81

It would be really, really stupid, but unless I have video proof I don’t like to make claims.

82

its really short duration >>

83

Well, it can’t be too long, otherwise you can permanently lock down characters like Wolverine between Stigma and Ground Fire, assuming it’s still unblockable.

84

My personal liberation charge thoughts:

Destructor (3 is obviously best): always reliable. If you’re not sure what else to do, use this one.
Creator (1): If you need an OTG option (you’re playing rushdown) or just want a quick charge and don’t lock into D3, grab this one.
Creator (2): Looks really good. Forces them to superjump or block it, you can set up teleport shenanigans and if it hits you get 2 charges and to hit them as they’re coming down.
Creator (3): Use mostly against runaway or rushdown. Lolstorm.
Hellfire (2C1D): Need to confirm if you can teleport before it’s over. If so, use it for resets either with teleport or fly/unfly/airdash crossups. Sexy as hell on Liberation assist.
Hellfire (2D1C): OTG of choice? Hard to say. General usage will depend on startup/invulnerability if it has any.

85

A few more questions. Does Stalker Flare OTG? That would lead to sick liberation/stalker flare combos.

Can you combo 3D into chaotic flame to destroy assists? I’m still trying to feel out how I would want to paint my hands. I’m torn between always trying to have 2C and be able to choose between a stigma setup or a hellfire OTG or having 3D for being able to destroy assists on reaction.

86

Yeah, this is the only one I look at and think “eh, why not just use 2C1D”? I also think these two should be swapped. The spikes are a feature of the Creator series, so why does 2D1C have a spike while 1D2C has the powerful hellfire?

I’d like to know more about the hitbox on the spikes as well. The spike seems to chill there for a good second or two - does it have a hitbox that entire time, making it a nice little wall from rushdown? Does it interact with projectiles at all?

Not to my knowledge, but I can’t wait to get the same so I can answer all these questions with certainty…

You can OTG with Purification and then cancel into Chaotic Flame though.

87

Alright. Stalker Flame just sits there for so long that you could probably paint your hands once or twice while stalker flare is hitting them and go stalker flare/ hellfire for lots of damage. I can still hope. XD

88

Don’t make the mistake of thinking Stalker Flare lasts a long time. It’s actually a very short hyper. Players, in their inexperience, keep trying to instinctively evade it like Dhalsim’s ultra, expecting it to fizzle eventually. Once it actually connects, it only takes a moment to use itself up. Once players get used to the idea that Stalker Flare will hit them eventually, players will start actually rushing into it to ensure Dormammu doesn’t have too much personal time.

89

Ah. I see. You’re probably right. Looking at the videos again, it seems like someone getting hit with it would give you time to paint your hands once OR throw out a 3D liberation. I was imagining both.

90

Thought question:
Do you Dormammu fans think he needs a “get off me” assist? Between pushblocking and his teleport, I wonder if it’s really necessary.

91

He might be able to survive without one, but people like Wesker and Phoenix who have good teleport games are going to make it a pain in the ass without some sort of assist for that.

92

It also looks like Mag’s beam shit is so fast it beats most of Dorm’s long range stuff on reaction; not sure how that’s gonna play out or if you’ll want to just use Dorm as an assist if Mag’s on point.

93

Imo he does not need a “get off me” assist. He has many moves to not let the opponent get near you. I believe that a skilled Dormammu player should be able to control the spacing between Dorm and the opponent. So, if they do get in your face, then it’s your own mistake. If they do somehow get inside then these moves (in theory) will help get the opponent away from you.

[LIST]
[]He can pushblock & teleport
[]0C0D Liberation
[]J. Medium or J.Exchange
[]Fast Backdash - If you’re not in a corner
[/LIST]

If the opponent teleports they can only go above and behind you, which is predictable, and you should be able to respond accordingly to the situation.

The moves below will help you keep the opponent out.

[LIST]
[]Ground flame - (This will be my most used move)
[]Suffer - (I’ve heard this has good priority)
[*]PotC & PotD charges
[/LIST]

I don’t know how effective his flight mode is so, I can’t say anything about it yet. Imo Dormammu can counter different strategies, if the person playing knows how to use him.

94

I’ve thought about that, but the issue is I’m not confident Dormammu can sit around with no assists just waiting for those teleports. Wesker can combo off of his gun shot, and it’s fast enough that Dormammu can’t eat the bullet with Dark Hole every time. So how would, say Ryu’s AAA really help him against Wesker? Phoenix looks like she will always be firing projectiles and then using those to cover her teleport too, so once again she looks to be rushing off of ranged hit confirms - it would be really risky with her health to teleport in blind.

This is part two of my thinking. After watching today’s videos, a fear of mine was confirmed: Deadpool and beam spammers are going to be a bit tough for Dormammu unless we find out Suffer rocks them completely (unlikely). As I said above, while teleports are scary, even scarier is teleporters being able to combo out of ranged hits.

Whenever I see traditional rushdown characters going after Dormammu, I see him just teleporting behind and away from them as they get too close. Is someone like Wolverine really that scary for Dormammu compared to Magneto’s beam spam and Wesker’s teleports? Not remotely in my opinion.

Yeah, this is important too. Since Dormammu is a teleporter, you should never really be in a “corner”. I read the rest of your post and agree with it BTW, but I don’t think it quite addresses what I am concerned about specifically. I thought Wesker can teleport directly behind you as well, not just in the air, but I could be (and would love to be) wrong.

So my hypothesis is that Dormammu needs a “wall” to protect him, which not only protects him from ranged spam, but also protects him from the projectile-approaches of Wesker and Phoenix, and also makes the less scary rushdowns like Wolverine even less scary. Dormammu could also use a normal projectile, but that’s not as effective against Magneto-types, and it’s pretty hard to time a beam to cancel a beam.

So, hypothetically, I am thinking of Doom’s rocks and MODOK’s shield. Other possibilities, depending on how they interact with projectiles, are Phoenix’s emblems (assuming she has them as an assist), Sentinel’s sentinel force. Other ideas are counter assists, a rush-out assist like Cap’s Charging Star if it beats projectiles, Tron’s rock (does it beat projectiles?), aaaand…I think that covers it. If Hsien-ko gets her gong as an assist, that could be added as well.

Thoughts?

95

Seth said he can play rushdown is that because he has an 8 way AD? dormy doesn’t look like a rushdown type to me.

96

Seth didn’t say he could play a rushdown role, just that he “has some rushdown ability” due to the 8-way airdash. In other words, it would be a mistake to always think Dormammu should be running away, or that he will be. If your opponent is pushing too aggressively, it’s not necessarily a bad idea to punish that aggressiveness when it becomes careless. Dormammu can also use his teleport for surprise attacks, so even if he is facing a character like MODOK, who has the screen filled with crap, Dormammu can teleport above him and skip the mine field. If MODOK decides to run, Dormammu can catch him in a Dark Hole on the runaway, ideally.

97

Sorry, I meant to say that Wesker can teleport above you or behind you. I heard that Dormammu, Wesker, & (probably) Phoenix can all teleport three times before recovering.

(Theory)
Wesker or Phoenix fire a projectile and teleport behind you. Dorm has a fire trap activated. Since Wesker/Phoenix are behind you they will most likely try to attack you. Lol, the only thing that I can think of doing is: dashing in front of your fire trap. This is assuming that Wesker/Phoenix did not call an assist. Superjumping will be too slow since (let’s assume that Dorm blocked the projectile) he is still in stun. He can’t teleport away since there are frames when he has to disappear and he will definitely get hit. The no charge liberation is expected so Wesker/Phoenix can choose whether to attack or bait you.

Yeah, I also think that Dormammu will need an assist to deal with projectile teleports. MODOK’s shield could work since it will block the projectile, and Dorm will not be stunned. If the shield is still active, he can dash in front or teleport behind the shield for added defense. I hope Doom’s rocks still beat projectiles but I don’t know if they can follow the person who teleports behind Dorm. I think Trish’s peekaboo trap will work. If you set a fire trap and set her assist behind you, the person who teleports behind him will get hit since there are traps in front and behind Dormammu. I think Ryu’s AAA will depends on your reactions. If you’re fast enough you might be able to hit the person. But I need to try that out.

This all theory so I don’t know how it will work out against people who teleport. But I definitely think that Dorm will need an assist to deal with them.

Against people like Deadpool and beam spammers, Dormammu will need an assist like IM’s beam assist. As long as Dorm is able to put pressure on the spammers, they can’t activate their beam spamming. I was thinking that if they start spamming, I can teleport in and attack them during the attack . But I’ll have to predict when they’re going to spam, because there will be a pattern.

MODOK’s shield will help as well. Since it blocks most projectiles, it will protect Dorm and even negate their spamming. Since the opponent will see that their beams or spamming cannot destroy the shield, they will have to find another way to spam.

I need to see which assists will help out Dormammu against spammers and characters who can teleport. That’s why he will have to use his zoning and Liberation tools in order to have an advantage against those playstyles.

98

[media=youtube]dO61fmJgnUo[/media]
@3:55, is Modok blocking low, does that mine opp have to block high against ground fire or do I have Modoks block animation all wrong?

99

Are teleporters really that big of a threat if Dormammu has Stalker Flare?
All it takes is pushblock and Stalker Flare to regain your compusure. Maybe even power up your hands for hellfire to punish teleporters.

100

It’s hard to tell whether MODOK just stopped blocking or decided to block high at that point. Someone else claimed Ground Fire hits low, but I’d like something more official before I misinform people in the OP.

How can you Stalker Flare when your ass is being kicked? The issue isn’t teleporters being close to you, it’s that teleporters are technically always just a step away no matter what you do. Teleporters in this game have almost no delay afterward; you will definitely not be able to punish with hellfire unless you predict the move. You can Stalker Flare to gain a moment of peace, but after that moment is over they’ll be right back on top of you - keepaway has no meaning against teleporters, and Dormammu needs his meter to actually kill opponents; he needs a team that can protect him from beamers and teleporters.

I heard that for Dormammu, but not Wesker; if so, that is good news.

Yeah, you can do this, but then you just reset the situation; you’re both on opposite sides, and the fire trap is chilling between you again.

This is an interesting idea though - play against teleporters without charges intentionally. That is an idea worth considering, assuming the explosion has a nice hitbox on its backside.

That was pretty much my thought, but MODOK’s shield does not last long at all, so it really needs to be spammed, which makes it really easy to punish. If you are fighting a Ryu, all he needs is to Shinkuu xx KFC Shinkuu and you just lost MODOK. That’s not a comforting thought in my mind. I’m really, really hoping Sentinel keeps his sentinel force assist just like it was in MvC2, because the more I think about it that kind of nonchalant pressure is exactly what Dormammu needs.

The rocks annihilate normal fireballs and only do okay against bullets and beams. What’s important is that while the rocks block, Dormammu can punish the opponent’s projectile (check the moment in the Keits video I have in the OP where he punishes unibeam).

Haha, that’s a fun idea, but I wonder how awkward that would be to keep setting up.

I disagree with you here. The opposing point character can spam beams so much faster than your assist; after watching yesterday’s videos, I can’t see a beam assist really helping Dormammu against Magneto’s Disruptor spam.

Agreed entirely. It’s essential to remember those teleports are just as good for offense as they are for defense. Just as Dormammu should be scared of teleporters, so should every other keepaway; and Dormammu is a teleporter.

I can’t wait for Sentinel’s reveal…