You should also have read what I considered I said they should proportion it so that 2 hits from the same move is 1 hit or 3 = 1 hit that way it can still scale,but as of now it scales too hard.Heck even making it so that her multihit moves counts as X amount of as it’s own would be better XD. I don’t know what you mean by Chun doing a lot of damage…have you seen Vergil/Zero/Akuma? They do brain dead easy combos and easily achieve 600k+ damage while Chun has to work her ass off t through all the scaling . Chun is quite frankly not a good standalone character in my opinion, with assists she can be VERY capable but without them her options dwindle. Or maybe it can just count for just hit stun deterioration… This will help her Hoyoukusen be better and viable to combo off of. Sometimes you can’t even combo with hoyoukusen after doing it in a combo because of the hitstun decay/damage scaling :S Maybe it’s just me…
Kikoken overhaul is to help her deal with full screen projectile spam while NOT being a keep away, it’s stupid that Kikoken is so useless in this game, durability is low, low range. I wanted ti dash and jump cancel able so that she can go on the offensive more and lead into it sort of how her SF4 projectile works. Other random buffs varying from speed/distance/etc are nice but not required. However it’s a useless assist and a useless move in my opinion.
I don’t think her level 3’s hit them during the animation I think it’s just the beginning part so I don’t really care LOL. Instantly going into animation is something I prefer because the opponent can very easily be dropped by this and it is very annoying to be put in an unsafe position for no reason.
Kikoanken have you tried that in Xfactor? I mean I don’t mind now but it is very hard to use during xfactor. Making something not as controllable for no reason is just a hindrance? It serves no real purpose being 2x H, it’s hard as heck in xfactor and it’s not hard normally but at least you don’t have to run into accidentally spamming LL. (Happens to me rarely but still warrants). Overall I think Chun needs to be more controllable in XF.
And you don’t find her SF Kikoken pose for her Fierce punch just sexy? O_O I Just wanted that one the rest is fine in my opinion.
So funny story, I actually did get a SUPER severe headache looking at some peoples’ changes for the game yesterday. It was pretty painful, hahaha. I’ve only played Chun for a few months, but I think I can more or less take some shots at what she probably needs. The problem with adjusting Chun-Li is that she is actually quite good, but her character concept doesn’t play to the actual strengths of her design, so she’s this unholy amalgamation of a keepaway character that happens to have rushdown tools. Her specials are mostly all good and have great properties on them; the effects of her moves are consistent and predictable (people don’t randomly drop from her multi-hit moves and even poorly times j.EX Spinning Bird Kicks will grant you extended hitstun, for example); she’s got tons of jump cancels and her airdash is a great mixup tool.
The problem with Chun as a character is not with Chun herself, but the fact that she’s one of those characters that doesn’t benefit from the overall design of the game and from the way other characters are designed. It’s hard to imagine Chun-Li and Nova are in the same game. She has the design for a very aggressive rushdown character, but can’t swing wide enough or cover the angles she needs to in order to be successful in that role. She has to play very defensively and patiently and wait for an opening for a good starter so she can get good damage and DHC out for a KO. If Chun gets worked over, I think her overall character philosophy needs to be looked at first; if she’s meant to be an aggressive character, then I’ve got adjustments for those and if she’s meant to play more passively, I have adjustments for those too.
Aggressive Chun-Li
Kikoken adjustments: Kikoken should travel fullscreen for all strengths with different strengths traveling at different speeds, but universally doing between 80k and 100k (Hadouken does 100k for reference). If not having the damage universal, ten having Kikoken traveling at much faster speeds in exchange for lower overall damage (80k Kikoken that travels at Dagger Toss speed) would work.
Shichisei Renka addition: I would love for Chun to regain this classic move and give her aerial combos that oomph for a finish.
s.:l:, c.:l: and s. adjustments: I would like to see these moves slightly adjusted in order to flesh out her moveset a bit. I would like to see s.:l: adjusted a bit vertically to serve as a situational anti-air, c.:l: to hit low and for s. to hit crouchers more consistently. Chun’s normals are all rather good other than these and all have purposes for her gameplan. Her aerials are also quite good, so I see no need to adjust those.
Spinning Bird Kick/EX Spinning Bird Kick adjustments: Both of these moves are vital to Chun’s combo game, but the grounded versions of these moves are almost detrimental to her and currently serve 0 purpose. Perhaps providing an extremely tight link from grounded Spinning Bird Kick to c.:l: (s.:l: shouldn’t reach even though I think it’s a frame faster) would make this move worth it a little bit. EX Spinning Bird Kick on the ground could deliver spinning knockback that Chun-Li can capitalize off of in the corner while still letting her approach during the spinning knockback if contact is made midscreen. I’m thinking along the lines of Repulsor Spread without the hard (or soft) knockdown property, so you could use EX Spinning Bird Kick as a reversal of sorts that you can combo off of in the corner (or use to change momentum midscreen) with knockback that wouldn’t ignore HSD so that you can’t abuse this in loops or X-Factor.
Airdash adjustments: I would like to see an aggressive Chun use both a forward and an angled airdash. Being able to cover ground without being on the ground is a big deal in this game and Chun-Li isn’t equipped with the low risk options to let her incorporate that kind of movement into her game. I feel that this change alone will go a long way for improving how she plays offensively.
Passive Chun-Li
Kikoanken adjustments: I would like this move to cause spinning soft knockdown if used against an airborne opponent. I know this would mess with some (just some) of her current combo routes, but she could really capitalize off of this in the corner, which is where most passive characters do their damage anyway. If Chun becomes a passive character by design, her early combo routes should focus on delivering opponents to the corner and then the corner shenanigans should start from there. I would also like to see the Kikoken assist replaced with Kikoanken.
Hoyoukusen adjustments: A button-determined dash length for this super would be cool for a more passive Chun-Li. Some invulnerability adjustments would have to be made for half-screen coverage or longer (I don’t think this super should just be a free pass), but it would be very cool to use as a counter super.
Kakurakukyaku adjustments: If there is truly a move that doesn’t see the light of day, it may be this move. If anything, speed this move up and it can become the Hazanshu that everyone seems to want. Regardless, the move certainly needs to speed through its jump arc much faster than it does in order for it to serve as a counter-poke in this game as opposed to Street Fighter. The mixup off of this against a waking up opponent isn’t very strong, but if the animation is replaced by a spinning action for Hazanshu, then this weakness can be addressed through an appropriate hitbox change.
Throw adjustments: It would be awesome if Chun-Li’s ground throws either forced a backward tech roll or threw the opponent further away. This adjustment allows Chun-Li to put herself in the range where when she moves up, she can force an opponent to guess at her offense (or randomly throw out raw :s:, whatever) and she can react to the opponent appropriately. Chun definitely doesn’t have the strength to make someone guess in a reversal situation up close, but she can definitely do it from a distance. A change that is completely just for me would be if her back throw were her recent SF style throws where she kicks the opponent away from her; she would be able to convert off of this in the corner only, but would also put her in position to take advantage of the opponent midscreen without guaranteeing her a combo.
Yesssssss. You described exactly how she;s designed. Almost as if they had some great ideas for what they wanted her to be, but hadn’t completed her to the point that she’s almost, in a way, unfinished.
This is a great post. Gives me something to think about.
While I agree with most of Yannick’s changes, I’d like to comment on some of your changes:
Kikoanken cannot cause spinning soft knockdown because it would cause the move to loop into itself. To prevent such thing, they would have to give her more recoverable frames wich I really dont want to! Would mess up with the raw tag capacibilities.
SBK/ EX SBK should really have the same properties of its airborne version, making it safe on block. Not sure about making it comboable, but it doesnt seem like a big deal if she could do so. EX SBK needs more invincibility frames.
Kakurakukyaku could really become her Hazan Shu we all want. Actually I totally forgot about that move! It should have XF LV3 speed. That would be good and she’d finally have a move to crossup the opponents.
Her ground throw should have the opponents grounded much longer. As it is, its a 2 frame link into the stomp kick, and only possible after a super jump.
I see people complaining a lot about her damage output. Her damage output is fine, I guess.
The real problem is how you start her combos. Most of my confirms come aerial combos, and she has a big problem bringing them down. Also, most of her moves are multi hit, so they start a combo already scaled.
Not to mention Kikoanken gives her the ability to raw tag into someone with a better damage output than her. For example, I can almost kill Thor (the total damage output of the combo is something like 1.180) from a raw tag to Akuma, starting from absolutely 0 meter. The combo builds almost 3 meters!
I cant post this video right now. Im saving it for a combo video. Sorry.
She’s not able to do so if she starts the combo in the air, so people dont stay grounded when they fight me. If I hit them in the air, the damage will be MUCH lower than if I hit them on the ground.
So I think her priorities by now would be:
Air to ground combos.
A better way to deal with keepaway and specially runaway (the Houyoukusen sugestion you guys gave could fix that)
I still stand by my groundbounce Hazanshu. Solves her air-to-ground problem. Solves her mobility/being zoned out/runaway problem. Improves her crossups. And potentially depending on how it works it could help stabilize damage output.
My biggest issue with Chun-Li is her inability to effectively deal with zoning. The Houyoku-sen buff sounds like a good counter to that, sort of like X-23’s Weapon X Prime. I also like the idea of Hazanshu being an overhead that causes a ground bounce. Would it be overkill to give it projectile invulnerability? I can’t decide.
I really have no problem with keepaway. The real problem for me is when a Magneto and friends start running away from her. She’s fast on her dash, but that’s it. They stay aloft, where her combos deal little damage =/
I gotta agree with Brian, When I play my rushdown game and Magneto decides to fly away, I have a really tough time keeping up with him and he can run the clock and just chip away with disruptors for the whole game (or until Chun dies). I also think, for this reason, she needs a small health buff. 950k seems fair for all the work we put in while playing this OTK game.
There is a Magneto player here and fighting him becomes a nightmare because of the clock.
I think Chun-Li is the only character who has only her dash as tool to close in.
So guys, Im gonna start recording stuff soon. I’d like all of you to post your thoughts on changes for Chun-Li and why.
Im going to come up with a list today and will be posting it tomorrow.
I really hope we can reach one single list that pleases everybody, so I can create the video and show what and why Chun-Li need changes.
I perfectly agree with almost all of that. But why no auto jump after Yosokyoku? I actually like that feature. And what’s wrong with the way we input Kikoanken now? I’m fine with the HCF+H add H. Everything else is SPOT ON
I can kinda see where he’s coming from with Yosokyaku because if you don’t hit the move extra deep, the auto jump will take you right over the victim and you won’t be able to combo.
This would effectively remove Chun-Li’s extended air combos and her infinite, but I’m assuming the other buffs listed are a good tradeoff.
You guys got it wrong.
I want the auto-jump to go away ONLY when it hits OTG.
That means it’s EASIER to combo after a hard knockdown from jS, or even after her throws. Also increases her damage output by not needing the Hyakuretsu Kyaku after the Yosokyaku, wich means more multi-hits moves and more damaging scaling.
Kikoanken’s input is a hell in XF LV3. And sometimes I still miss the double H tap. It’s rare, but it happens.
She’s very execution high, a little help in that would be welcome.
@Brian I agree with everything you posted. Some other changes
Hoyoukusen auto jump with holding S similar to how it is for regular launches and Hoyoukusen instead counts as X hits? Rather than all of it…otherwise everything is pretty much spot on
I didnt understand the S thing.
Hoyokusen’s scaling is pretty good, has invincibility frames and would be changed to reach barely full scren. It would make the move just too good.
I would just go out of my way to mention that these are all suggested changes to choose from. If they think we want ALL of these changes then they might dismiss the video.
Should we type out the reasons for each buff so that we can have the proper explanation for each in the video?
adjustments: I would like to see these moves slightly adjusted in order to flesh out her moveset a bit. I would like to see s.:l: adjusted a bit vertically to serve as a situational anti-air, c.:l: to hit low and for s.