The DHC Trick - Damage & Hit-Stun Scaling Reset

[Sixfortyfive]

In order to remove the DHC Glitch, Capcom would have literally overhaul the whole damn cast’s Super/DHC properties

You sure?

[Kikuichimonji]

Anything figured out with ammy,domo,tron thats worth using?

Read the first post and go into training mode and test it out yourself.

[Momochuu]

Anything figured out with ammy,domo,tron thats worth using?

Can probably combo into Beacon Bomb with Tron, then do Veil of Mist or whatever it’s called with Ammy for a DHC combo.

[MoFro]

I’ve got some sick Ammy/Tron (and Tron/Ammy!) set ups. But they’re a secret!

jk… I’m planning to record a video of my DHC shenanigans and other combos, just as soon as I am done with 15 hour days at work.

[AceKillah]

i feel while it does make the top tiers more top…tiery?

it also helps those less used characters like Thor/Arthur/X23/Deadpool etc.

so honestly i dont think they should patch it out but when Super MVC3 (whatever) comes out i would like to see 90% of characters start or end the glitch IF they cannot remove it

[Dime]

it needs to go.

but it looks cool and is lots of fun to implement.

will it look cool a year from now though? as far as im concerned, probably not.
i dont think QUITE as overpowered as some make it out to be… but it is definitely a bit OP. any starter>super>dhc>dead character is a little much for 2 meters.

but the fact that it generally takes 2 meters to do is the only balanced part of it… most characters with level 3’s can kill with bnb to 3… so DHC trick doesnt seem so bad on paper, BUT the problem is that, that 1 meter difference is crucial. add in the fact that dhc trick is much more flexible than lvl 3’s as far as meter consumption goes (lvl3 usually has to be saved for, or has to come at a time where the user hasnt had a good chance to use his meter) but DHC trick is pretty much always there.

when i think of DHC trick i compare it to:

team supers (2-3 meters)
2 or 3 times DHC

and its certainly more powerful than those.

-dime

[chickensandwichk]

Here’s something I’ve been doing with Deadpool and Wesker:

Deadpool: c.L M H S (s.j.) a.M H S (land) A1 S (s.j.) a.H S (land) Katana-RamaxxChimichanga! Cuttin’ TimexxRhino Charge (DHC)

Wesker: low Samurai’s Edge c.M s.H S (s.j.) a.M M H Aerial Exchange

Deadpool: a.M M (d.j.) H S (land) (jump) Bullet Super (OTG)
~1,100,000 damage

I always forget to do Wesker’s QCF+M c.M s.H after the DHC so I imagine this combo might be able to get to 1.2 million depending on some variation. You need about 1.3 meters to do this combo unless you’re in the corner and can get Deadpool’s full aircombo with a.M M (d.j.) H S cause then that’ll build a whole meter in which case you only need one meter to start this combo. Also, the Aerial Exchange needs to be a downward or a sideways one as you’ll need more meter if you started with 1-1.3 meters if you want to finish with Deadpool’s Gun Hyper Combo. If you started with 2 or more meters then you can AE upwards. And a good starter for this combo is Deadpools Forward+M and Wesker’s gunshot as that creates an unblockable but just keep in mind that you can’t combo with Wesker’s gunshot later as you’ll have already used that assist in this combo. Have fun

[inControl]

it needs to go.

but it looks cool and is lots of fun to implement.

will it look cool a year from now though? as far as im concerned, probably not.
i dont think QUITE as overpowered as some make it out to be… but it is definitely a bit OP. any starter>super>dhc>dead character is a little much for 2 meters.

but the fact that it generally takes 2 meters to do is the only balanced part of it… most characters with level 3’s can kill with bnb to 3… so DHC trick doesnt seem so bad on paper, BUT the problem is that, that 1 meter difference is crucial. add in the fact that dhc trick is much more flexible than lvl 3’s as far as meter consumption goes (lvl3 usually has to be saved for, or has to come at a time where the user hasnt had a good chance to use his meter) but DHC trick is pretty much always there.

when i think of DHC trick i compare it to:

team supers (2-3 meters)
2 or 3 times DHC

and its certainly more powerful than those.

-dime

What dime said right here, right now its fun but honestly as the game progress and people discover more ways to exploit it, its not only going to become essential but its also going to force people to draft the same team everyone else is using. I dont want the game to become universal like how Mvc2 was.

Overall, i dont think it really belongs in the game and i still consider it a glitch that capcom is currently ignoring or trying to fix it as we speak but its proly deep in the code of the game. as easy as it is to gain meter and to dump massive damage in combos, with air exhanges, x factors and DHC’s. I dont think that a simple level one super DHC into the glitch is appropriate for this game. If that were the case why spend time lowering Sents health and removing Caps infinite?

Mark my words, the DHC glitch is going away its only a matter of time and im going to laugh at the people that relied on it to win a match ( you know who you are)

[Fr0st_Blade]

In order to remove the DHC Glitch, Capcom would have literally overhaul the whole damn cast’s Super/DHC properties…which would take a long time to fix.

Uhh… no it wouldn’t. Even something as drastic as not letting characters get hit while in spin state would fix the DHC glitch. And that’s a DRASTIC change. They could very easily fix the problem without resorting to that.

[inControl]

Uhh… no it wouldn’t. Even something as drastic as not letting characters get hit while in spin state would fix the DHC glitch. And that’s a DRASTIC change. They could very easily fix the problem without resorting to that.

Meh that wouldnt solve it completely because OTG capable people Deadpool and wesker can still pull it off. its not an easy fix, but it will get fixed by the first major update this game gets

[PkMn_Trainer]

A lot of people are throwing the phrase “MvC3’s balance issues” around.

Really? “Balance issues”? plural?

MvC2 was a game where balance was “an issue”. In SFA3, once you brought V-Ism into play, balance became an issue too.
MvC3? Hsien Ko versus Dante? That’s not “an issue with balance”, its a bad matchup. There really is a difference.

Some characters will always end up better than others, because there is no such thing as a perfectly balanced game. For that reason, given enough time for the metagame to realize who’s who, those better characters will always be overrepresented in competitive play. It’s obvious why.
With or without the DHC glitch that is going to happen. You need to realize that. Once you do, you will also realize that assigning blame to the glitch for the natural consequences of the inevitably imperfect balance of the game (tiering and all that follows) is silly.

As it stands, the glitch is just another tool some characters have to deal damage in the game, the same way some supers are better than others and some teams DHCs have better sinergy with each other. As a way to deal damage, its a gimmicky one.
None of what you expect to change will change by removing the DHC glitch. Its just another mechanic, if an unintended one.

All of that being said, i wouldn’t mind if it went. I wouldn’t mind if it stayed either, but there really is no need to remove it. MvC3 tiers should read "Retarded characters, Awesome characters, Really good characters; btw these teams have good sinergy: "

This guy got it completely right. NO MATTER WHAT you do for the “balance of the game” character variety will always be slim at the top of highly competitive events. There will always be rogues but just like in any other video game, trading card game, or even sport meta will be highly prevalent. If you go to a tournament, play what’s good. If you don’t happen to like what’s good, make a fun team for casual and side events. Hey, you could just go and try and develop an “anti-meta” team or something.

[Fr0st_Blade]

Meh that wouldnt solve it completely because OTG capable people Deadpool and wesker can still pull it off. its not an easy fix, but it will get fixed by the first major update this game gets

Whoops you’re right. I don’t use DHC glitch capable characters so I forgot all the specifics of it. But you get what I mean.
Don’t allow spin state characters to get hit + instantly recover instead of unrecoverable knockdown OR instant recovery from spin state if DHC happens.

[Hraklea]

Some characters will always end up better than others, because there is no such thing as a perfectly balanced game.

And that’s a good reason not to try to balance the game the best as possible?

[Nobus3r1]

Whoops you’re right. I don’t use DHC glitch capable characters so I forgot all the specifics of it. But you get what I mean.
Don’t allow spin state characters to get hit + instantly recover instead of unrecoverable knockdown OR instant recovery from spin state if DHC happens.

When you say instant recovery from spin state you mean full blown the opponent techs and is back in business, correct? If they go that route then that drastically reduces the usefulness (even outside of DHC trick) of the starter hypers.

[J.D]

People who want the DHC glitch removed might as well start bitching for every other 100% combo in the game

[Alegretto]

And that’s a good reason not to try to balance the game the best as possible?

It’s already very well balanced. My point is that the DHC glitch does nothing to change that good balance. As i said, this game tiers should read “Retarded Characters, Awesome characters, Really good characters” because everyone has tools and show potential. The DHC glitch is just another variable that goes towards team sinergy, not character balance. Fixing it will still leave you with all your perceived “problems” of balance because you’re under the wrong impression that character balance mans “Dante/Wesker/Phoenix should die die die WhyIsHeSoStrongNooooooo” which has little to do with the DLC glitch and everything to do with Dante/Wesker/Phoenix having better tools than the rest of the cast. Even if you were to nerf them, somebody else would take the spot of top tier in the metagame and then you would want them to be nerfed because its not a problem with how Wesker/Phoenix/Dante play specifically but a problem of some characters being better than others, which is inevitable. Finally, it turns out a huge amount of characters are tournament viable, so the “balance issues” are practically nonexistant and only in your mind.

So, in short, you’re treating the DLC glitch like its “a balance issue”. Its not. Its just an unintended mechanic. No character is made or broke for having it or not. And what you call “balance issues” are not, are just a normal development of any competitive game where some tools will be better than others in the long run. You shouldn’t fight the metagame because it can’t be fought. You should only fight overpowered tools that are really gamebreaking, not just hard to beat. As i said, Hsien Ko vs Dark Phoenix is not impossible for Hsien Ko, its just really hard. That’s a bad matchup, not an unbalanced one.

[Hraklea]

You shouldn’t fight the metagame because it can’t be fought. You should only fight overpowered tools that are really gamebreaking, not just hard to beat. As i said, Hsien Ko vs Dark Phoenix is not impossible for Hsien Ko, its just really hard. That’s a bad matchup, not an unbalanced one.

When I say “balance”, I don’t mean that all team comp should have exactly 50% chance versus all team comps. By “balance”, I mean (and I think most people mean) no broken stuffs and no useless stuffs.

One hit kill is stupid by itself, even if all characters had acess to that. I don’t think I really need to explain why this is stupid and boring. If one hit kill was good, fighting games wouldn’t have life bars. =P

About your “F tier vs S tier is just a bad match up” argument… F tier characters never worth to pick. Is Phoenix S tier? Is Hsien Ko F tier? That’s not the appropriate thread to discuss that… but bad match ups are supposed to be balanced by good match ups. F tier characters never have a good match up, and S tier characters never have a bad match up, by definition.

I’m not trying to “fight” the metagame. I’m saying that we should take the chance to improve it.

[akuma31]

No character is made or broke for having it or not.

Uh, it actually makes Wesker and Amaterasu broke, Wolverine, Deadpool and Sentinel top and makes Storm a staple in combination with any of those characters.

Let’s not forget Dante whose already top. He’s not as high as Wesker and Amata though because his Devil Trigger is restrictive similar to Wolverine, you HAVE to combo to get the 100% while Wesker and Amata can keep looping.

edit: ooh I just thought of an idea. Zero might be able to DHC loop off of his Sougenmu and Felicia might be able to OTG similar to Storm (based on what I’ve seen) off to the lab I go

[evilweevle]

In order to remove the DHC Glitch, Capcom would have literally overhaul the whole damn cast’s Super/DHC properties…which would take a long time to fix. It would be tougher than anything that they have patched so far. I guarantee you it will lead into some unintentional nerfs.

or they could just fix the fact that damage and hitstun scaling get reset after certain DHCs, and make it ya know…keep scaling.

[Mr.Nannie]

as a storm player…
nuff said