“True strength is achieved when you can read your opponent, but defeat them without exploiting their weaknesses.”
So above is Daigo’s statement or to me his theory about winning. IMO I just think he has natural born talent or a gift in what he likes to do. But is anybody really buying into what he saying or is it more to winning than just “reading your opponent”?
This sentence doesn’t make any sense.
I wonder how many stream monster fanboys he has in Japan. People who will buy the book but will never show up to an arcade to play vs tough competition…
My opinion is Daigo is trying to say don’t rely only on expecting to punish mistake of your opponent. More you play versus someone and more he will erase his mistakes so at a point you have to rely on something else to beat him : True strengh is here
“Weakness” means “bad habits” for me
Maybe he wrote it in a vogue way to make it sound more complicated than it actually is.
I don’t think what he said (if the translation is correct) sounds complicated at all…
In the same time it’s just a translate quote. Nobody knows what he said before or after 
i think this is exactly what he means… it could be said another way though:
play the matchup, not the player.
playing the player means analyzing them and then exploiting there weaknesses… which in turn means that they can compensate by switching tactics… whereas playing a matchup… theoretically somewhat eliminates the players ability to do anything outside the matchup that you didnt already know.
never really subscribed to that whole concept of thinking outside of like ST. but of course it makes sense. although daigo himsef doesnt play that way. we can all see him lose a few games or 2 against new people till they are downloaded and then beating the stuffing out of them… but that isnt playing the matchup, thats playing the player. if he were playing the matchup he wouldnt need to download the player since he already knows how to play the matchup.
anywho daigo probably means that thats a playstyle to ascribe to, not necessarily that its totally achievable. he himself may be trying to get there…
who knew the beasts theory fighter would be so profound :rolleyes:
-dime
Some months ago i was so sure that aiming for bad habits was the best strategy. Specially after watching two of the best french players here (Alioune and Louffy) play several time. But in the same time i was always wondering what if your opponent has no weakness.
Some times ago i watched Alioune play several match versus some of the best Cody in Europe and he was explain me the bad habits of his opponents (spam cr mk with cody, stand up and “spam” throw during blockstring in defense, etc) and obviously with his character (Yang at this moment) he had the tools to beat and punish those bad moves. Only with that it was enough to “beat by” his opponent. Even after 20 or more matchs, the same strat was working.
Louffy has almost always the edge one the best players in France like Starnab (Fei Long), Cuongster (Honda). It’s look like they always do THE mistake that Louffy is awaiting.
At a point i started to think that bad habits are so “bad” that you cannot erase them just because you want or **you are aware of **even if you are a good players
But this quote of Daigo make me rethink of that
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TC reminds of the faggy commentators in this vid.
Good example. But I guess my question is how do you get into that state of mind? I mean Daigo just isn’t saying this just to talk or sound godlike, this man has been playing for years much like us and I believe he’s played so many people across the world that he’s saying “here this is my way of helping FGC” specifically the U.S because we do have those bad habits you speak about, but on the flip side of the coin, I think he’s putting this book out to somewhat say he’s ready to hang it up.
People are going to blow stuff out of proportion cause of Daigo’s quote and are gonna complicate their lives and try to find out what he meant cause they think it will magically make their games 10 times better all a sudden. Just play as much as you can, vs stronger players than yourself if possible, and react to everything the opponent does, every single thing, literally everything. When you try to react to everything the opponent does, from my own experience that’s how you start adapting and win.
Everything means everything timing, distance, normals, specials used, patterns, everything the player can do in that game you should watch closely. Everything YOU do should be some sort of reaction to what your opponent is doing even if he she is not doing much, your still reacting to the fact that your opponent isn’t reacting or being very passive. NOTHING you do should be something just to throw it out there even just a slight movement, cause for that slight moment your doing something random, not only are building bad habits, but also you are not reacting to your opponent and your open for something unexpected, that random movement for example could cause you to suddenly be in the opponents good range and your at a disadvantage etc.
That’s how you end up seeing those few seconds in matches where it seems like nothing is happening when in reality a lot is happening, a good example is those chun mirrors we all love in 3s. When two players don’t attack recklessly, they know it’s just not the right time to do so, according to what the opponent is doing, if the other player was just walking forward all day, while the other chun had sa2 stacked, then the chun would of just cr.mk into super all day, because he would be reacting to that other player making that mistake, but he is not, and he does not see that particular opening.
In just a few words, IN MY OPINION it’s all about, Adapt = Watch and React = Win
Watching without reacting means you know what the opponent does but don’t know what to do about it.
Reacting without watching means either your probably just reacting to one thing or you just use pure reaction ability without reading your opponent which will eventually lead to a loss even though you have sick reactions.
All of this is all IN MY OPINION, but even since I accepted to drop everything else and focus on playing like this, my gameplay has gotten better, way better.
Some of the excerpts that I’ve read contradict him picking Yun in SSF4AE because he wanted to win. I would still listen to what he has to say since there’s not many who have reached his level of success, but I wouldn’t take what he says over common sense. Exploit the hell out of your opponent’s weaknesses. We’re talking about playing a video game, not self defense.
That, sir, is why I thoroughly enjoy playing against you in Alpha 2 from time to time (under the name randomdps).
The play-style you described is identical to the way I play when I want to win. These days, I’m usually just messing around with people, trying to hit them with the biggest shit possible, and ume-dp’ing like everything they do because I’m bored.
This worked on you for about…I don’t know, 1 or 2 sessions, and you shut my silly, bullshit-y tactics down, forcing me to play a perfect game. Adaptable players are difficult to find, let alone in A2 (let alone with fucking…Adon of all characters).
GG’s.
Without context all I can gather is: Don’t depend on your opponent’s mistakes/bad habits to beat them.
Why are you guys overcomplicating this? It doesn’t mean don’t punish your opponent hard when they make a mistake, it doesn’t mean don’t exploit their weakness (Daigo ain’t scared to counterpick). It just means don’t depend on it, because they might not give you the chance.
This goes in line with what he said years ago about how he can classify player “types”, which is what other top players say too. They’ve played so many people over the years, they can’t remember what all individual players do, they just remember player types, identify them quickly and know how to approach that type of player, even if they never played before. They don’t know your bad habits/tendencies yet.
It’s why it’s dangerous to play these people in long sets, they are gathering data and the more they have, the more fucked you are.
He’s pretty much saying rely on developing solid fundamentals and your own strategy over researching and trying to defeat specific players’ strategies. He’s just saying not to depend on your knowledge of the other player’s habits to dictate how you play them and to be solid within your own right – a big issue people have when practicing in their friend circles is they rely too much on knowing what the person tends to do wrong – so they get an inflated sense of skill because they can beat everyone they know just because they know how they play.
That doesn’t result in you being a solid player, just teaches you how to play specific match ups when they are played a very specific way.
This also.
One of the most productive things I’ve learned making the jump from casual to competitive is developing this mindset. I find myself taking losses in casuals just to absorb information and build a repository of moves and situations I want to learn to respond to – I keep a journal now full of my notes about my own habits and moves I need to develop reactions to – it has helped A LOT and has drastically improved my ability to adapt and respond -during- a game too.
I find that it is difficult to qualitatively assign a definition to the concept of “weakness” in a fighting game upon considering the subjective perspective we all must have on what is truly a mistake, a bad habit or a fundamental detriment to a player’s conception of a game.
Aside from the obvious “lol-whiffed-a-DP-two-character-distances-away-when-I-have-full-meter-loooooolz!” idiocy or ignorance, it really is difficult to determine just what it is which constitutes an ill-advised tactic.
Often times, while playing against rather sharp or knowledgeable competition, I find myself faced with very few opportunities to really punish any blatant mistakes. Personally, after two decades of playing fighting games, I have come to internalize this very basic question: “what are your mistakes?”.
When I began to consciously and actively ask this question in-game, I eventually concluded that anything can be construed as a weakness; especially the things my opponents are proficient with. Some people would consider this a “read”, but I do not. I define a “read” as a logical and/or instinctive estimation of what an opponent may do in a given instance—be it by pattern recognition, the logical progression of a mind game or “just a gut feeling”—and not necessarily your approach to exploiting them; or, in some cases, allowing them to exploit themselves.
Example of what I mean:
They have an incredible Reversal DP on reaction (I’m referring to games back in which having a consistent Reversal ratio was actually commendable). My plan? Do my best to exploit his skill, and essentially turn his own awesomeness into his downfall. I’m not going to try to “read” jack shit, I’m just going to make certain that I dangle a hell of a lot of not-too-obvious bait in his face; and safely, at that. In a lot of games, the best way I’ve found to accomplish this is to simply use what I like to call “fake meaties”. It’s simple: throw out a meaty such that it looks to be a meaty, but isn’t. On the final few frames of their wake-up, it should still appear to them as though the attack will connect, and if they are of the ilk to dp meaties on reaction, they most likely will be fairly comfortable in this spot, and DP. You’ll block, say “lolnoob” to yourself, and receive a nice combo for your troubles. They started wising up? Pffft, yoou can either fake-meaty into throw (comes out almost instantaneously), or start running actual meaties. Test dat water.
Some guys even like to input Reversals while their character is being combo’d on the off chance that their opponent will drop said link or combo, and eat a Reversal to the face. This is only a mistake depending upon who is fighting whom. A good player will most likely not do this unless they are fighting someone who they know will complete at least 90-95% of their BNB’s. If I know that this type of player coughs Endy coughs knows that I will complete my BNB’s, it is a pretty juicy spot to attempt to obtain even more damage by safely allowing them to Reversal by dropping my combo intentionally. The Reversal comes out, I land a big goddamn CC/VC on that ass, and I rake in the pot…errr…life bar. Sneaky shit. Yes, they can just block, think “wtfnoob?” to themselves, and get out of a combo unscathed. However, “you can’t lose what you don’t put in the middle, but you can’t win much either”. It’s a fairly worthwhile risk, and has won me matches multiple times against good players.
You’re not so much reading how they will respond as you are merely giving them ample opportunity to respond in a specific way.
You need to GIVE yourself an edge, and turn their strengths into weaknesses; otherwise, to alter or paraphrase the great Michael McDermott quote from “Rounders”: The whole game can become a fucking grind.
This is how people make a living playing poker; by “Learning To Exploit The Regs” (regulars)—“Exploiting Regs” is also a very insightful book—and using their mastery of the functionality of the game against them. That is how poker is played and, in my opinion, how people would do well to approach fighting games.
I suppose there’s a lot to disagree with in this post.
Shiiit I wish I would disagree a qoute from Rounders gets praises from me 
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This is the right answer…
Daigo has said this before - he said something along the lines that American players don’t force as many mistakes on their opponents but rather depend more on the opponent to make them. At the highest level, the top players will not give you these kinds of opportunities, you have to force them out.
You didn’t take the whole quote. He was talking about learning character match ups instead of your opponent’s bad habits.
Also worth considering that if you are depending on your opponents’ mistakes to win you the match, what do you do if they adapt and don’t make that mistake any more?