I’m trying to learn this character because it seems like no one uses him, and he has a nifty move set. What are his options for reversals? Also, what the heck do I do with his summer ball? Any useful properties on his ex moves?
Just checked the guide out and it says 31 frames for vertical, 35 frames for diagonal. I’m usually verrrry hesitant to believe the guide though, and I don’t know how using normals affects him during the neutral jump. Fun thing that that I had happen a couple times though, if you pressure with EX spinner ball on block and then set up neutral jump fierce, you can get certain reversals like Julia DP and Ryu EX DP to whiff :D.
Vulcan has Yoshi as point, but other good Yoshi’s don’t. I guess my point was that I feel that a character being classified as an absolute point or anchor is still pretty early to do, as I don’t even think we know exactly what makes a good one. I mean, Dhalsim can be a good anchor if your team strategy fits.
It’s definitely true that his oki game is pretty similar to his regular standing game, but I would have to say that’s true of a lot of characters in this game. As opposed to SF4 and more in line with games like Virtua Fighter or Tekken, you don’t really have a completely different set up that you would never do in standing play (although some characters certainly still have things like that, it is a street fighter game). It’s just a situation where you are at a lot more advantage than normal, and you know all of the limited options the opponent can use. Bob is in a position where the opponent has to let him start st.LP/st.LK or neutral jump pressure. St.LP can beat Ryu’s lp SRK, some of Julia’s DPs, and a few other reversals, so it’s a strong option against wake up. And you’re right with Bob’s jump, as you can usually react to rolls and put them in a nasty cross up situation.
I just started messing with auto correct stuff with king actually, and I haven’t really gotten around to applying to Bob. Honestly it seems like he doesn’t need it though. cl.LK is a good meaty to use, and it turns into a quick long range low if the opponent rolls. His jump is fast enough to cause headaches for your opponent on wake up. I imagine either special step or spinner ball can be auto corrected, but they can probably roll and reversal before either of them are finished. Contorno farce is actually a decent move, it’s just really slow and super punishable if you’ve seen it before. It’s usually better when the opponent is frozen because of Bob’s pressure and you’ve been mixing in lows to keep them honest. He has a good CH move in fst.MK > overhead, as both hits combo on CH.
Well swoops already discussed why ex spinner ball can be useful very recently. His ex special step is really good for a gtfo out of pressure button, especially if they jump on your wakeup. Ex cracker is one of your few reversals, it is invincible on the first frame, but is generally avoided since you cannot combo jacker after it (you can do something, right? I forget).
In general Bob’s ex moves are sub-par, because he needs the meter for cross cancels (his biggest weakness is fast pressure) and tag canceling things like spiral rocky and contorno farce.
Spinner Ball, as Swoops said, has little use outside the Ex version. That said, its P is safe, and its mixup is high risk, with potential high reward. Players not knowing of Bob will often not block high to stop the overhead, and the hard knockdown is welcome, and the low, while horribly unsafe, can reset a combo and do strong damage when followed by cracker/p or k. All in all, it is yet another mixup they have to worry about, but overall his gaufrettes is his most important option (there is a whole topic on it here), and double ciapatti is his safest/easiest.
In general, Bob is a high offense character that takes advantage of his long limbs (some like jab do not have a hitbox) to play outside their pressure and start mixups with his gaufrettes, use his c.lp to go into his very damaging BnB, gains great positioning from the knockdowns he ends his combos with, and can do some very naughty stuff with the fastest jump speed in the game. He is tricky, but if you can get used to the slowness of his moves and keep them in his optimal range you have one of the most underrated and unknown characters in your disposal.
Lastly, learn how to use cracker as an antiair, it is pretty strong and can juggle afterwards, even on some trades! Oh, and learn his BnB!
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Swoops: so the patch dropped, and while it says it only covers what was already mentioned, there are random rumors paul walks faster and that Raven’s shuri/tele mixup has been removed. Since I do not have my PS3 if other fixes seem to be found, I deem you be the one to see if Bob changed at all.
Wired God: For more info, check out the recent stuff in this topic, especially swoops and nos99 posts, the video thread (for footage of ryan hunter and other Bob, i plan to update soon), the become the benedict thread for a great post from swoops, and the footsie topic for a lot of info on various things, especially gaufrettes.
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Haven’t messed around with him too much, but he seems the same. Apparently the changes to each character are so minor that they didn’t do any patch notes.
Makes me think that any other changes will be pretty difficult to notice
Poo. Um, I had a question and I am unable to test. Does the multi-hitting of panini flip and perfect press on block make either safe to tag cancel, and can the juggle after panini press on hit be tag canceled for lots of damage or is its juggle potential borked?
Almost done with my general Bob synergy guide. It will either be fun or really annoying, since another post inspired me to write it as Bob. What? I get bored on rainy days.
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This was in another thread, I am helping paste some info here since its mostly just bob talk.
Woah, thanks so much Intuitive.
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You’re welcome, bro. Peace out.
Comparing Bob to other zoners, I wonder if it is important that, as we said before, his job is more to maintain a life lead than to start the match creating it. Does this make him different, being a zoner relegated to the second position, compared to your usual zoner, who plays point and sets the pace incredibly early? Does he have some tools that most zoners do not have that benefit late game or second character play, like mixups and good solo damage, where he is lacking the zoner’s usual best friends to setting the pace on point: projectiles and dps?
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So Lei has two meterless moves that create a crumple state without counterhit, double tiger palm strike and spinning headbutt, that can be canceled and comboed with Bob’s Granchi Loop. Gonna look for more synergy here, or at least a way to work these moves into Lei’s game.
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So Bob’s changelog has been out for some time, let’s start talking about it and stuff! Truth be told, I am really excited about a lot of things.
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Improved LP Cracker=improved an already underrated Aair tool. While virtually every character got a similar Aair buff, Bob’s jump speed and incredibly ambiguous crossups will make these affect him less than much of the cast. As for the EX version, making it neutral on hit and making it faster finally gives Bob something he desperately needed, some form of reversal.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Buffed walkspeed=better grounded footsies (already strong with st.hp, lk, etc), tighter blockstrings, and I hypothesize let us connect combos in juggles we could not previously (more on that later). Speaking of footsie game, the +2 on Bob’s c.MP will make this a strong neutral tool, since it can now combo into BnB on hit or Apres on block.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Fast Break change=amazing. A grounded overhead for Bob is nothing new, but this being cancelable I feel is going to be huge. Canceled on hit you get 25f, same as c.hp to do virtually anything you want. On block it is 17f, enough to go into Apres for a high/low and make it pretty safe or spinner mixup/safe option. But the fun does not stop there, with Fast break viable means that one-two punch is now viable. It is a safe string on block that can be canceled in itself, notably comboing into Cracker or Apres Sweep, the latter giving a reasonable 50/50 thanks to Fast Break (and somewhat ambiguous because Bob bends for both moves) and being safe on most characters. The change to Bob’s jab annoys me because it makes it less unique (added hurtbox), but the 1frame off should make it easier to land in follow-up range to make these strings more viable.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Spinner Ball mixup is more rewarding (if not exactly safer/viable):the overhead option’s hard kd is better with the introduction of roll punishing, and I hypothesize that with the movement buff and new boundable moves, you can convert the low option into a groundbounce combo to do more damage (it already works in the corner now with c.hp). Lyonnaise Break should also be able to be groundbounce follow upped in the corner thanks to gaufrettes punch.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]And speaking of those boundable moves, I think they are going to add a lot, and make Bob’s combos look a great deal like ones in Tekken 6: popping them into the air, bounding them, then continuing from there. Gonna need to play the game to find out exactly what works and what does not though. Let’s not forget that the first hit of his super now bounds and does not add to the juggle count, so now it can be used as a finisher to a juggle combo and perhaps an Aair (though it lacks invincibility).[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Some people are sad the Granchi Loop is gone. Do not be. As I saw said, the +2 on block is loads better than a dangerous and situational loop. I am also pretty sure that we can get solid damage from the wallbounce effect, since Bob can use a bounding move like cl.HP to get a great combo going.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Lastly Ex Jacker looks like an improved fireball punish and raw tag punisher from fullscreen, to better suit the lame game/raw tag trap options Bob has that are great for draining clock.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Might as well be done, let’s talk nerfs. Well, just nerf. Spiral Rocky’s loss of invincibility will weaken it considerably as a frame trap/tag switching move on block, as the opponent really has to be conditioned to block now. Given the variety of Bob’s strings now, especially coming off 1+2 punch, it should not be much of a problem.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=15px]Lastly, a Why Teh eF didn’t they fix that? The two things that spring to mind for me are Contorno Farce and Gaufrettes Cutter. The former is easily Bob’s riskiest mixup and does the least damage as well with its correct guesses: I would have liked to see either a fix on the final hit’s unusual groundbounce (can only be comboed with LP Giga Jacker) or make the second hit no longer whiff on crouchers (not that any opponents know this >>) as a more creative fix rather than just add safety to both it and his horrendous sweep. As for Gaufrettes Cutter the move is completely useless as it is. A cool fix would be for it to hit low like the animation looks but incredibly unlikely. Instead, the initial frame data had this move as a +6 on block (causes backturn) but in reality I cannot even link 4f moves after it. If it was given the frame advantage I feel it is needed, then Gaufrettes would finally have the option it really needs: a non-boost combo/launch means of continuing a combo from a hitconfirmed st.lkxxst.mk (link c.MP into BnB).[/FONT][/SIZE]
I don’t have a problem with the nerfs, spiral rockys something I can get over, espiecally considering they buffed everything else. But granchi loop? seriously?! Im someone who spent hours learning how to do el fuerte’s RSF loop in sf4 online (I was pretty consistant, hitting around 3-4 times) and I recently started to learn what made granchi loop tick, how to do it a bit more consistently etc, hell, I was even writing up a thread explaining how to get 3 hits on a regular basis… but now its gone! damn, well… thats no fun, and apparently lei gets his loop?! like what kind of logic is that?! his isn’t terribly difficult, and hell, its so abusable, my friend was doing around 5-10 hits consistently online with that, and you can link it from cr.hp, whereas granchi loop was almost impossible to switch cancel into (I only know of a few characters moves that even let bob pull it off, and then you had to do a double 1 frame link, thats insane)
Bob’s changes are a bit of a mixed bag for me right now. On one hand I think he’s going to be a much better point character, on the other it seems like he lost a bit of his uniqueness and abusable stuff.
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s.LP hurtbox is the one that caught my eye and makes me feel the worst :(. s.LP into gaufrettes strings was just too damn good, a meterless relatively safe mix up option that can be used at almost anytime with a jab that can hit through reversals because he was just so far away. 4 frames is good though, and honestly I’ve been learning to space different light normals into gaufrettes anyways.
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I am very disappointed about the spiral rocky nerf, and I’m surprised you guys aren’t. If they honestly removed all of the invincibility, then it serves no purpose whatsoever. Incredibly slow, no realistic way to lead into it. So many characters have awesome multi hitting moves that are invincible in some way, or can be put into a block string. As far as I’m concerned it’s a taunt now. It pisses me off further when I just found out that it may just be the single best oki tool in the game. Autocorrect special dash, spiral xx tag cancel. Beats any reversal, any super or cross art, and any back dash (with the exception of vega or poison obviously.) It follows rolls, and punishes all of the previous after the roll. The opponent has to sit there and take the multi hitting move and tag cancel mix up on every knockdown (and I play Lei, so you have no idea what I’m going to do.)
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Even that’s a bummer, he got some cool stuff. Fast break being pretty serious now is cool, so I guess he lost a useful move and fast break became useful. Greater AAs is a bit excessive considering he already had good ones, but a win is a win, they’re crazy good now. New combo awesomeness is a plus too, definitely a lot of options. I think this is part of what’s going to make him a better overall point. Can’t wait to test out some new ideas.
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Could kinda care less about Granchi. Having the +2 is nice, but it’s still pretty slow and telegraphed. I imagine you could just poke him out of it during a blockstring (like in between gaufrettes cutter or cr.HP xx langue washer, both which have smaller gaps.) I was never a big fan of granchi, sure has some cool stuff with the loop, but I think all of Bob’s other tools kind of outshine it though. We’ll see, the +2 is always nice.
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Definitely not a fan of the hard knockdown EX jacker, although the 180 damage is a nice upgrade. It was one of bob’s awesome comeback factors. Be on the other side of the stage, and with one meter BOOM, tag cancel that shit for a huge damage cross up. Still gets your character in with some damage done, but still it’s less awesome :(.
Lei lost his loop like a month ago I think, don’t think you can hit more than two.
I was pissed about jab too but as I said earlier, I think the change to it made it better for how important 1+2 punch is going to be, and Fast Break cannot be an option if you are hitting from what was once the most optimal range for this move. That one less frame should be strong, especially with his new c.mp frametrap. And as you said I think it is better to use c.lk into c.mk anyway. Still perturbed since just as you said, that move was so unique.
Rocky as oki? That’s mad ridiculous though I am going to start trying to use that until they take it away from me. I see how you can be more pissed than the rest of us because you were using it for such cool things, as for me it was really only an option for tag canceling or stuffing incredibly stupid moves when I empty step towards them. In this way it is still more than a taunt, since you just have to keep them blocking for a second and with Bob’s other options that should be pretty easy. I wish it wasn’t a straight nerf though, like they should have made it slightly juggleable.
You can tag cancel and combo after an EX Jacker? Wow I had no idea. Or is the blockstun so great partner can run and crossup? Did not know either. I am still retaining judgment from this fix because I need to see it in action myself. A 180 fireball punish that allows you to get and set up oki or use it to punish raw tags similarly sounds great, but there needs to be a great duration of the move for it to be so since Bob wastes most of it flying away from his opponent. If it gives you enough space to set up oki and especially roll punish even with tc I might forgive it.
Bob as a point character will help me out because with the exception of Poison and Guy and a teensy Elena all my favorite characters are anchors.