The ethics in gaming community or why American players act two-faced cowards?

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
1

I have long followed the SSF4 competitive fighting tournaments, as a fan, not a competitor. So I can be called a scrub or whatever, but prolly not a stream monster, because I never use stream chats. And I just registered and signed the page saying I am not going to attack anybody, so I will try my best to keep this civil.

I like International vs the US fights a lot, but I have been shocked by the ethical approach of American players in especially recent tournaments. This is a general criticism, and there will be some genuine questions, which some players might want to answer to as well.

To be blunt, the question is, as title says, why American players act two-faced cowards?

I wanted to create such thread after Season’s Beatings, but decided not to. Then I read what Marn had to say his blog, and wanted to do it again, but OK, kept it. Now, I just watched this:
[media=youtube]iOV67ynV7CI[/media]
Filipino Champ talking to Tokido

And could not help but register here. I am perfectly fine that there can be grudge, that a person does not have to like everybody. You can even think somebody is a complete ass or scrub. What I fail to understand is why being fake? Why are some of the “Pro’s” so fake, so coward? If you think Daigo, Tokido is a bitch, scrub, or ****** or whatever, why don’t you approach them that way? Why do you fake act as polite, smiling, loving, respecting, shaking hands, even hugging them? Why do you, Sabin, do this? Why do you, Filipino Champ, do this? Why do you, Marn, do this?

All the rivalry makes it great to watch, but your antics makes it difficult to support you, even though it is pretty clear than Japanese players are better, on a different level. Still, the matches can be fun, and people might enjoy supporting the underdog. But all this sympathy evaporated immediately, when I head what Sabin had to say during Season’s Beatings. How coward and two-faced he was. Marn was always a bit like that, so not much surprise, and I have a hard time rooting for him anyway. Now, Filipino Champ, who I admired a lot, because he is not like Sabin, trying to counterpick his way through the tournament.

Can anybody explain this? I am not trolling, really, it’s freaking disgusting and turns me away. Marn says Japanese are two-faced as well? Where’s the evidence? Is there a stream, a video, where they say “I am going to destroy this ****** later” after having a nice smiling chat?

2

It’s not even a gaming community thing. People talk shit behind other people’s back all the time. I personally think it’s low, so I try not to do it, but it doesn’t really generalize to just the American gaming community.

3

Because this is America.

4

So what you’re saying is that you dont like these people’s competitive attitude? Would it be better after a nice smiling chat for whoever to say “I am going to get destroyed by this ****** later”? I dont get it?

5

No, I like a competitive attitude, but this has nothing to do with competitive attitude. If I think somebody is an ass, I just say it and act accordingly. Not smile, hug, and shake hands, and talk from their back, knowing they are not hearing or they cannot understand.

Or alternatively, if I like and respect the person, and I hug and shake hands with him, then I am not going to talk shit from their back. It’s very simple. It’s called being two-faced if you do these fake things.

PS In the case of Marn, he clearly though Starnab is an ass, and he showed in every freaking way. Which is very disrespectful, but still not two-faced. That’s more acceptable than talking from back.

6

I would have to agree with this, as a player I have lost respect for Marn. He is a great SF player but what he did was just childish, and same goes for filipino champ. But I also think in a way trash talk is needed in games, It creates hype and excitement. But to a degree, until it gets annoying and disrespectful. On the flip side of things someone like Mike Ross(my fave player) is extremely modest and his attitude towards other players is great and it makes him that much more of a great SF player then just his skill for the game.

7

True, however, then these guys don’t understand why people have trouble supporting them. They think you are an America-hater, as if they properly represent America and Americans, or they think you are a dick-rider of some sort.

I would gladly support Art. Sanchez or Filipino Champ, because I like Dhalsim. And in fact, I used to support them. But recent events turned me away from them. One is blatantly not admitting a universal fact that Dhalsim has an advantage over Ryu in that match up, OK, a bit egoistical, but I can accept. He doesn’t want to admit it, because that would lower his contribution. But acting two-faced? What’s the excuse?

8

I think people get high off the fact theyre so good in a video game, their “dickness” comes out in private, while in front of the camera theyre usually polite.

9

Well, I have friends that I play fighting games with and I talk shit all the time when they arent around. Big fuckin’ deal. Its all in good fun and it pumps shit up. Now when I say I talk shit I dont say shit like “so-and-so is a freakin’ *** scrub that I hate” because thats not cool. But I will say shit like “ah fuck him, I’ll destroy his sorry ass” and no one gives a fuck. And even if the dude I was talking about happend to hear that comment in a vid, or elsewhere, I doubt he would even care.

I think you’re just soft.

10

May be it’s only me. I have a colleague who has something to say about every worker on our floor, and most of them (all?) is not the nicest things. The interesting part is, all the people on our floor think he is the nicest person on our floor, because he seems like he is about to kiss their ass when he talks to them.

I was and am never able to understand that sort of people. I told him that, and he admits he is. He thinks it’s OK to be two-faced.

11

yea, but these guys are NOT friends. If you go to a tournament, and talk shit about your opponents behind their backs and say “I’ll destroy each and everyone of these chumps, theyre nothing to me, etc.”, but to their face youre all smiles and giggles, and high fiving them, then youre a two faced bitch, no arguement! then if they happen to whoop your ass, you make all the excuses in the world.

12

well, in the real world, that’s how you climb the corporate ladder. sad, but true. I personally cant do that.

13

But I dont get whats wrong with saying something about how you’re going to detroy the person you are going to play in a tourny. Isnt that the kind of attitude you should have in that situation? I mean these guys arent hoping to win, they are planing on winning.

I mean for real, if im at a tourny and some people come up and ask who im playing and how I think I’ll do I’ll tell them something like “im playing whoever and im gonna destroy his ass.” Why would you go into a tourny with any other mindset?

Now if you cant shake hands and pat eachothers backs after the match and you talk shit and make excuses to why you lost then you are a poor sport. That is all.

14

Yeah, but why not say to his face? There’s a bit of sneakiness, being two-faced cunt when you are smiling and just wait until he leaves?

Why he cannot say “Look, ******, I am going to destroy you?”. May be he cannot say that because it is rude and disrespectful? Well, if that’s the case, then why he has to say that after Tokido leaves? I mean if it is bad to say it next to him, it should be equally bad, actually worse, to say it from his back?

I would hate if I knew a guy who smiles and talks to me nicely every time I see him, and then talks shit from my back. I don’t do this, and I hate people who do it. It’s nothing about the skill. It’s about personality. These people are ass-wipes, they are OK to kiss asses.

15

I think it depends on how serious you are. I had a friend who used to play a PC FPS game religiously! In his head he believed he was better then anyone and everyone, it was more then a game to him. So he spoke about all the other top players in the game, spoke so much shit about them. Whenever we were in a chat room, discussing the game, he would be so polite to them, and ask questions. but when they left, he spoke trash like there’s no tomorrow!! So one day I got tired of his shit. I invited him into a chat, just me and him, and we spoke about the other great players who play the game, their style of play, their techniques, etc., so he went on and on, saying hes the shit, and everyone is a step below him, he can beat all of them, blah blah. I copied the entire chat to all rest of the players who played the game at the time. and his nice guy persona was gone, and everyone was cussing him left and right, it was halarious! funny thing is, that still didnt bother him, he yelled at me, but we got over it and shared a coke and a smile.

16

I’m sure most people on SRK won’t appreciate your viewpoint, but I do, and I share your sentiments.

The thing is, this isn’t just about the fighting game community. This is about americans as a whole, but also about the rest of the civilized world. The fact of the matter is that things like kindness, politeness, respect and sportsmanship have been on the decline since the 1960’s. Each successive generation is worse. Basically what you are seeing is what happened to the roman empire before it was overcome by barbarians: a gradual deterioration of the social fabric that is the sure mark of decadence.

So basically what I am trying to say is, Marn is an ass because Western Civilization itself is in the final stages of decline.

17

This. it happens all the time in everything. get over it. people are naturally assholes.

other countries appear to be respectful when they come to america because they came to america. on their home turf they are likely to be just as confident and snide in their own way.

18

For one, you don’t want to click that killing intent in your opponent by boasting in their face. I’ve seen a few matches go bad because one player was too confident and underestimated his opponent or said something to his opponent and that set something off in his opponent that made his opponent angry and made them try harder and focused.

I think you’re reading too far into and trying to find something that isn’t there. No one goes to a tourney and plans to lose (or at least they shouldn’t go in to tourney thinking like this). They should be confident and if they have to psych themselves up by saying “I’m the best, easy win” or “I’m going to destroy everyone”, so be it. Do you want the person you’re playing to hear you say this and get hyped from it?

Even Tokido joined in the shit talking at the end of SCR and in that interview that was posted saying Akuma is overpowered because he makes him overpowered. It’s all in good fun, just feeding the hype.

In the end, the community is friendly towards each other. They all play the same game they have a passion for. They talk to each other, play together, grow and improve together. Stop looking for something that isn’t there and instigating.

And Art is always talking about everyone all the time when he gets a mic. I don’t think anyone takes what he says seriously anymore.

19

And I still hope that one of the “pro’s” like Sabin, Marn, Filipino Champ themselves, or others can explain this. Those guys keep complaining about scrubs, NAH’s, stream monsters who don’t understand anything, so I suppose there’s a difficulty in communication between the two sections.

Here, I express my, and I suspect many other fans’, opinion about some of their antics, which turn me, and I suspect many other fans, away from them. To clarify their standing, and to explain, I think they should in this or that way explain themselves.

I watch other gaming tournaments as well, namely starcraft, and even there, players like Idra find a way to make a name for themselves for being BM, and disrespectful ass. He wouldn’t do it in tournaments, he would do it in ladder matches, but a Korean player answered back in public on TV recently. I enjoyed it. You cannot go around talking shit and dissing people while staying behind the computer, and acting well on TV. Some people are not as fake as you.

PS Though I have to note, that Idra is at least clear about his opinions. He doesn’t hide the fact that he thinks everybody is shit, and he is the king. With some of the SSF4 players, it’s much more two-faced cowardly stuff going on. It’s actually entirely “talking from back and smiling to the face and hugging” going on.

20

Please, provide some evidence. Because I see none as yet. Like a video footage where Japanese players act the same way, may be?

Because otherwise it seems you judge others by your own high/low standards, i.e. “I am an asshole but so is everyone”. No, not everyone is asshole.