The First Lady of Fighting - General Chun-li Discussion

Uh, I’ll try to contribute, but I don’t have the months or years of experience that most people here have. Hopefully they can chime in/correct me/inspire.

1] First and foremost, I think the biggest misconception about Chun is that she’s a heavy rushdown character and I do not think this is true. She has the tools for rush and has some cool 50/50s she can set up (both high/low and left/right) but she has very normal hitboxes in a game where normal is bad, so she can’t swing like most other characters can and she really has to pick her spots. To this end, she needs to play a defensive sort of campy game (in my opinion) using her great mobility and aerial tools to force whiffs that she can punish hard (walljumps, triple jumps, multiple j.Tenshokyaku). Her whiff punish game is pretty excellent and thanks to her Ultimate buffs, she can convert off of most anything (j.Legs to j.:s: to j.EX SBK).

2] I think another misconception (or myth is probably a better term in this case) is that Chun doesn’t do damage. Indeed, Chun actually does a healthy amount of damage (comparable to or even more than Magneto in average instances for much less work in terms of execution) and her super enders give her great options to either DHC (which is pretty standard) or to TAC (which is pretty ridiculous). If you think Chun’s damage is lacking, you may want to invest some time in some beefier combos and team setups. She also has a very useful tool in that she can force a reset situation at almost any point in a combo Skullgirls style with extended Legs (mashed partially) and Yosokyaku–the magic here is that the resets are masked quite heavily with the speed and flow of her combos, making it not entirely obvious as to what’s going on until it happens.

3] You can play Chun wherever, but I’ve only really found her entertaining to use and effective on point. Now, that being said, I think it’s unfortunate that point is also probably her most difficult position to play because both teams are heavily stocked at the start of a match (both assists and a bar for both teams) in terms of resources, so there are more things for Chun to fall prey to. She requires the utmost patience in this position especially due to her HP, so while each position for her has its ups and downs, I think point Chun has the most ups while also having the most downs. Point Chun doesn’t really need a time built around her, but she does almost require a space control assist to pose any sort of threat whatsoever. Chun adds some interesting dynamics to a team even on point, but she needs the space control in order for her to survive long enough to pull her weight. My personal favorite is Jam Session, but some other players enjoy Hidden Missiles, Tatsumaki Zankyaku and Shopping Cart.

4] Wherever you play Chun, you have to intelligently abuse her stuff wherever you can to really get the most out of her. If you have her on point, make sure to pick your spots and take advantage of her ability to snag birthdays with her leg specials (j.SBK, j.EX SBK, kara dash Legs and :l: Tenshokyaku are all GREAT birthday tools) and convert off them into extremely meter positive KOs. If she is your 2nd, make sure to intelligently abuse Legs assist for its hitbox, speed and lockdown properties. USE HER TAC INFINITES. DHC on hits into Senretsukyaku to set up TAC shenanigans. On anchor, you kinda have to play pitbull with X-Factor. If you don’t have the X, you’re probably in a worse spot than you think depending on the situation. Without any assistance, Chun will have to really abuse her JCs and airdashes to create unseeable 4 corner mixups to open your opponents up.

5] Learn how to move. Especially on point, movement will save your life. If you don’t have to block something, don’t. Move out of the way. If anybody can move, Chun certainly can. Learn how to blockstring. Chun has TONS of jump cancels, so employ them in the face of pushblocks and reversal assist calls…you NEVER have any excuse to end a blockstring with an unsafe move. Learn how to punish. 2 frame Tenshokyaku leading to a full combo is pretty friggin great. If you need to punish with an :l: move for some reason, make sure to use c.:l: as it has more range, is faster and is more safe than s.:l: even though neither of them hit low. Speaking of which, learn to poke and hit confirm. You can’t (or I should say, you shouldn’t) use c.:l: for a combo if you are poking it out; it doesn’t hit low and the range is not good for anything but counter hitting or punishing. Dash c.:m: has absolutely stupid range, hits low and is JCable on top of having naturally better proration. If you’re looking for a low poke or combo starter, c.:m: is probably what you should work with. Be careful with using s.:m: in combos as it can whiff at almost any moment for a variety of reasons–substitute another normal if you can for s.:m: in your combos.

That’s most of what I can think of. I don’t know too much about the character, but these are the things that are apparent to me after about a month of trying to dig into what she has to offer. I certainly don’t think she’s as bad as she’s accused of being, but her weakness of not being able to land clean hits very often in a neutral setting is pretty crippling in this game, so if you can make due with that and build a strong team that is not only good for her but one that she can positively contribute to, I think she can be a star player.

Wow, those are some great insights!

Anyhow I was thinking more about actual tech and less about gamplay/mindset

Still, great job breaking her match plan theory

LOL my bad.

I don’t know much about actual tech. I guess just remember to

always TK your j.SBKs and j.EX SBKs
know you can wavedash forward while charging for SBK/EX SBK
kara dash Legs with s.:h:
TAC infinite
know you can chain dash Legs up to four times for lazy combos/birthdays
know you can chain dash Legs up to six times at least in XF
call an assist and stand near a corpse to mixup with crossunder Legs as a welcome mixup
set up guard breaks with Yosokyaku to air dash or Yosokyaku to JC
TAC infinite
get madd +frames with Kikoanken
instant overhead into full combo with j.:l: to j.Legs (you can just mash L)
throw into full combo on large bodies with instant rising Yosokyaku (this move got so buffed it’s crazy)
TAC infinite

That’s all I got, I don’t know that much in depth techy stuff. Lud and Brian probz have a TON of that stuff.

Hey guys!
New reset for you at 8:45:

Wow Brian, I just recently finished to watch your Matches vs Ldo. Math SSj (Dante, Vergil, Strider)

That fight surely was a pain to fight, With strider’s Vajra and that Vergil Beast.
31:31 (when you fired the kikoken and Hoyousen) I still don’t know why it didn’t hit Vergil?
also… EX SBK wasn’t suppose to be Armored? or Inv.? Vergil just Helm breaker on it like nothing. Maybe I just don’t know the exact frames

too bad that you lost the ft10 :frowning: but you were impressive as usual! I changed my team Chun/Skrull/Ammy, to SF team just because of you!
Keep playing like that brian! :smiley:
you’re one of the best players to us.

31:31 - the invincibility frames were gone already. I did that because I thought he’d push me away and try to Stinger me, like he usually does.

EX SBK has a few invincibility frames, but in a lot of ocasions it’s not enough.

And I feel glad that you’re using my team now. Makes me happy when people play the characters I do because they like of how I play.

=)

With Chun Li the only problem i have is that i can’t always land a Combo after a Ground Throw, With her I can do a combo with 720k with Ryu assist, It’s ok for me… Maybe someday i can do more than that. I can’t also find the Timing to call Akuma Tatsu after the EX SBK to do another EX SBK.

Ryu its more easy to do his combos, but get him in the right place is a pain… With the fear to make the DD + ATK ATK Hyper for mistake when Wavedashing , and his Air Tatsu L doesn’t always win.

Akuma is the most difficult to me, I can’t really find a way to come closer to my opponent with his really short range of hitbox, Until now I’m doing Super Jump + Demon Flip - flaming Kick. or Jump / Super Jump Tatsu L-M , Dash-Teleport with Assist.

So with people getting all excited for the game possibly getting patched (again)… perhaps we Chun players should figure out what changes to her would really help her in this game?

These are the ones I’ve come up with:
-cr.L is a low
-Small damage increase. I don’t think I want to increase it too much because…
-Give her hazanshu. Let it be an overhead too. Now this is the part you have to think a little with… I think she should be able to use it in the air and have it function like Wolverine’s divekick in a way. Meaning it goes straight to the ground and you can’t cancel it, but if it connects it gives a groundbounce. The reason I suggest this is because this will give her a way to confirm from hits from jump height as well as being able to stabilize her combos to increase ease of use. For example… you do an air throw into OTG headstomp… then you would air hazanshu for the groundbounce, land, and then perform your combo.
-Small health increase. Probably to 900k like Viper.
-Decrease recovery on her fireballs. Only slightly though… it should be a tool to slow the pace of the match down so you can think out what you want to do next. Not something to consistently zone with.
-Find some way to make her OTG headstomp consistent on the entire cast. As it is, several characters will whiff for the standard S, j.H, j.S, OTG headstomp. This needs to be able to connect consistently across characters except maybe ones like RR. Maybe increase the horizontal hitbox on it?

I think we can all agree that her Kikokens need to come out faster and that Hazanshu is absolutely necessary. They could literally just do that and she’d instantly bump up to B-tier.

What about my idea for having hazanshu function like a divekick when performed in the air and it giving a ground bounce? Everyone wants hazanshu but we haven’t established HOW we want hazanshu to function.

I think fixing all her hitboxes would be nice I heard that they were really really bad in comparison to the rest of the cast. Her tenshoyaku is meh. I don’t think Kikoken would be a very strong zoning tool regardless of frame buffs etc as it has one core problem : Dissipating on hit. I actually like the way it works but the offset for this skill is rather mediocre. If I were to give balance changes to her Kikoken, it would be allowing Chun to cancel it into another special or dash to allow aggressive plays. I feel that the distance that Kikoken travels should be changed - Light : Full Screen, Medium : 80% : Hard 60%. It’s pretty stupid how Kikoken essentially acts like Dan’s Fireball when using the Hard version T_T…Anyways here I feel they should change the animations to represent the streetfighter ones respectively (HP Fireball stance OMG). Anyways they should OVERALL increase the projectile durability, reduce start frames and recovery and have it become greater with each level (L receives Lowest, H Receives most). and speed Since her fireballs do not travel full screen I feel it’s balanceable around this and will not allow Chun to simply spam fireballs (Which is bad anyways) If they feel like it’s a problem then reduce the chip/damage on hit I’d like to see Chun’s fireball disrupt to allow her to have openings.

Cr.Light needs to LOL hit low. Standing Medium needs to have a better hitbox to hit crouching characters. Her jump canceable gameplay needs to have some sort of buff, it’s really nice seeing it on Chun Li makes her all the more flashy but it doesn’t actually bring that much gameplay.

Hoyouksen needs to act like Storm’s Ice Prison or w/e…distance is selectable through a button press (And needs something done with damage, it scales combos very hard and I find that the 230k damage + combo potential isn’t very worth it and it’s hard due to hit stun decay.) Also her level 3 hyper should work in AIR and deal more damage (Air version should be that one super that looks like Akumas or just a shortened version that’s like tenshoyaku and ends with a hazanshu to the ground).

Her dashes LOL need work, a ONE way dash as Chun please, her land dashes look horrible (Not gameplay was aesthetic) Her SF4 backdashes is so sexy T_T

For hazanshu the kikoken sort of treatment would be nice - varying distances and properties etc so it’s more applicable to various situations then just one for example. Should it have projectile invul while in air?

I don’t think this is a lot as Chun has some major problems, useless fireball, tenshoyaku is meh, hypers too situational and close ranged and she doesn’t have a way to get in easily or get through fireball shiz.

  • I’d rather Hazan Shu crossing up instead of overhead (Both would be good). She already has instant overheads and not only one. Crossing up is very situational though.

  • The stomp kick could work like when you hit the assist OTG: They pop up and she lands.

  • Houyoukusen with distance based on the buttons you press would be an incredible buff! I’d LOVE that!

  • The air to ground combo could be something based off recoverable EX SBK, Hazan Shu groundbouncing and air OK.

  • I don’t think her damage output needs buffing. I’d rather a damage SCALING buff, because most of her confirms come from low damaging moves or multi hits attacks.

  • Kikoken could get some frames buff and Kikoanken should have its input changed to Just holding H during the Kikoken motion.

  • Tenshoukyaku should have a fixed stun and also make make all hits count as one move. Currently, each hit have its own stun, so the characters drop from it when used in long combos. That’s so stupid.

  • Fixing her Lv3 would be much appreciated. They would make into cinematics from 1st hit. That would totally fix it.

  • Shichisei Senkuu Kyaku back as her air Lv3 for GOD’S SAKE!

  • Her hitboxes are good. I can’t complain about them. St.M is meant to be used on combos, not on neutral game. Ok, you can use it as anti-air in a few situations. for rushdown, ALWAYS go for cr.M and st.H.

  • Yeah, Cr.L NEEDS to hit low… Geez…

I’m gonna make a video about buffs and nerfs for her, as soon as possible. I’m just tired of talking about this over and over… lol.

I would assume that if hazanshu can be done in the air then it would be able to cross up as well. Especially if it functions like a divekick like I suggested.

The Houyoukusen distance buff sounds really interesting! Never thought of that.

Kikoanken change sounds good.

And if you make a video… please explain WHY she needs her cr.L to hit low. People seem to think that because she can cancel her cr.M into instant overheads that she doesn’t need it. That’s all well and good that she has it but there’s no point when you can’t get the move out in the first place xD

Don’t worry. I’ll show examples for everything ;D

So here is my very shortened and generalized form.

  • Chun’s Multihit attacks count as one move each or however they could scale it where X hits = 1 hit of scaling etc
  • Kikoken Overhaul
  • HP Kikoken has the stance in SF4 :wink:
  • Hoyoukusen distance changes with button press
  • More dash/mobility options
  • Hazanshu implemented
  • Tenshoyaku buffed
  • Lv3 Insta-animation on hit to prevent drop outs?
  • Aerial Lv3 alternate implemented
  • Kikoanken input changed to be easier and more controllable especially in XFactor

I posted some suggestions for Chun in the Marvel 2013 update thread and EH. I’ll re-post it here later. It seems like all us Chun players are on the same page. A lot of the same, great ideas.

Add 5 additional color pallets to every character’s alternate costume.

To the mods, sorry I sent this five times. I thought I was doing something wrong. Just needed to be approved.

So while Chun-Li definitely wouldn’t mind getting some buffs, I think some of these should be adjusted, yeah?

Having mutli-hit attacks count as 1 hit for scaling is a bit much. Considering she already does more damage solo than several characters who are LEAGUES better than her, I think this would be a little out of hand. What I challenge you to do is to take your favorite Chun BnB, write out all the inputs and then do the math on what the damage of the combo should be. Perform the combo in training mode just to make sure your math is right. Now, take that same combo and redo the math with her multi-hit attacks only counting for one hit of scaling. Let me know the results. I think there is not one person who would find those numbers fair.

By “Kikoken Overhaul,” what do you mean? What are the specifics? I could consider an overhaul as changing the colors and sound effects of the move and you would probably be very disappointed. :smiley: Similarly, what do you mean by “Tenshokyaku buffed”? You don’t have to write a novel, but explaining yourself is a good idea, especially when you are talking to other people who likely feel the same way, but not EXACTLY as you do. “More dash/mobility” options also should be expanded upon. It sounds like you know what you want, but WE don’t know what you want, so you should go into at least a LITTLE detail.

Regarding Chun-Li’s level 3, I know why you guys want it to go into the animation instantly, but I think it’s cool the she has one of the two (I think? Can’t remember) level 3s that hits assists. I’m not a Chun veteran, so while I haven’t been playing long enough for the odds of dropping characters out of my level 3 to stack against me, I also don’t feel like this happens enough to warrant it going instantly into the animation when she has this unique trait (especially when Chun birthdays give you a million meter to do this with).

I would love Chun’s classic aerial level 3 back. I think everyone would.

About Kikoanken, I’m not quite sure why people want the inputs to be easier. She already has the Dante treatment by only having to press the button one additional time. If you want the window for the press to be larger, then sure by all means express that, but I don’t know why people want it to be easier when it’s already just a single button press.

I’ll never understand why people want her SF Kikoken poses, either. Maybe it’s just me.

What would YOU like to see? List them. Trying to understand a million different personalities (and their choices) is going to give you a migraine.