The final smash thread. Don't fight fair, fight to win

Jesus, Ike’s FS can be comboed into. If you do it out of Aether it’s pretty much inescapable.

Say when they made Chess, they originally had a rule where fifteen moves in one player, picked at random, will get an extra bishop. You had the option of playing without this rule. Sounds crazy, right?

Serious players, not even in tournaments, played without items all throughout SSB and Melee. What it boils down to is these indisputable facts:

  1. Items are a random factor.
  2. Items are an advantage.

Randomly distributed advantage hurts games of skill. They leave more wiggle room for an upset. Serious players frown on this.

You’re about to have a bad time of it. Just warning you before it happens.

But upsets are more exciting :tup:

haha its funny every time

Hm, not only can Ike use Great Aether out of an Aether, but he can also use it out of a Shield Canceled AAA combo. :wow:

FS are still a random advantage…yes they are exciting, and even if it’s a small random advantage, then if there is an option to take it off (unlike original arcade modes for trad. fighting games) then it probably should be taken off. but I am still on the fence…because it is fun…but for serious tourneys, Iunno…

and you can’t compare it to meter in capcom/etc. type games…god…

though FS through meter would’ve been SO awesome, and would’ve gotten rid of these debates. because it would be even/fair/controlled/whatever. maybe for the next one…

If you want to keep it as fair/even/not-random as possible, then it should be run like melee. that’s all it is to the matter, matter of fairness at least

now having items, FS, random stages, and 4-for-alls for tournament norms will be interesting. it will change the game, it WILL NOT be fair, but people will maybe pick characters who are best at getting items, best smashes, best chance on all stages etc. it might be fun for some but don’t go calling the tourney fair. some (maybe a lot or most, but not all) will not find it fun from even a little bit of randomness. ramble ramble ramble…

If I may ask, who were you using and where you on the stage (relative to the edge) when you got hit with it?

Regardless, this is good news and means that only “true” instant kill is sigh Marth’s.

Thank you for the report.

…Your name seems familiar. Are you the same guy as the Potemkin player?

Since Ike is your main, I want to ask if you’ve found a consistent way of comboing into Aether or getting all Aether’s hits.

If so, then I would start “worrying”.

I agree with this.

As for this, though, I think outside of stupidity that is that Landmasters’s and most of SWF’s love of flat stages is what causes most of the problem alongside the space animals “always” being “really good”.

The only real problem, since Marth’s is actually really easy to dodge, is the fact that after you get an FS, there isn’t a time limit in which you can use it. You could theoritcally hold onto it forever if you could avoid getting it knocked out of you, at least AFAIK.

Anyway, I just wanted an excuse to show that Luigi’s Negative Zone is underrated.

I don’t know this game for shit except for what people tell me and what I have see on youtube. However, I have seen a LOT of Sonic matches and that guy can’t get a KO for much unless he works his ass off in pokes or gets Smash Ball. I see no reason why FS can’t be in tourney play - just like a super but adds the struggle bit prior.

Competitions are never fair, get this out of your system.

yes, I was thinking I was using the wrong word in using “fair”…I’m sure that’s not the one thing out of my whole post you considered…fail

well it would be nice if it was fair though.

I don’t think it’s so much about “fair” because both players have the same chance of having an advantage. It’s about deviation–when you see the word “X wins” at the end of the game, how accurate is that a representation of who was the better player? The random factor makes “X wins” a less accurate measure of who played better.

You want the winner of a tournament to be the one who played better than anyone else, right?

I have no problem with FSes, they just can get bloody annoying sometimes. Especially if they’re the only item on, they break up the flow of combat. They are also the ultimate john material, as the Brawl Evo Ruleset helped prove.

The more I play the game, the more tame FS seem to get.

If that’s supposed to be an answer to my question, then I think that it certainly explains why there’s a discussion, but my question is “Why people want it in tournament play?”.

The reason I ask is because it seems a lot of people want it because “It’s flashy, and exciting”, but then some other players say “They suck and can easily be dodged” to justify putting them in the game.

If they do suck and can easily be dodged or whatever, then shouldn’t that be another reason as to why they should not be in tournament play? If they’re so easily dodged, then wouldn’t having them in matches be more of a bother for both players than anything else?

Well, don’t get TOO excited. I was playing Snake on Rumble Falls, standing in the middle of the stage, with 0%, next to a wall.

I imagine that, given the same situation, Marth’s FS wouldn’t kill you either, since the two FSes seem to work the same way. Actually, I think in this particular situation, Marth would probably have died by getting crushed after firing off his FS.

This just in; normal projectiles are now banned from 3s tournies.

If you’re saying that Final Smashes are equivalent to 3S Fireballs (not even close, but I want to know where you’re going with this), then nobody will bother getting the Smash Ball at all, and the only thing it would do in matches is randomly stretch the screen.

I just said this in the tournament thread, but I’ll say it here too:

STOP TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE TO PLAY THE GAME THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO.

Nobody on either side is going to budge. Let it go.