The Fatal Fury Real Bout 2 Thread

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
321

First off, welcome to the thread, Tobemorecrazy! I’ve checked out a bunch of your vids on YT. I’d love to play ya sometime. :tup:

And now for the topic that’s been on-going for a couple days. Sorry Musolini, but I have to disagree with you on a number of points. :sweat:

While Chonrei does have an arguably better air :snkc: (his has more range, but Chonshu’s is faster and is easier to crossup with) and a much better far :snkc:, the rest of his normals pale in comparison to Chonshu’s. Aside from his sweep, all of Chonshu’s normals hit twice and he has far more flexibility in the combos he can do. Additionally, his overhead is faster and has more range than Chonrei’s, though Chonrei has the option of doing his inside of a chain.

Chonrei’s fireball is much better than Chonshu’s in that has faster startup and recovery.
They’re about 50-50 on the anti-airs: Chonrei’s hits once and has more range, Chonshu’s does more damage and is an anti-crossup.
As for their shoulder charges, Chonrei’s has more range and will do full damage on an airborne opponent, but Chonshu’s does more damage and sets up his wakeup games.

Also, ironically Chonshu does more damage with a combo from a jab starter than he does from his :snkc: starter. Overall, Chonshu does more damage than Chonrei thanks to his much greater combo flexibility and his P-Power.

There are situations where Chonrei can outdamage his brother, but they’re hugely unreliable, as they require the opponent to either blunder into Chonrei’s stasis ball S-Power and then comboing from there -or- doing a combo on a 1-Line stage (which can only happen if you set the game to Console mode, and change a couple options around, which most players aren’t going to go for, much less in a tournament setting), and even then it’s only substantial if he manages to land his multi-fireball S-Power, which is the only S-Power in the game that you -must- have meter to perform (whether you’re in the red or not).

[media=youtube]rNarzMZbvEM"][COLOR=“DarkOrange”]Some Chonrei / Chonshu combos (not done by me).[/COLOR[/media]

However, it should be noted that their fighting styles are completely different: Chonrei has much more of an emphasis on defense and zoning while Chonshu is more about rushing and mindgames. 2 things really set apart their damage dealing abilities: Chonshu not only has a variety of ways of setting up his launcher, but has a comboable P-Power.

In closing, Chonrei has less damage and a better defense, but Chonshu has him beat on damage and offense. Savor it, though, because this is the first and thus far only time Chonshu has been better than Chonrei.

At any rate, I think this whole conversation is detracting from helping people on the thread. So can we bury the hatchet, agree to disagree, and move on? :lovin:

322

Just wanted to say that my friend and I are going to record casuals today.

I’ll be playing Rick, Xiangfei and Chonshu. My main’s Xiangfei though.

My friend will be playing Franco, Joe, Hon-Fu and Kim. Hon-Fu is his main.

323

Cool! :tup: Looking forward to seeing those, CoosCoos! I have you added to AIM, by the way. Feel free to hit me up for a match sometime. :bgrin:

I might be a bit slow in updating for a little while as I’ve been commissioned to do some writing work. In the meantime, hopefully you guys can keep the ball rolling. :nunchuck:

324

This game is too hype.

Casuals are done just gotta get them on the comp and uploaded.

I had a monster Xiangfei comeback in one of these. Bitch should be high mid seriously.

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no problem at all bigz. everybody has the right to his own beliefs. i really do believe chonrei is higher than chonsu. you gave me your reasons, so ill give you mine.

first of the pokes. chonsus pokes hit twice. did you check how much damage they do? chonsus jab hitting 4 times (2 jabs) does around the same damage as chonreis jab hitting ones (chonsus 4 hits do a lil bit more damage than chonreis 1 jab, but chonrei can jab twice too.). now to the biggest upset of the pokes. if you do jab twice, chonsu moves to far away to even finish the combo with a special (unless its done in the corner), meaning the ff+A will miss, and if you do the launcher combo, the dp will miss. meaning all you have left is a combo with just chonsus normals which do very little damage. if you are not in a corner you’ll need to do a special move ASAP, cause otherwise the fb+B or dp+C after launcher will miss. leaving you with a lot of damage missed out on. and even then, you need to be very close for the combos to actually hit. so you’ll need a pretty deep jump in, and need to walk forward a lil bit to make sure all of your combo hits. even if your just a lil bit too far you wont be hitting your dp, though the fb with C will hit them most of the time (resetting them on their feet, but does lousy damage).

both their normal launcher combos finished with dp+C do around the same amount of damage. though, hitting chonsus is a lot harder starting of a poke as you need to be very close or in the corner for the dp to hit. while chonrei can basically do the same amount of damage from his BCC chain anywhere from up close to distand, finishing with either his dp after launcher or fff+A after the other variant of this combo. and you know what, they almost ALWAYS do hit. up close, chonsus pokes do out speed chonreis. even chonsus C chain does the same damage as chonreis standard chains, while chonreis are far easier to hit. only way chonsu can out damage chonrei is in ppower. that is, unless chonrei is playing on 1 line, then chonrei can basically eat most of you life in a single combo, especially if you manage to hit with the spower first (yeah right, like this would happen in real life matches).

also, both their dp’s are not that good. both have no invincibility, and both are easily traded with if you know how and when to hit the attack button ©. also, chonreis dp+A is as good as a dp against cross overs as are chonsus dp’s. the C version is mostly used for combos and jumps coming in from further away. or for those guaranteed hits when someone jumps on you with out crossing over.

p.s. most of chonsus teleports are useless against pros. his best teleport is the rdp+B in the air. his normal one of the ground with A can be used to fool the opponent, or the one with C to punish the opponent if he does a move with lots of lag. even though the C teleport isn’t as fast as it should have been for punishing opponents. mostly using the C or B teleport of the ground will result in chonsu being punished, if not used correctly. and most good opponents will anticipate this if you do teleport. another quick notion, on taller opponents even if you hit them after the hcb+B teleport, you’ll still get hit. no matter if you hit them or if your attack gets blocked. choreis qcf+B > any of chonsus teleports.

there are more differences between them, but like you said we should check out the rest of the cast instead of keep on making comparisons between the 2 brothers. for me, chonrei is the superior one. for you, chonsu.

cooscoos: and xiangfei is mid high. shes already listed as such.

326

Thanks Musolini, it’s always great to have an experienced player offering constructive criticism!

In case you didn’t know, Chonshu has a bug with one of his teleports that allows him to fly all the way to the other side of the screen. Mr.Big made a video of this [media=youtube]SH57lO0itMI[/media]. Quite useful runaway…

Also, as someone who has been looking into frame data for this game, I can tell you that just about ALL of Chonshu’s normals are faster than everyone else’s equivalents. Even his Close C is as fast as some people’s jabs! And he gets a nice amount of frame advantage from the Close C string…

IIRC, he is the only character who can cross up with a hop attack, which leads to very strong mixup.

And his supers are awesome. That P-Power just shuts down the opponent’s game…

From what I can tell, Chonshu has no bad matchups at all, which is truly what counts in the end. I think he and Rick are neck-and-neck for best in the game.

Now then, to go in a bit different direction, Sokaku is my main character and I think he is solid mid. Basically, every time the opponent blocks a normal, you can force him into a mixup, from anywhere on the screen. If they’re close, you mash A and go for the high/low; if they’re a bit further away where they can escape, you use the d/b+C and D finishers. This is part of why I think A+B is a better move than far C - you can cancel A+B, it has upper-body invincibility, and it has less recovery when whiffed IIRC.

As arstal mentioned, his corner game can be nuts. He gets significant frame advantage from every one of his finishers, allowing him to constantly force guessing games of some sort. And his infinite is almost as easy as Bob’s - after the far B-C, you wait a little bit before mashing A.

In the corner, of course, mashing A is vulnerable to breakshots. But outside the corner, a lot of them don’t seem to work.

And one last question: What makes Kim better than Geese? He’s easy-mode, he does a lot of damage, and he’s very safe…but he seems to be lacking in actual mixup. I just don’t see his stuff working as well on high-level players…

Thanks again,
Josh.

327

In retrospect, I could possibly drop Kim to High, but aside from being strong and easy to use, he has a number of things other chars don’t have:

  1. An overhead that he can interrupt from normals (you could say that Franco, Sokaku, Yamazaki, Tung, and Mary have the same ability with their supers / specials. However, aside from Mary’s Vertical Arrow and possibly Yamazaki’s :dp:+:snkb:, they’re slower than Kim’s). Also, Kim’s overhead can go over low attacks and projectiles, and variable timing when it’s buffered into or not.

  2. The only low-hitting :snka: in the game (giving him crouching :snka:, :snkb:, :snkc:, and :d::d:+:snkb: as low attack options).

  3. His far :snkc: does as much damage as many character’s bread and butters (two far :snkc:'s = a P-Power’s worth of damage :looney:).

  4. He can easily combo after knocking someone out of the backplane with a :snkd:, while most other chars can only do a special / super.

  5. Aside from Alfred, he’s the only char in the game with a comboable air S-Power (and before anyone gets any ideas, Duck King’s S-Power from his ground :dp:+:snkb: doesn’t count, :razzy:), which makes his air :snkc: an even more dangerous jump in at <50% life.

There are other things as well: great anti-airs, an awesome (and safe) P-Power, specials that are quite safe on block…Kim really doesn’t have a discernable weakness. His mixup game isn’t like what some other character’s is, but he’s equally solid on both offense and defense, with potential for big damage in both situations.

328

Thanks as always!

It’s just that what I’m thinking here is, Chonshu/Rick/Geese can all seriously fuck with your head. Kim, on the other hand, seems to be the same thing over and over. Against a high-level player who doesn’t make many mistakes, I don’t see how he is as strong as those three.

-Josh

329

Sorry, but this is incorrect. Here is a list of crossover-capable hop attacks for each character which I have found. Tests were performed on Geese, who is a medium size character (and who has a very nice stage soundtrack for me to listen to while testing :p).

Xiangfei: :snka:,:snkb:, or :snkc:. The C is harder to use, the others are easy, but won’t provide enough stun for a combo.

Rick: :snkb:, no combo.

Terry: None

Yayazaki: None

Billy: :snkb:, no combo.

Bob: :snkb:, very easy to time, no combo.

Andy: None

Joe: :snkb:, easy to time, no combo.

Sokaku: Well, Sokaku’s hop does not go over medium and large characters, but testing on Chonrei shows his :snkb: to be able to cross over. No combo though.

Geese: :snka:, no combo.

Cheng: :snkc:, This one is very easy to time, and can be comboed from. A welcome ability in Cheng’s arsenal, who generally has a hard time inflicting damage while on the offensive.

Mai: :snkb:, easy to time, no combo.

Kim: :snkb:, very easy to time, no combo.

Hon Fu: :snka:, easy to time, no combo

Krauser: :snkc:, hard to land, I did not manage to connect this one reliably, and I also failed to combo from it.

Tung: :snka: when using it from a dashing hop, and :snkc: from any hop. This one is very easy to connect, And I was able to connect with his standing A afterwards.

Duck: None

Mary: None

Chonshu: :snkb: and :snkc: Easy to land, combable.

Laurence: :snka:, :snkb:, :snkc:. They are all rather easy to land, but comboing from the :snkc: is very hard.

Chonrei: :snkc:. Easy to land and combo from.

Franco: None (and thank god for that)

So, these are the results for crossover hops against medium-sized characters, and for easier reference, here is the list of the most realistic and dangerous ones. Some of these become even more dangerous for big characters like Krauser or Franco.

Xiangfei: :snkc:
Chonshu :snkc:
Chonrei :snkc:
Cheng :snkc:
Tung :snkc:

330

yeah i knew that one long ago. the air teleport, wast it done by doing the motion in the air again after doing the first one? ill try it out again. its already been 10 years since i was playing this game competitively, im still relearning old stuff i used to know and use. though playing it on a kb isn’t as nice as my neo pads or sticks, but at least there are no loads (got a cdz).

edit: just looked at the vid and description. instead of HCF or HCB you just do f~B or b ~ f.

p.s. this only worked in 1 direction IIRC, right? ill fire up the emu and check it out anywayz. never mind. goes both ways. checked it out again.

331

By the way, Musolini, do you play online? I would very much like to have a fight some day.

332

Likewise for me, and by the way, where have you been God? :amazed: Hadn’t played you (or anyone else) on RB2 for a while now. Kinda has me bummed. :sad:

333

Yo musolini download the rom and the emulators and show us what you got:nunchuck:

334

:sad:

335

For those of you who have been plagued by accidental use of charge moves when attempting to perform a grab after blocking, or any similar backwards -> forwards motion, I have recently discovered that by pressing multiple buttons, one can avoid doing these moves by accident.

:snkb:+:snkc: can be used for moves that use the :snkb:-button without getting a charge move using that button as well. Examples include Mary’s overhead kick :r:+:snkb: which has a tendency of becoming a Crab Clutch (charge :l: -> :r:+:snkb:) when done after a block.

:snkc:+:snkd: can be used to get regular grabs or regular :snkc: button moves. The best example would be that with this you can perform grabs and dash :snkc: with Joe, Andy, Cheng, and Laurence without getting their Slash Kick, Zan-ei-ken, Avalanche Crunch, and Bloody Sabre accidentally.

:snka:+:snkc: can be used to get regular :snka: button attacks instead of moves like Billy’s Cane Spin and Laurence’s Bloody Mixer when mashing. (Ghostpilot pointed this one out.)

Basically, the rule is that special moves and supers require exact button combinations to work, while normal moves and command moves will be performed even if you use multiple buttons. Some combinations give priority to one button. :snka:+:snkc: always gives :snka:-button attacks for instance.

So, what defines a command move compared to a special move then? A command move only has one direction push in its motion, while special moves always have more.

Also, several characters get different dashing attacks if multiple buttons are pressed. Krauser and Yamazaki get a sliding version of their standing :snkb: if they press :snkb:+:snkc: during their dash. These versions cannot be used with their normal combo strings, but they can be cancelled on hit like normally. I haven’t tested this much yet, but I believe I already have found a use for this. Experiment at your own leisure.

Hope this will be useful!

336

damn, i would LOVE to play you guys. the only GOOD competition ive got around here are my 2 lil brothers. besides them there are only a few snk heads around here and most of them don’t have the skillz to compete. ive got kawaks and mame on kalliera if im not mistaken. also, im from the dutch, so all those japanese payers id love to fight against is pretty much useless with a ping of 200 to 300. with my neighbors (germans, and neighbors further away like france, uk, spain and italy are still playable, though there is a significant lag.) lets make a date and see if there isn’t too much lag and have some fun with a few bouts.

god2.0 norway is realistic. the lag is should be around 40 something to 60 something.

deadlyraveneo, i wish i could play you. don’t think that will be possible though. US is a lil too far away. like 200 ping away at the very least. you would have to press an attack button before jumping if you’d want to hit it deep, sort to speak of that is.

my name online is dejavoodoo.
also, its 18.52 (brussels) here.

337

If you use the P2P Kaillera client, the lag should not be an issue. The only people I play against at the moment are all from different places in the US, and the game runs fine at 200 ping. No input delay, and the lag is minimal/irrelevant.

338

I’m down to play more games online now, got a new PC so things should run smoother now. Just catch me on AIM like most of you guys have already, keep up the good work here everyone.

339

Very useful indeed! Thanks for that info.

340

Actually there is still noticeable input delay depending on distance. When I play God 2.0, it’s 6 frames, but at least you can still get decent casual play with that. P2P is miles ahead of standard server Kaillera.

And many thanks to God 2.0 for all the info, impressive work!