I don’t really know why this is in the MVCI section, but whatever. To the OP, I think you are confusing us (and yourself) with what you want. You start out comparing the innate complexity of fighting games with the simplicity of FPS/RTS games. Then you talk about ways to get fighting games on the same level of popularity by changing that complexity. Now, you’re talking about preserving that complexity and just adding a simple mode for noobs. What do you really want, exactly? You said it yourself: FPS games are simple BY NATURE. How can you hope to match that simplicity when you aren’t willing to simplify those core mechanics? The answer is you can’t, and you shouldn’t. That complexity is core to the identity of the standard fighter, and you can’t drastically change that without ruining them. Developers are making a few mechanics simpler/easier here and there to bring in a bit more casuals, but they are aware of what I’m saying. I’m thinking what you really want is for Smash Bros. style games to become the new standard. It’s the closest to matching an FPS/RTS in terms of simplicity with a high skill ceiling. TBH, it might accomplish what you want, but I doubt the dedicated fighting gamers would be ok with that.
it really doesn’t take that much time to learn enough combos to become competitive. spend a few hours in training mode as your starting point. start building your game from there. I imagine this is how every competitive game is.
I don’t think casuals leave because moves are hard. They leave because they lose.
There’ve been comparisons to Counter Strike and DotA, and I want to say the things said about those games are wrong.
OP relates to loving FGs since their inception; I can attest to the very same thing for CS and DotA. I’ve loved that shit since the day it was made and I’ve been in the scene before we were even called a “scene” (they came out later than FGs so you don’t have to be as old to be OG, you just had to be in the right country cause North America gave zero shits about DotA before DotA 2).
And I can tell you that tons of “casuals” drop the game because they fucking suck. I’ve seen them all come and go. They tinker with it a little bit, but when the game starts and they’re up against someone good, they do absolutely jack shit before dying for the thousandth time, so they never play again.
It didn’t help that you could “click and things would happen”, or press a button to move and “it would happen”.
Come to think of it, I’ve never heard a casual complain about shoryukens until the first time they get mauled. Then all of a sudden it’s all, “I swear I did a shoryuken! This game cheats.”
So the real problem you have to deal with is how to make losing suck less. I’m not saying it’s all on you to fix that. No matter how good you are or how much you love to learn, there’s always gonna be a time when you lose and you get salty. And there’s always gonna be someone better than you so you’ll never run out of Ls you have to take.
But my point is, I don’t think making the controls easier will do anything, unless you also address the fact that losing sucks a lot more than not being able to do a move.
Fantasy Strike is coming out soon.
I am not against a mode for people who want to play it where they can do moves with one button and combos by mashing a few buttons but then it is his own mode and it doesn’t touch anything else.
No half damage if you do it this way kind of crap, you want to play like this, then you play this mode with people who want to play this way too.
But then people will not like it because they might feel tossed aside, which would not be completly wrong.
The fun of fighting games for me is the reward you get for training at them. If I can’t do something, I spend hours in training and then I start to do it in real games and it feels good.
I even go back to USFIV sometimes just to play training mode and do the combos because they are not that challenging in SFV.
One thing I don’t get tho is the “motion to do moves” problem. I don’t want to offend you but come on. Since I did not start that long ago (with USFIV) I remember very well my start. First I started on keyboard because I had nothing else and I could do moves after one night. Granted on keyboard it’s easy, then I switched to stick and it took a few days to be pretty consistent even in combos. It’s not like it takes months.
I also have a friend who started with SFV he has around 50 hours on it (most of it is playing with me or with friends not training mode), he plays Karin which is arguably pretty hard execution wise compared to most of the cast, plays on pad and he has trouble doing combos for sure but he does moves motions in his sleep already.
Hell he has a friend who is the typical casual button masher and he does the moves no problem. He doesn’t even own the game.
I am talking SF but it’s the same for any game.
Good point, and in that regard I do see a way fighting games can help casuals deal with it. The only problem is that it’s very difficult to design and probably too much work for a non-guaranteed result. What I’m referring to is an automated coach.
It’s possible to design an in-game coach that records your inputs and overall performance each game and gives pointers for how to improve your game after a loss. This could be useful to anyone, but would especially be useful to casuals who don’t really know what they’re doing or why they’re losing.
The issue with it is that there often isn’t a clear distinction between what decisions/practices are good or bad in fighting games. Some things that aren’t good in one situation are great in another. Because of this, I doubt an in-game coach can get sophisticated enough to give accurate advice for every game, or even most games. I could be wrong, but it just seems like too much work for the possible reward of a casual wanting to learn and stick with the game.
Dudes will still complain once they come up against someone who has better spacing/footsies and reading ability.
You know which moves suck? Just frame moves. MKvsDC decided to add pro moves. They were moves you could enchance by hitting a link inside of them at a specific frame. They thought the “hardcore” players love that shit. Guess what the “hardcore” players did?
Tell them to take that out because it was a stupid idea.
But here you are telling us that its what we apparently want. Fucking hell.
So many long ass posts about how to make fighting games accessible…yall couldve been practicing combos instead, and then you wouldnt need to worry about if the game helps you win or not
I wonder if the FPS scene has to deal with stuff like this. “Auto aim should be allowed online” lololol
Divekick had two fucking buttons and the difference between understanding fighting games and not was heavily apparent in it.
Two fucking buttons.
People still got bodied by fgc.
On two buttons.
Bodied.
#2buttons2many #KeitsPls #1buttonYomiBestGame
A pad player just won Capcom Cup, a pad player that was also fucking sick at the previous SF which was much harder in terms of mechanical skill.
So basically get your weak-ass excuse of pad players having difficulties learning fighting games out of here.
Also what the fuck is wrong with your “I can’t get the move out”-bullshit.
In an FPS you get the headshot every time you want it, and don’t need to practice like a fiend?
Making shit easier doesn’t appeal the casual gamer.
What appeals the casual gamer is the illusion of there being more than just the 1v1 element.
Let them have it and let them fuck off when that shit is exhausted and tell their friends how cool this game is.
Our favorite game racks up sales and Capcom or whoever will support it for a longer time, great.
I don’t want to be left with fucking Rising Thunder though, when those retards finally fuck off.
If you want fighting games to be more popular, look over to Mortal Kombat and especially about what NRS does aside from delivering a core fighting game.
They got a recognizable brand, they got the violence gimmick that always rolls with young people, they deliver a shit load of content for you to unlock and they are bringing in guest characters.
The core fighting game is questionable in terms of quality, but that doesn’t even matter to a casual audience. People want to sink time into those single player modes and talk to their friends how Cassie Cage saved christmas, then be done with it until they can play as fucking Alien.
Capcom failed to deliver completely on the casual playerbase with SFV, even though the core gameplay is made for casuals, which is retarded as fuck.
I hope they learned from that mistake and do a better job on Marvel, though I doubt it, since those monkeys still try to push e-sports in a game that doesn’t have any youngbloods coming into the game, since only people who were already hooked on previous titles play that fucking game.
Pair Play is the only hope for casuals. When casuals played SFxT pair play is all they wanted to do. Hoping they can team up with someone good who will take them to victory. Those fuckers never wanted to be on point.
Okay, but the execution is a former of PvE. So is character knowledge. Granted it probably isn’t the PvE you’re thinking of (I guess I don’t really know what you mean by PvE) but it still counts imo. And fighting games have some of the most advanced PvP there is.
I like how there’s apparently no execution in WoW, FPSes or MOBAs.
Let me fucking tell you how retarded I am at FPSes. I couldn’t get a head shot on a standing enemy. MOBAs have all sorts of nonsensical decisions, limit your attacks with a retarded counter and are full of wack ass strategy more obtuse than “control space” in an FG.
I guess we need a clicky clacky fighting game so people can feel good. I might address some of the finer points into some long complicated post that the OP and his buttbuddy will ignore because they just want SRK to turn into a giant group hug or I could go do something useful. I’ll do the latter.
Execution is even worse now in fpses now that niggas can superjump
I just had a thought about this. For people who don’t want to input “complex commands” (QCFs, or 236s) why not use charge characters, like Guile, Remy, Vatista, etc? Then it’s way more about the timing then “complex commands.”
Great response. I agree with the gist of what you’re saying, let’s widen the view, and deepen the discussion so we can apply what your correctly saying in a more full body discussion.
You are correct when you say many noobs leave because they lose. However let’s widen our view.
As I mention player accessibility is not a one-silver-bullet solution. It will take a suite, a multitude of solutions to fully address.
First let me defend the simplified-inputs as a small part of the solution, then I’ll address your point about noobs leave because they don’t win.
Easy access to a special move a casual player wants is part of the solution. Is it 10%? of the solution? Is it 20% is it 30%? We don’t know how much it will solve. However this video showcases as proof that simplification of inputs does contribute to keeping interest of new players: https://youtu.be/AGrIR_jlLno (at 3:00 minutes simplification of complex inputs helps his friends stay interested and says himself at 3:40 says simplification is one of the methods to keep new players. What’s really sad is the hardcore players game-mechanics could be completely preserved, by giving noobs all-access to special moves. Instead of that solution Capcom has taken away most(all?) one frame links in SFV. There are solutions to keep that high level game-mechanic with no compromise. Yet still give noobs access. But Capcom chooses to water down the game mechanics. Players should ask for better solutions.)
To directly address your point that noobs leave because they lose, yes, however that is only in a PVP laser focus view.
There can be additional options as people have mentioned, a suit/multitude of solutions for the casual players to win. These players can win in survival mode, they can win in campaign mode, win in high score mode, and other creative PvE activities. We don’t have to make this a zero sum game. Or a zero-sum product, that lets other products provide a more complete offering.
This solution would not only help with player-accessibility, it would also help with player-stickiness overall helping increase our player base.
A larger player base helps us all.
Video mentions you could simplify commands for a few seconds, focuses on how its mostly irrelevant since these dudes hate losing anyway for the rest of the video.
You ignore the rest of the video and focus only on the few seconds.
What more can we say?
How does PvE bring more players to tournaments and grow the fgc?
I got a headache
It sounds like Dragon Ball XenoVerse is the game your looking for OP.