation like lawyers, and tons of men doing women’s jobs like nursing and teaching isn’t normal oh wait wrong time period and maybe even culture.

150

What each gender does or ‘should do’ is a social construct of which has changed a great deal over history and it will never stop. Gender itself is usually used to identify sexes, not what someone does.

151

Not too long ago your profession (or lack of, if you were female for the most part) determined your gender and was actually the largest part of it. Your sex obviously determined your profession and then your profession accentuated your gender because of manly or womanly characteristics of the job.

Notice how hairstylists are barbers have different words for the same thing? It’s because they are the same thing, binary culture just likes to make extra terms in order for the gender status quo to not be threatened.

Funny thing is, hairstylists cut mostly female, but also male hair, but barbers probably only cut male hair. They both are just haircutters, but it’s the male haircutter that was given the term “barber” that is the contrast of the standard “hairstylist.”

I would argue that the barber is the contrast because they inclusively cut men’s hair, instead of everyone’s hair.

Quoting this part again to bring up another point.

That in itself is slowly changing as well because of the public becoming more aware of intersex people and other sexual orientations other than hetero/homo/bisexual.

You can’t fully identify a sex within the gender binary system if the the body of the person is neither fully male or female, as determined by that system.

It would be interesting to see brain activity differences between cisgendered people and noncisgendered (can’t remember a better term ATM) people.

152

It is more or less the same thing, though what defines gender will always change. I would agree with the accentuation of roles at the workplace though as I find that. especially in the industry I work in, that some roles are amplified or clearly defined. Then again, this is at work after all and when you are working, you more or less have to adhere to the terms and conditions of your contract and must carry yourself accordingly whereas outside of work, you can do pretty much whatever.

I thought barbers were hairstylists that deal only with male hair. Of course, it is a term for the mans role of hairstyling, but as gender roles have changed, so have roles at the work place. Chairwomen are often called Chairmen still.

It is just more sub-groups getting recognized - much like there are different subgenres to genres of music. They have always been there but never had a name. It is great that other identities are being acknowledged now as people need to get on board with the fact that…everyone is different. Everyone!

The gender binary system is defined - differently - by each person that identifies you as an individual. We know there is no definite system and there never will be. There are so many things that people do that overlap into their non-designated gender role they do not even realize. In the end it really does boil down to what is below the waist even though one should be respected as their own, rather than what sex they are home to.

Brain studies are always interesting - but I find with just about anything, there are just things in life that people like or want. Personally, living as a woman now and doing the usual things that I like doing is amazing and I would not change that for anything.

153

Continuing the book, I’ve been neglecting it this weekend.

On crossdressing and sexism;

The book made the point that when girls, i.e. tomboys, wear pants and t-shirts, play sports, etc… that it doesn’t reduce any of their other feminine qualities, just like a man wearing women’s clothing or having hobbies that are typically considered for girls doesn’t actually reduce any of his masculine qualities. The book outlined the double standard with this reason.

We live in a sexist culture, geared towards masculinity more than towards men. Women dressing as men isn’t a threat to masculinity becase they are perceived as** embracing** it, but when men dress girly or like a woman it is seen as a threat to masculinity, because it, in the eyes of the culture, reduces their masculinity, if not downright erases it.

So basically femininity is seen as second class gender, but their status is “upgraded” or at the very least ignored so to speak when they dress like males.

This begs the question, if women can wear men’s clothes, thereby making men’s clothes neutral, and women wearing women’s clothes is still acceptable, doesn’t that mean that instead of masculinity being the superior and default gender, that it’s actually the more neutered or ambiguous gender?

Men can’t wear women’s clothes, because they are only applicable to women, but women can wear men’s clothes because they applicable to men and women.

The message either way is that it is superior to be masculine, or at least to attempt to be masculine.

The author of the previous book I read stated that male could possibly even not be seen as a gender at all largely by males, of course, and that female is the “real” gender, being the absence of all things male; making maleness something beyond gender, in terms of allowing any sort of negative stigma to effect it. None of this is literal but more along the lines of philosophical or metaphysical, in my humble opinion.

I think that would mean that any genuine acknowledgement of gender is seen as unmanly or more accurately “rocking the boat.” The author also said that men doing manly jobs don’t realize it is for manly reasons and in manly ways, and not just reasons and ways they thought were correct. Men in general do not pick apart and analyze their gender, because to them it’s a given. I know this is long-winded, but I’m trying to get my points across in as many ways as possible to make it easier to understand.

Their ways were just their ways, not manly ways. He explained it more concisely when he said, “The fish is the last to realize that it lives in water.”

Thoughts?

154

Basically what they do or why they do it does not get questioned - it just gets done because it is the norm. Some people will ask things like ‘but you can do that as a man’ but never question themselves about the question they have just made. Is one implying that you cannot do the things you want as a woman? Is your primary sexual characteristic that important to other people? Some people simply do not want to live this or that way and should not be forced to adopt such lifestyles if they do not want to.

155

Your post may make me considering asking myself would I would do as a woman, just to see what conclusions I come to, whether they be imagined or not.

156

Ask yourself an even better question - what would you do? Forget what you would do as a man or a woman. It is your personal action that defines you at the end of the day, if it coincides with the roles of whichever gender, then that is how it is. If this decision has a different effect for your designated gender and that general census changes in the future, then you may very well be conforming more to the opinion held with the opposite gender instead.

One should not be rated on their sexuality because functionally, everyone is the same.

157

I already do that pretty much.

There are very few times where I remember asking myself how I should feel as a man about situations.

158

You would only ask that if you wanted to be more like a man ‘should’ be. If you simplify a question you often get a much clearer answer :slight_smile:

159

If both sexes can do it, I don’t see why they don’t. Gender tradition nonsense angers me. You’ve probably experienced it. A woman encounters a problem and she simply doesn’t even try to figure it out. She automatically defaults to asking a man. Another gender “norm” is when women ask a guy to do something for them that they can easily do themselves. They’ll smile and such to play men. If you refuse, you’re an asshole and not a gentleman. Now this has in turned made some men into the same kind of foul creature a lazy woman is. The man now feeling played will sink to her level and will do favors in exchange for sex.

As a person who works out, not to seduce females, but because of personal satisfaction and health benefits, seeing women play this “weaker sex” role also pisses me off. So many see things like sweating, working out, having muscle as a “manly” thing. So when I see these everyday women prance around staying horribly out of shape even into their later years, it angers me. They’ll make sure they either stay fat or stay slim and keep doing they’re make up and hair. Never once stepping into a gym. I’m not implying being buff, ripped, having a body of iron. Just basic exercise.

I don’t see the point in viewing things that both sexes can do as being divided by gender. I look at it as what an adult should do. If men are to be expected to not whine and bitch and to not throw hissy fits and not being highly emotional, then women should be held to that same standard. I was talking about to someone else and I said it’s like when you’re a male, you’re held to a higher standard in which you will get a harsher punishment but women can do the same thing and get some slack. This girl at work wouldn’t keep her damn hands off my arms. I’m talking feeling me up, smacking my ass, hounding me like a shadow. No matter what I said, she wouldn’t stop. Now, if the roles were reversed, I would have lost my job.

160

The world we live in.

In my transition I still do the same things I enjoy, plus any additional things that I like that comes with the transition. Personall, I feel not that much different but as you see the world from a different perspective a lot of things you may have thought about becomes clear.

I believe strongly in equality and individuality - I see no point in giving people special favours because of this or that, they will be treated as individuals on the same scale. I love it when a female who is physically stronger than a male does not have to carry anything and the guy has to carry everything. Look, if you have some muscle, do some work. Females may have less upper-body strength compared to most males, but if you are clearly more capable of doing something then I expect you to pull your weight.

I still wish to help at whatever I can and what-not as I genuinely want to. But when the gender role kicks in it begins to deny me of freedoms I know I can have, but general society does not want me to be a part of.