Yeah, I do agree. I use duck up close much less than in SSF4.
Had anyone success with frametraps? CrMP - crMP? fMK?
I understand that canceling MP into LK Duck is technically unsafe, but so is just about any dash cancel in the game. In spite of that, CADC and other dash cancels have become a vital part of several characters’ (Ryu, Raven, Abel, etc.) pressure games. Even going back a post or two, the acknowledgement that HP is unsafe isn’t a reason not to use it, it serves as a caution to use it in the right situations.
I’ve had decent success at B+ using Duck to set up mid-low-throw games; I’m not sure if this is because people tend to respect pressure more at this level, I’ve just been lucky, or it actually works, but it is what it is. If you find you’re running into a button masher, use Duck Straight instead of empty LK Duck to dissuade them from wailing on that jab. Worst case, they block and you’re still safe.
As far as frametraps go, I’m still working things out - still feeling out how best to use f.mk.
Is duck straight safe??? I haven’t had time to test hardly anything unfortunately. Work:(
From my practical experience to date, yes, but don’t quote me on that. I’ll try to give it the ol’ Ryu shoryu treatment as soon as I’m back home.
edit: Might as well add - I tested regular CADC in Dudley’s strings, it seems a smidge (sorry I don’t know how to test this rigorously) faster than his Duck cancel, but with the CADC, you lose the attacking option that Duck Straight gives you, so I’m not convinced it’s worth the trade off.
I tried a bit with fMK-crMP-crMP to catch my opponent pressing a button. There’s a slight gap between fMk and crMP where you can mash a jab.
The rest is pretty cool frametrapwise, you counterhit a lot of people pressing anything, then confirm into the second crMP into anything.
Any frametrap ideas with Target Combos? After a few you can link a e.g. crMP, so they could be ok +framewise on block? On some the pushback is just too big.
Having trouble with Rolento’s pokes, can’t get in with Dudley what gives?
So I’ve labbed Duck Straight pretty thoroughly, and here’s the good news - it’s only punishable by 3 fr. reversals. Oddly, Ryu could punish with his HP shoryu, but Ken couldn’t, probably due to hitbox differences or # of grounded frames or some other esoteric fighting game nonsense.
Verdict: Duck Strong is a pretty safe string ender and its threat will allow you to safely set up your Duck pressure game.
Regarding frames on target combos: Here’s my best **estimate for frame advantage for each based on my notes/testing:
f+lp > mp: +1
c.lk > mk: +1
f+hk > mk: 0
lk > mk > mp: +3 (I think this might be your best counterhit setup - c.mp will still reach after pushback on block)
mk > hk > hp: +1
c.lk > c.mp > c.hp: +1
lk > mk > mp > hp: +1
f+mk crLk-Mk (target combo) fLp-Mp done properly that complete sequence is a frame trap. your opponent presses any buttons you get a full combo. both of those target combos can be easily cancelled into lp srk cr Mp Mp srk. no meter combo or ex MGB combo. if they block all of that cr MP duck under and start again
i HATE HATE HATE the fact that you can be grabbed out of duck under on reaction. if you do an empty ducking you can get grabbed right at the end while recovering. which makes dudleys pressure game a bit more frustrating. only place ive had optimum success is in the corner (i.e. dudleys best position).
i will say that otherwise dudley might be a slightly overpowered char. he hits so hard can get anywhere from 300+400 dmg off almost any hit confirm. its ridiculous. honestly if he had great pokes he’d be to god-like
So it should be punishable by 3 frame stand jabs? If so that’s gonna be bad news. We all know how much brain dead damage jabs lead into.
Can’t wait till I get a chance to try out all this new stuff. Great work guys.
I don’t think it can be punished by 3 fr. jabs; Duck Straight has too much pushback on block, it would seem. I’ll get back in the lab and run through to be sure though; who has the longest range 3 fr. jab?
In other news, I’m toying with mcclearyb0y’s idea of incorporating thunderbolt into my game - only instead of doing it randomly once a match, using it after a blocked c.mp, c.mp block string and seeing if I can set up an ambiguous left-right.
My only concern is how close you have to be to get the c.lk to connect after a blocked f+mk. I’d imagine you need to be really close to get this to work. Thoughts?
And can anyone get anything good of a counterhit anti-air mk?
Cammy prob has the longest jab.
I wanted to try the same thunderbolt setup. Maybe the lk version after 2 c. Mp’s. If you beat me to it let me know how it works.
As far as anti air mk counter hit I’ve been doing some different stuff. Usually lk duck upper. Sometimes. c. MP into mgb.
For Dudley f. Mk I think it’s good after jump ins. If the opponent isn’t mashing DP. Also as an option on the opponents wake up. You could try and time it for a meaty setup. And the same thing after a roll if you anticipate it. From there right into whatever frame trap works best. Or something easily comfirm-able like c. Mp
Sorry for being delinquent these past few days - soccer season is in full effect and coaching is starting to eat up a lot of my play/lab time. I have some more findings/questions:
I haven’t been a huge of f.mk after jump-ins for precisely the reason you alluded to. I’d much rather jump in deep with f.hk and then use his lk>mk>mp target combo, which in addition to doing good damage on hit makes for a solid frame trap on block. I’ve found that f.mk, c.lk is a tricky link online, f.mk>mp, is hit or miss depending on the depth of your jump-in, and the reversable gap between the jump-in and the f.mk gets me hurt sometimes. I’m all ears if you can make a case for f+mk over other options, though. We’re all still learning here.
The more I use it, the more I find I’m liking Thunderbolt. It’s great to occasionally end crouching blockstrings, and it’s nice on wakeup against people who backdash or keep their distance to avoid wakeup JU. The multi-hit nature of the move makes it great for safe tagouts as well.
Anyone else finding that his solo meterless damage off a jab confirm is a bit anemic? I’m still only getting around 200-250 midscreen. Am I doing something wrong?
And here’s an interesting neutral game idea from SilphDK, who’s been running Ibuki x Dudley since the patch. If you know the cast fairly well, stand just outside their best poke range, and either use s.HP or s.HK to try to counterhit them into a combo (raw launch for the HP, buffer into (EX) MGB for the HK). Most of the time you’ll be whiffing and building meter, but if you have a bar, you’re cashing 400+ dmg off of a poke. While I don’t have Silph’s encyclopedic knowledge of the cast, I find the approach intriguing. Let me know if any of you have any success.
ive been working on doing a lot of meterless combo’s with dudley and if you end any string w/ a Lp Srk the timing is strict but you can connect a cr Mp into whatever move save for SSB. which should give you mid 300 dmg easily. if you wanna get more dmg your gonna have to burn the meter which w/ dudley is usually worth it.
how are you all dealing w/ zangief, hugo, and dhalsim players? i’ve had problems w/ all three of these characters for obvious reasons… just looking for advice/new ideas on how to get in and out on these characters
Mid-300s solo meterless off of a jab confirm? Do tell. I’ve been ending all my combos mid-screen with lp jet, c.mp xx Duck Straight (or Upper if you want to tag cancel) and am certainly not getting near mid-300s. Wonder what I’m doing wrong?
As far as the Hugo matchup goes, at range, you can use s.HP (or even Duck Straight and backdash) for footsies, varying your timing so you don’t eat a lariat, anti-air him with s.mk or Jet Upper, and punish his Lariat dash cancels with MGB. Up close your quick normals and target combos should keep him from even attempting a lariat. The only recourse he should have when you’re in his face is to blow meter on an EX 360 or alpha counter.
Gief is a little trickier, I’m still working out what pokes beat his, so I’m not terribly comfortable doling out advice on this.
Same goes for Sim, I haven’t actually played one yet, but I’d imagine Silph’s ideas might come into play.
And this is random, but I think there’s something to be said for whiffing c.mp relatively frequently to build meter and give the illusion of activity.
300s dmg on full combo of jHK f+mk lk-mk(target combo) lp srk cr.Mp ducking straight/upper depending on what your plans on are. knock down or tag out.
if you get a hit confirm off jHK you can just do sHk lp srk etc etc. probably more dmg. i usually catch people slipping after f+mk tho. and i have more options to cancel into after lk-mk on block
i know you have quarrels w/ f+mp because of the range you have to be at but thats range i ALWAYS like being at w/ dudley.
Are u using counter often? If yes, in which situations?
I found that a lot of people consider him low tier. Do you agree?
I use counter rarely - which doesn’t mean it’s not useful. I’m still working out how to incorporate all of his tools.
And tier talk bores me. Think of it this way: Dudley has tools. It’s up to us to find a way to make him work. He has ridiculous walkspeed, strings that are cancelable and give frame advantage, a great overhead that does insane meterless dmg in the corner, a srk with decent invincibility, a counter, moves that are safe to tag out of off, and an alpha counter that you can combo off of. His biggest flaw is the reach on his normals, which I’m convinced we can work around. We’re one month into new content - people don’t have any idea what’s good or not.
Is Dudley easy to play? No way. But if you can get in range for his mixups, you’re doing damage.