Not that it makes anyone feel better, but that stuff is usually timed exclusive.
It’s frustrating not because I’m failing to see your point. It’s frustrating for you because you’re failing to realize that you need to support your point with more than you have.
I see mowr getting a bit salty, I see you attempting to find the most ways possible to repeat basically the same point. I see hubcap being smart, accepting that our opinions are just opinions, and just betting on which way things will turn out.
I’m not telling you to stop conjecturing over whether the Gem blocks high/low for you, because I’m also guessing that it does. And even if it does, it’s still not a big deal.
What you don’t realize is that you haven’t explained why spending your meter to potentially block a limited number of mixups is a particularly big deal. You act as if it’s some sort of common knowledge that blocking mixups are a big deal, but you provide no reasoning why this is any more important than meter management in SFxT. You don’t explain why mixup, which is not guaranteed damage to start with, is any more important than punishing, footsies, or frame traps, in SFxT. Do I expect you to be able to? LOL, no! The game isn’t out yet, and by percentages, it’s a safe bet you haven’t even played any prototype builds. And nobody has played a build with Gems yet. Which makes your attitude as if your opinion is some kind of foregone conclusion (when you have little to nothing to base it on) completely ridiculous.
That you cannot see how ridiculous your overreaction is, despite the amount of time we’ve spent on this discussion is what would be frustrating. Fortunately, I’m a tenacious individual with a cool head that doesn’t get frustrated over internet discussions.
So I’ll make it easy.
Explain:
- Why using meter to block a mixup is so much more advantageous than using meter for damage, tagging safely, invincible reversals, cross assaults, etc.
- Why mixups are more important than other ways of scoring damage, in SFxT.
- How using a mixup that takes away your opponent’s meter is not still to your advantage.
- Why using other options that do not waste meter and/or Gem slots to escape oki (tech rolling, EX reversals, knockdown tagging, etc) are not more useful than auto-blocking it.
- How you know that out of the 200+ Gems there supposedly are, and all the effects they give (speed, meter, attack, defense increases, other CPU assists), the ability to spend 1/3 of your meter to cover your ass if you block wrong once is better than the majority of them.
Until you can explain that, I maintain your estimate that Auto-Block (as we have described it working) is ridiculously good, will be one of the best Gems to use, or even a good Gem at high level play, is nothing more than you overreacting, and not taking the rest of the game into account.
I predict that Auto-Block will be mediocre at best. Not because guaranteed blocking a few mixups isn’t good, but because *the other options that meter and Gem slots give you in this game will be as good or better. *Knowing firsthand how much damage meter can get you, and how many openings spending meter can eliminate, I’m calling that Auto-Block will not be worth the cost.
Bet it.
This.
Also this (2:40):
[media=youtube]mi2xyMkme1A[/media]
As for the option to not pick any Gems, I thought that was obvious. In the NYCC demonstration, Seth and Ono explicitly demonstrated the scenario where a lesser player with Gems fights a more experienced player *without any equipped, *in order to give the lesser player a fighting chance.
Also, Seth has said on more than one occasion that even with pre-order gems, the same options will be available to everyone. Whether that’s bullshit or not, we’ll see.
Blocking indeed plays a very important role in winning any match. I do not question nor challenge this fact at all. The question that we should be asking ourselves, all speculation aside, is if the cost of one stock per auto-block will be worth it at high level play or not. It’s pretty hard to judge that at this point because we do not know how exactly this gem is going to work. Capcom has stated that it works when the player is in a state where he can block so I’m assuming when the stick is in the neutral position (debatable), no buttons are being pressed and the character is on his/her feet and grounded. Another reason we cannot come to any conclusions right now is that we simply do not know what the other 200+ gems are and how different combinations are going to work. Here’s a pretty likely scenario, building a team and its gems around using Cross Arts to remove the possibility of your opponent regenerating a character’s grey health by tagging out. Maybe that player is using a combination of CG gems that give him meter faster and Strength boosting gems to increase his damage. I believe these kinds of possibilities are quite interesting to explore and speculate over while we wait for more info.
I have explained this very very carefully, multiple times. In summary once again; the ability to block mixups for “free” is such an extremely powerful thing that it simply doesn’t matter what else the meter is going to be used for. This is because to be of equivalent or greater benefit, anything I gain from having the extra bars must be better than the ability to autoblock. Since that would have to be something crazily strong (basic knowledge of fighting games tells you this), this is highly, highly unlikely. It is definitely possible that there is some gem or combination of gem even more powerful, but that would have to be such an insane option once again that I cringe to think about it. Your problem is the complete inability to appreciate the effect autoblock would have on a fighting game, you think that you are being fair somehow in your assesment by being “reasonable” about it and balancing options well. This is really annoying because it totally ignores how fighting games are actually played in favor of discussing mechanics vs. each other without realizing their relative worth.
So: 1) Read previous posts, 2) Read previous posts, starting quite far back in the thread (I didn’t say this, but you will have your answer regardless), 3) It is, you just have no clue about the dynamics of this advantage (relative worth again), 4) Where do I even begin with this question? It’s like you just read about fighting games somewhere and never actually played one. Do you understand the worth of being able to auto-guess high/low? But to just directly answer your question, of course it’s fucking better if you don’t end up using meter to get out of a situation… the situation is common to both 2d and 3d fighters in BILLIONS of games regardless. Now if someone *doesn’t know what the hell they are talking about, *their next question would invariably be “but how do you know it will be that way in SFxT?” at which point a wiser man should probably just shut up and leave.
The most bothersome part is someone thinking the autoblock mechanic as-it-is is not particularly strong considered in a vacuum (even ignoring other stuff). If someone agrees with me on how the gem might work and is not immediately horrified I would have doubts they took fighting games very seriously or is giving the matter no thought.
Despite your apparently lofty belief that since no one knows any better so discussion is pointless, I’ll take a shot at it:
- Assuming the scenario that you presented, I.E. I am now using a meter to block a mixup none of those other things are a possibility except the reversal. Which also costs a meter. And can be blocked. And if its anything like Marvel I may not know which side you’re on. So the cost of that meter is now ‘not getting hit’ The exact value of which will depend on how much damage that particular hit was worth. Keep this part in mind. And apparently the value is high given your claims that dmg is so high with meter.
- Its hard to say, all I know is from the sample combos they give. One comes to mind, I think it was…yoshi and raven or something and they’re switching in and out to keep up the hits. Is it not impossible to imagine that instead of hitting you he could…teleport behind you? Well that’d be annoying to get hit by no? Regular methods of damage are also important, but mixups y’know. Those tend to be pretty important too. Also its a players goal to keep pressure on. Don’t suggest that a wide variety of oki escapes will keep you safe. The options presented in the game are not new and don’t even include air teching. Don’t assume a good player will let you go so easily.
- Again this depends on how safe/unsafe mixups are. If they’re unsafe then y’know. Awesome. Even if they’re minus that’s still not so bad for me. Also recall I still get to block normally. It only effects me if I block WRONG. Thus saving me damage. Which is apparently a lot. You are right aren’t you?
- Why not have both? Also see 2
- This is a throwaway, but I’ll say this. If you consider it mediocre and that there are gems BETTER than it. Well that’s fairly scary, no?
Anyone else wondering how in the hell they managed to have over 100 gems in the first place?
Speed/damage/defense boosts are a given, auto block auto tech. Longer pandora mode? more damage on special moves only?
I’m sort of curious to know the list of gems even though GEMS SUCK.
Blocking a combo starter reduces opponent’s combo damage by 100%, for 1 EX bar.
I’m interested to see how important Alpha Counters / Tag Cancels are in this game. SSFIV Cammy was an absolute nightmare if your character didn’t have a safe FADC’able reversal (and even then she was tough). She’ll still have her TKCS (and I’m guess ambiguous x-ups) in this game, and it’ll probably be even easier to confirm her strings into big damage. So, who cares if you auto-block saves you once from an ambiguous x-up? Because it’s off a light kick, block stun runs out before her next move comes out (which will probably be a low, or a TKCS crouch tech blow up) so absolute guard isn’t gonna save you. In other words, if characters like SSFIV Cammy are in this game and Alpha Counters / Tag Cancels are like safe FADCs, you would definitely not want to use auto-block.
Hmmm, auto tech grab sagat and auto guard with king?
Or stopping power with sagat and commando pro with king?
Lmao.
So, what would make anyone not want to equip gems over equiping them, apart from making things faster at tournaments?
Is there a ratio system that gives you a different kind of benefit for not having any gems, like going solo in CVS2 against a team of 3?
I’m wondering how realistic it is that you get put into a 50/50 without the opponent having even hit you.
Nah, the issues I originally had with the game’s gimmicks like gem system is 1 thing, and 1 thing only…
$$$$
And I don’t even think it’ll contribute to the game as a tourney worthy title.
But who knows, it would be the most amazing fun game ever.
I just don’t wanna die from some dude who doesn’t know how to block, so his gem compensate his lack of fundamental sf skill and knocks me out with Hugo with a all star amazing everything gem he played from adventure mode and bought for $50.
Imagine there’s a gem that allows u to eat 1 hit reduce damage without block stun.
Gief and Hugo be eating shorts and jabs for free an mashing spd. It’s gonna be hilarious, but that’d be such a scrubby style I cannot respect. I dunno, fun for trolling. We’ll see. Lmao.
Nope, no benefits. It’s strictly a “make your own rules” thing, as far as we know.
xbox has the ability to have your profile on memory card so wheres the problem with integrating a system using memory cards?
ps3 is a selfish machine by default but there must be some way to integrate a system that can transfer profile data via USB stick
in fact why don’t they both try to implement a system that transfers data via usb across systems?
whats wrong with everyone carrying around their usb stick to tournaments? people are complaining with no suggestions
It wouldn’t be a problem for me since my keys and USB are always on me. Who knows, maybe they did think of that.
I’d rather gems just get banned at tournaments and we can forget the entire headache that comes with them. There’s gonna be enough whining over the characters.
Have fun with them online or whatever, go ahead, that’s okay, but seriously they’ll be more trouble than they’re worth at a tournament.
Thank god they do care about what we say. Gem system is good but it is way better as an option.
Now the only thing they have to change is my inclusion in the game and I’ll be tremendously happy.
This game is so incredibly gimmicky and flashy.
I don’t think people will take it seriously, but I’m sure it’ll be a blast casually.
When I first heard about auto-block, I just thought, that’s nice for newbies but I’ll probably never touch it, but the more I think about it, the more I am inclined to agree that it will be OP (not necessarily broken, we’ll see).
fallot has already gone over all if not most of this, but let me put it this way: Meter seems really important in this game, but damage seems really high too, now considering that combos seems quite easy for high damage (LMHH tag H x Special, etc.) you can fairly safely assume that each attack you take could lead to 60+% damage on one of your characters.
Now if someone has insanely good blocking skills, they are not going to be spending meter on defense. Likely they are also trying to land hits on you and building meter throughout, now when you finally get a clean hit in, they auto block and you are denied your 60% combo on them. They are down a meter, but so what, they have 60% more life to gain that meter back with (through fighting actions, not as some kind of trade). Even if it is their last meter, if their blocking skills are good, it’s not going to matter much, they’ll be blocking you regardless.
Don’t forget, people with autoblock can still use tag cancels and alpha counters assuming they haven’t wasted all their meter on autoblocking, and if they have, they would likely be dead by that point anyway.
Would anyone here trade two bars of meter for 100% health? Right now, that’s how I see it at it’s most basic.
Pandora will likely screw this all up even further, especially when we get into Pandora gems: longer Pandora time, Pandora at 50% health, No sacrifice Pandora, Pandora damage boost, Pandora super/hyper armour, etc. this shit will happen (or similar).
Regarding auto-block gem.
It’s going to depend on three main things imo: meter:damage output; meter generation speed and how the frame data works for auto-blocking (are you on plus/minus/even; is there some form of push-block?) in the final version.
Right now, personally I think it is way too good a gem for only 1 bar (whiffing normals builds meter and you can probably get more than 3 bars per round anyway just by playing “normally”; charging specials gives you a meter-less super and magic combo series for safe meter-less tags -> getting damage and spending meter isn’t an issue it seems; plus you only have to kill 1 character to win…)
Very powerful tool for good players using characters with weak/no reversal options. Maybe too powerful…
If damage is toned down so that spending meter is the best way to get damage on the opponent, then it will provide a nice trade off in terms of what to spend your meter on. Similarly, if meter generation is low (maybe prevent whiffed normals from generating meter?), then the gem won’t be as much of a get-out-of-jail free card.
Otherwise, I will only be using Guile and Dhalsim both stocked with 5 auto-block gems each, Good-freakin’-games son!
EDIT: watched some nycc footage; whiffed moves do not build meter. Hopefully, they will keep it that way in final version.