Tier list are hardly ever based on results.
You can identify and discuss tools and the importance of them in regards to Skullgirls.
Tier list are inferences/opinions and are not concrete. They are meant to change. Just make sure you’re able to explain your reasoning.
Yeah, it still seems as if people dont understand tier lists at all. Like they’ve never been in on an early tier list before. (unofficial tier lists have been a standard before srk, all the way back to your local laundrymat where the best player used gief and so everyone thought gief was the best at your spot)
Anyways i just think that if folks want to make tier lists, then atleast put the reasoning behind each characters placement ie tools they have that others dont, matchups… Esoteric factors etc. simply listing parasoul as high tier…( which i still dont agree with) doesnt make sense… At least show the advantages they have over others and the same to the characters at the bottom. ( ie WHY is peacock bottom?)
Tier lists that have no explanation are basically useless.
Anyways ima post a revised tier list based on the one that i already did, double at top and cock at the bottom. Have to get it in order first and start writing out explanations.
-dime
No, but tier lists are based around the versatility and technology discovered in characters, which in turn influences the results of majors. With everyone still coming to grips with an entirely new game, I’d imagine it would take a few months to flesh out what every character can really do, even at a mediocre level of play.
Uh…you do realize that tierlists aren’t meant to be set in stone, right?
There is no such thing as “too early” for tierlists. There are Day 1 tierlists. Doesn’t mean they’ll be accurate in the long run…
The fact that they are inaccurate is the reason they shouldn’t exist, IMO.
Please, no debating why there should or should not be tier lists. This is one reason why I didn’t have a tier list thread in the beginning and a certain SOMEONE went ahead and made one anyway without consent. Please, only post your opinions and stop your ramblings.
-Tha Hindu
Team: Painwheel/Parasoul
Character: Painwheel
Rank: A
**Reasoning: **Painwheel has nearly everything going for her with a good assist. She has high damaging combos even post patch, she has THE best air mobility, frightening resets and mixups that can go every which way, a combo-able throw (which makes her resets even more scary), great corner carry, is a great battery because she can just reset/mixup you to death, super armored normals, and some of THE best air normals IMO which cover ridiculous ranges. There are only 3 things really that are wrong with her and that is that she is assist reliant, has laughable assists, and has bad defense. These are glaring, but nothing that can’t be covered by Parasoul’s Pillar. Her neutral game pretty much comes down to comes down to “Hey, at least she has a projectile”, so it’s not something to write home about. She is made for offense and is complimented by Parasoul nicely.
Character: Parasoul
Rank: A
**Reasoning: **Parasoul is arguably the most balanced character in the game. She has good rushdown and mixups with her great overheads, fast lows, and strong combos. Her neutral game is great with tears and shots with fast recovery, and tear explosion have a lot of block stun to keep the opponents out (pre-patch). She has great anti-airs in Pillar and cr.hp and her hypers are some of the best IMO. Motorcycles are a safe DHC option to get Painwheel out and her shot hyper punish most approaches. She does need meter to really instill fear in her zoning, but that is what Painwheel does in this team, build the meter that Parasoul burns on her great hypers.
Overall, these 2 are definite BFF’s next to Peacock/Double and fit together perfectly.
The IPS change will pretty drastically change the way everyone uses over half the cast. Not debating or trying to tell anyone what to do, but… everything everyone thinks now will more or less become obsolete in 4-6 weeks (roughly guessing/hoping on time frame).
ASSISTS:
**Character: Painwheel **(I don’t play this character)
Rank: C
**Reasoning: **Painwheel appears to be much more commonly used on point than for an assist. Moves that would potentially be strong assists can only be used at their uncharged levels, such as her projectiles, pinion dash, and her armored normals. Her c.MP can be used as a short ranged lockdown assist, but other characters provide better assists for that purpose. She can provide ground bounces or freeze states for combo extension with her c.HP and qcf+LP respectively, but this will limit what teams she can work with to ones that already have ways to get in.
**Character: Ms. Fortune **(I don’t play this character)
Rank: B
**Reasoning: **Fiber Upper looks like a useful AA assist with good stunt double potential, but without a knockdown, following up with the point character is more difficult. Cat Strike’s invulnerability with stagger opens up some options for combo extension or reversals but it cannot be spammed like other good assists.
SINGLES:
Character: Cerebella
Rank: B
Reasoning: The only safe blockbuster she has is her level 3. There are some issues with anti-air against fast multi hitting attacks at IAD height. Against strong keep-away her horizontal approach options need to be committed to; the command run, lock and load, j.HP glide are all vulnerable to the correct responses. That said, her double jump makes dash-jumping a viable approach in many cases. Her normals have good range, hitstun, and recovery; j.MP is especially useful, as is c.LK. She has some unsafe mixups, left/right with Kanchou, high/low with Pummel horse. The strength of the character comes from the ability to add an unreactable 50/50 to the end of block strings and some blocked pokes (j.MP again). While pushblock can prevent that secondary mixup sometimes, Cerebella can choose when to end a blockstring to make the timing guesswork as well. The command run also gets around pushblock if it’s expected.
Character: Parasoul
Rank: A
**Reasoning: **Parasoul is a well rounded character with high damage output, strong resets, and good zoning game. Her only weakness is her air mobility which can be somewhat compensated for by using the right distance to switch between zoning and pressure. Her dash-jump into j.HK is one way to transition between those tactics. Against other projectile users, Egret Charge can be used as cover for an approach or as a distraction to set up Napalm Tears. Against rushdown, her Napalm Pillar has it’s uses, as does Motor Brigade which is safe on block. Her Silent Scope blockbuster is unsafe on block, but will win most if not all trades.
Character: Double
Rank: B
Reasoning: Double has great tools to take control of a situation with Catellites and Hornet Bomber, but struggles somewhat with approaching from full screen without burning excess meter. Her mid-range control is strong thanks to j.HP, c.LK and HP are also notably useful normals due to their range. Zoning from full-screen is not as effective without Catellites to cover the ground, but due to gaining meter during that blockbuster (for now) Double can be run fairly effectively as a run away character building up meter and getting chip once the blockbuster is available. She has a strong reset game, but her mixups are not as dangerous without assists to abuse her dash with.
By the way people, tier lists only work when you tier EVERYONE in the game.
THE MORE YOU KNOW.
SINGLES:
**Character: Ms. Fortune **(I don’t play this character)
Rank: A
**Reasoning: **It’s been a while since I fought one, but she definately had good pressure while solo. I’m inclined to take guitalex’s word for it about having tools for different matchups, though I do wonder about full on runaway where the person running pays attention to the head getting small hits on it to add up. Having an air-ok blockbuster helps against some resets, I don’t know if any of the blockbusters are safe on block though. A bit more specialised than Parasoul, but definately strong as a solo.
**Character: Painwheel **(I don’t play this character)
Rank: C
**Reasoning: **Painwheel has strong pressure, good damage and nice quick resets. Her air mobility allows her to run away fairly well, and having access to armor in the air is a unique ability. However, her attack vectors are kinda limited to between the angles of her forward unfly+j.MP and almost vertical. This means that when against strong AA assists, her approach can be made difficult. Her projectiles have occasional uses, such as trading with Napalm shot to remove tear drops, or preventing an air based approach but are not threatening as a zoning tool without an assist. On the defensive she lacks an invulnerable meterless reversal. She might be B tier if her armored air normals can be used to reliably get through anti-air attempts, but I suspect she will still have trouble against Cerebella’s AA grab.
**Character: Peacock **(I don’t play this character)
Rank: C
**Reasoning: **Peacock has more movement options than most characters, and can retreat in the air quite quickly. Her chip damage and screen coverage is great, she builds meter very well (for now) and her full screen super makes mistakes while getting in on her costly. Her unique normals such as j.MK and j.HK give her some mixup potential, but against teams with AA assists this will not be very viable. Her qcf+LP is her reversal, but it doesn’t cover much, and her teleport is more useful for getting out of bad situations early. Without an assist, the teleport is quite punishable, so solo Peacock struggles when put under pressure.
**Character: Valentine **(I don’t play this character)
Rank: B
Reasoning: Valentine’s movement can be tricky to get away from or keep up with. Her air-ok projectile can be a nuisance if she runs away, and her air-ok blockbusters can discourage some airborne resets. Her reset game is good but not the best, I think Parasoul’s is more solid, and Painwheel’s is quicker, and Filia’s is better against airborne opponents. Her many multi-hit normals mean that to get good damage she needs to go for resets or give the opponent quite a lot of meter, but it also allows her to beat out bad assist calls and armoured moves more easily. She doesn’t have a good anti-air option as far as I know.
**Character: Filia **(I don’t play this character)
Rank: B
Reasoning: Filia’s speed makes her a threat once she gets in. j.HP and j.HK are useful for the high/low mixup, j.MP crosses up and beats Armour. Her reset game is very strong midscreen, and she can burn meter that she builds with resets as well. Her dp is fast and can be cancelled to blockbuster for a full combo. Since IAD is the common way to approach with Filia, she is somewhat predictable and can be vulnerable to zoning. Hairball on the ground goes under most projectiles, but until she is within that range, her options are limited to dashing and crouching/blocking, or against Parasoul using Ringlet Spire.
Except there are 92 possible combinations, and the OP asked to submit data for solos, teams and assists. Oh, and every attack is an assist that ca be listed. So every submitted post should be 2000 entries long?
The purpose of this thread is to give reasoning for high or low tier placement. It was never to ask for absolutely everyone’s complete tier lists.
fuck that everyone write a book
People need to give a complete tier list just so we understand their perspective on all characters and not just a select few chosen ones.
Alright, I’ll get to writing that 2000-entry tier list. Maybe it will be done in 10 years.
People don’t need to give their tier lists, frankly because the tier lists weren’t asked for. Additionally, not everyone knows everything about everyone, so I wouldn’t trust a single person’s opinion of a character. Consider that most think Fortune is mid to bottom tier. Then they play me, who plays solo Fortune, see things they’ve never seen before and go “wow, she’s a lot better than I thought”.
Which is why I would only trust input from players about their own characters, and not just some opinions sewn up for completion’s sake.
Just about to say that. People can only be trusted to truly know two, maybe three characters as well as they need to for an opinion to be anywhere close to trusted at this point.
Yeah, this thread isn’t supposed to be a full break down on each character from every person. I mean, there are some people that actually are competent with the information they produce and a good amount of people that might as well just start urinating on their keyboard. Keep the information listed to the characters you know a solid amount about. Tell us why you think that character is good or bad, why this person has a good variation of assists or not, or why they play well or not solo. Don’t be hindered by others comments, people love to be critics. Just post what you feel like stating. Everything will definitely be taken in to account.
-Tha Hindu
Okay, for you post-09ers, this is how a tier list works:
–A tierlist ranks EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER in the game based on total ability. In a team-based game, this includes not only their value as a character but also the overall value to a team.
–Ease of use does not matter. Top tier characters can be braindead (MvC3) or the hardest character in the game to master (Jojo’s sans Petshop, arguably HnK). A character being easy to use does not make them “better” for the purposes of tiers.
–A tierlist is not set in stone. It is always organic. There is a Day 1 tierlist. There is a Day 2 tierlist. There is a Day 1000 tierlist. They may stay the same, or they may not.
–Tiers are a consensus. Not by one single player, but a group of them. Preferably top players with experience. That doesn’t mean a single player can’t make a tierlist. That doesn’t mean an individual player needs to master every single character in the game before their opinion has any merit.
–Tournament results matter but are not absolute. If there is evidence that a character may have untapped potential that hasn’t been utilized yet in tournament play, then that could affect tier placement.
–If you make a tierlist, try to give reasons. Discussion and evidence is what polishes a tierlist. That means my tierlist might not agree with yours. That means I may know something you may not know, and you may know something I do not know.
This is what a tier list should look like:
SKULLGIRLS (Current Pre-Patch Tierlist)–
A+ Tier
–Parasoul
(One of the best assists in the game, also one of the best point characters in the game, well-rounded, good damage, probably best set of normals in the game, decent at zoning)
–Ms. Fortune
(Ridiculous loops, insane mixup/resets/pressures. OM NOM NOM is borderline broken. Would be higher if she was better as an assist and better ways around zoning)
–Peacock
(Excellent zoning and runaway, but has problems against pressure w/o an assist. Also somewhat reliant on meter but able to generate it herself. Possibly the best battery character in the game, unquestionably the best zoner. Worst match-up in the game for a lot of characters)
A Tier
–Painwheel
(Great point character, has problems with zoning and assists, probably has the most potential to rise.)
–Cerebella
(Has a variety of tools and disgusting damage. Doesn’t change the fact that she has the worst mobility and loses hard to zoning. She’s a solid assist character and battery (since she doesn’t need a lot of meter to do great damage), so she works best as a support character and as a point character she relies on assists to cover her glaring weaknesses.
–Double
(Current best assist character in the game, great supers–but hands down the worst point character in the game, especially without meter or assists)
B+ Tier
–Filia
(Well-rounded, but doesn’t do anything any other character can’t do better. Her normals are fairly slow for a character meant for rushdown but having a great DP helps turn the tide. Overall Ms. Fortune seems to be stronger in her niche, although Filia has the better AA option and mobility)
–Valentine
(Great mobility/speed for someone with the range of her normals but lacks the hard damage. Shots are great but require you to give up momentum and spacing in order to prepare them. Supers aren’t that great and her value as an assist in lacking. Like Double, requires meter to be effective but not great at building it on her own)
EDIT: Ah, forgot Painwheel.
No name calling, let’s please keep this thread civil.
Thank you for supplying us with your tier list information. Very thorough, just the way I like it :).
-Tha Hindu
I can’t believe I’ve lived to see the day someone would have to explain to SRK, of all places on the internet, how to make tierlists.