The Landmasters aren’t a gauranteed KO, but on smaller stages they come pretty close. Some stages can at least give you some breathing room, but on FD it’s hard to go anywhere without getting blasted or run over. Standing on the tank is what’s worked best for me so far.
EDIT: I meant while dodging barrel rolls and such.
Just for the record, Zelda’s is an OHKO as well. But it is rather easy to avoid.
G&W FS is a guaranteed KO on flat stages only. On stages like Spear Pillar it’s pretty much useless.
Do the smash balls have a certain amount of HP? Or is it just after a certain number of hits they break?
I believe it’s a certain amount of HP.
I’ve seen it take the gauntlet of Pit’s aerial f+a and Samus’ aerial up+a and stay alive.
Meanwhile, I believe i’ve broken it using Bowser’s aerial up+a once. I don’t know if the amount of HP is random, but…it does seem to have HP, rather than a hit counter.
But this is a desirable thing. Like any good super, good final smashes force the opponent to start playing differently. They change the pace of the match and the opponent’s options and they either make up for a character’s weaknesses or highlight a character’s strengths. And unlike a super, you can lose a final smash by getting hit or by just sitting on it for too long, so it’s effect on strategy isn’t interminable. I think that kind of strategically varied gameplay, with regular strategic play, strategic play in breaking the smash ball or preventing your opponent from breaking it, and strategic play in using and dodging final smashes, is way too valuable to give up.
And if final smashes aren’t in tourney play, it’ll be because the community comes to a decision, not because some dudeface says so.
landmasters can be avoided byhnging off the ledge
pikachus is avoided by standing in the center(tested) he does uncontrollable cirlces near the end hes able to move to the center but does low dmg and u can now run away on the outter area,
sonics u have to stay near a edge and roll or double jump he will will by u and cannot come back in a straight line most of the time so u just gotta mess with him
marth cannot do a thing if ur above his head.
kirbys is a ohko depending on % the range is wierd ive been near it holding guard and didnt get sucked in, ive been fairly far and got sucked in tryin to jump away.
alot ive seen ppl hang off the ledge and force them to come forward and then advance form the edge and tfry to hit it out of them, ive seen dk’s get it and just hold it n just continue clapping.
ive also been testing 3 stock matches with just smash balls on and about 4-5 came out in 5:40sec matches. i then added in a few garbage items and smash ball came out about 2 times sometimes 0 times in a 5min match. also have yet to see them give a pity smash when the match was 3 stock and i killed 2 stocks for p2 then 2 stocks for p1.
as for FS glitches just ban the gllitch then like every other game
With items on low, all items on, 2 stock 3 minute matches, I saw about 3 smashballs in an hour of play. Now, granted some items will most likely be turned off (Regular Hammer, Bom-Ombs, exploding containers), so it might go up a bit, but with a format like that, the smash balls only add to the hype when they spawn, instead of being completely dominant in the matches.
Under normal fighting game terms, yes, it’s a desirable part of the gameplay. However, there are two things about Brawl’s Final Smashes that separate them from Capcom-style super moves.
In a Capcom fighter, supers are a part of the game that cannot be “turned off” (under normal circumstances, see 3S), and they are attained either by whiffing pokes (zoning) or by landing good hits on your opponent. Therefore, it can be said that they are a reward for good play. In Brawl, however, although a mind game would be required to win the smash ball under “desirable” circumstances (when you are both on the stage when the smash ball appears), you cannot guarantee that you will be able to pursue your opponent (you might have been launched when the Ball appeared) or that you even have a shot at the Ball in the first place (it might break more quickly than you expected).
In short, you don’t always have a shot at the smash ball, no matter how good of a player you are.
Basically, what this means is that Final Smashes do not cause an increase in strategic gameplay because there are no mind games associated with using them. After picking up a smash ball, there is no thinking required to use it effectively. I’m not saying that Final Smashes don’t require skill to use, I’m saying that by design they are too simple to implement. All Capcom supers are stored until you can hit confirm into them or you make a good guess about when to use them. Brawl supers have definitive timeframes of use, and that’s assuming that they don’t cover the screen or cause a transformation.
Because Final Smashes don’t add mind games (after the ball is broken), they are simply “an advantage” your character has and does not improve strategic play.
Sure, but you do in the vast, vast majority of cases. I’ve played a crapload of Brawl in the past week and I can’t recall offhand seeing a smash ball appear when either my opponent or I was offscreen. I don’t know the specifics on how items spawn, presumably they can spawn when someone is offscreen, but if that happens it happens so rarely as to not really be an issue.
I don’t agree with this at all. For all final smashes, once you get a smash ball, you have to consider when to use it. Do you use it immediately? What if your opponent already has a high percentage, should you try to hang onto it and use it after you take down your opponent’s stock? And lots of final smashes only work in certain situations, like when the opponent is near or in front of you. Strategy and mind games are extremely strong here; you want to force your opponent into a certain situation, and there are lots of tricks to play in getting them there. Other final smashes just turn your character into a better character, meaning that while you gain a huge advantage, you still have to use mind games in making them useful; you essentially activate a genei jin with a huge meter (since the frequency of getting a final smash is much lower than that of getting genei jin), and I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Olimar’s pisses me off. Only because of the GUARANTEED damage. Everything else about him is manageable, but FREE damage? No.
Edit: UltraDavid is right. There have been MANY matches where I was down by two and got a Final Smash, only to save it, net a KO, then use it when my opponent lost his invincible respawn. Smart Final Smashing wins matches. Don’t try to tell me otherwise.
Stop it. I’m tired of bitching about Smash Balls. They are NO threat to me.
Niggas are scrubs.
And stop falling back on everything beingfucking “random”. That’s code word for "I’ma scrub, whose brain shuts the fuck off, when I see an item, or Smahs Ball.
UASHUAGDHAUHU WHAT IZ I GON’ DO!? IT’s SOMETHING THERRE I DIDNT KNOW WOULD BE THEREEASAS
WHAT IZ I GON DO!?
Go and GET it, motherfucker.
Think I ran into something odd today. I landed TLs FS on snake, the triforce appeared and suddenly vanished before the attack began…
No thinking required? You’ve got to be kidding.
Alot of characters move alot faster than the crosshair on Snakes FS, so mind games are prime when it comes to landing it. Some of then can simply be activated yes, but alot of them don’t really do anything but cause damage (no KO). ICs FS for example almost guarantees damage, but it doesn’t get you a KO for free.
For the record, I had a math today in which me and my opponent fought over the smash ball for what felt like at least one minute. it was epic.
Olimar’s isn’t free damage it turns out. appearantly, if you can get in the visable part of the screen, you won’t take any.
Best. Post. Ever.
@ Tiger: That Smash Ball Tug o’ War was pretty epic. I wish I could’ve saved it but that match was well over 3 minutes.
OH! Snake Eater is in Brawl. Just the instrumental. Unlocked that shit after you guys left.
Kirby’s FS can be side-stepped. I did it because I am made of win.
I think the smash balls should be in at EVO if only cause they make the game more interesting. I been buying the Evo Dvd’s for a few years now and the Melee stuff is usually pretty boring.
How about a mix? It’s usually best 2-3 matches so match 1 and 3 regular while match 2 has a smash ball?
Strictly from a causal player tho I am very low tier when it comes to brawl, but as a spectator I would love to watch the smash balls used in high level play.
I have a question, mostly out of curiosity; why do you even want the Final Smashes in tournament play anyway?
Theres an entire thread already discussing items/FS/Stages, no need to clog up another thread with that same stuff. Theres about 30 some odd pages of people debating that very topic.
The short answer is, it’s in the game
Just to let you know, I was hit by Zelda’s FS earlier tonight, and it didn’t kill me.
Whee, Bowser! Here’s some Giga Bowser stuff: Not like people thought it was one of the broken ones…
Also, Bowser’s up B seems to pretty much break a Smash Ball completely with only 4 hits or so. I’ve only had them not break when I hit with just the tail end…
Mike Z