The BlackHeart thread

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
81

Neither, start Iron Man.

Doom,IM,BH - I’d be better with this team in a different order. ie. IM/BH/Doom. Because IM is better on point than both Doom and BH, Doom and BH offer up better assists for IM than does IM for either of the two of them. Also BH is ass on a team by himself, so making him last is not ideal. But this order does have it’s advantages… that being the DHC into IM as you mentioned. This team (in any order) gets pretty much owned by all of the big four. Sent being the only one to have issues with them… that being because he’d have to dodge a LOT of shit all the time.

So I’d have to give it a 5. In the order of IM/BH/Doom I’d give it a high 5… around 5.5 or 5.75.

BH/IM/Cyc - another team I think should have IM first. This too gets a 5 because we’ve sacraficed a better character (Doom) for Cyclops, but in turn got a better assist out of Cyc. Like the first team here, the big 4 own them. Only instead of Sent, now it’s Magneto who’d have issue because he’d have to play a bit more conservative worrying about if/when Cyc is popping out on screen to set up IM or BH infintes.

82

Actually, I only said it was a triple infinite team because you mentioned that about Mag/BH/Cyc. My Doom is much better than my Cyclops and setting up Ironman’s infinite solo is simple enough. The reasons I had Ironman in the last spot were because to help with rushdown Sent (Ironman’s AAA takes away a good deal of flying space), he’s the best for making a comeback (I don’t really like the idea of chipping 3 characters to death with Blackheart), and his assist can set up Blackheart’s infinite (although much harder than with Cyclops).

83

I guess I’ll post to have folks rate my primary team.

BH/Storm(gamma)/Capcom

This is my tournament team, and I do quite well with them. But don’t worry about hurting my feelings for rating it lower than I’d like to hear… I don’t have any delusions of grandeur about it… I know it could be better. :smiley: But I just happen to be good with it. :slight_smile:

84

Austin is a blackheart country and thiers 1 player that uses that team, it can counter some cable teams if used right. and dhc out to storm isn’t a weak move when u miss ur inferno and do HoD… But if it was someone starting cable first killin bh easily and guardbreak, n killing storm = u lose. I guess u can say it all depends on teh player but over all this team gets a 8 from me but thats cause i’m a cable whore.

85

Teams

I asked Jamal what type of team would be good with
blackheart, mind you that I only play with characters I like…

So I threw out some stuff and ,well I gotta always play
with ironman so…

Blackheart/Ironman/Cammy/ all anti air…

He said the team sounded okay, I asked him cause he
plays blackheart…

Then again maybe I should have asked Soo Mighty,
but he doesnt play BH at least I dont think so…

So basically im asking for a rating… Thanks:)

86

Is Blackheart/Cable/Cyclops any good?

87

Very good team, just don’t start bh vs cable…

88

LightningStorm :

sorry for the late post, but yeah … you were right :o you can roll out of the thingy I mentioned a few weeks ago and fuck BH up :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t know, but I don’t think BH can do anything to harm Sentinel unless he gets him in the corner.

89

Neo Odin: BH/IM/Cammy - good team, but by no means is that one of BH’s best teams. Cammy provides for good assist for BH but for Iron Man Cammy really only provides the “get off of me” assist. BH can use IM’s assist fairly well (I perfected someone with IM assist using BH once :eek: (and no, it wasn’t a scrub… it wasn’t JWong obviously, but not a scrub)) I’d rate this team a 6, because none of the three characters are nearly as high in tiering as they once were, and this team dies a brutal death to Storm and Sentinel.

sHiNeRiK: BH/Cable/Cyc - This team is healthy, it’s also a damage-whoring team. Cyc is about the best assist posisble for both BH and Cable so that makes it good. But on paper this team gets rushed for free. In reality only Storm and Sentinel can rush it for free. Magneto would die to it. Against Cable, if you know how to use BH then you beat Cable. Contrary to popular belief BH is not owned by Cable, the match is simply difficult not impossible.

Thienhavodich: I’d only agree with this statement if the Bh player relied too heavily on Inferno xx HOD and sj.FK. Otherwise, the team of BH/Cable/Cyc’s best chance against Cable is to put BH on point.

ninja sentinel: BH can do things to Sent, but some requirements must be met… 1. BH MUST have a good AAA (Cammy, Cyclops, Capcom, Ken). 2. BH must not be in the corner, and when he is don’t be afraid to use his dash. At the same time, don’t go abusing his dash. BH’s main defense on Sent is J and SJ FP. Alternate this up with the FK and a TON of sj.lk. BH’s LK in the air (his lp too but I like the kick better) beats everything of Sent’s in the air, because it’s quick and its priority is insane. But it has the problem of being light punches so Sent isn’t going to be much more than slightly annoyed by it. But landing these tiny punches and kicks at least offers up BH the ability to keep control of the match and get Sent out of the air and out of fly mode. BH’s primary goal is to catch Sent in the SJ demon infinite and snap him out or keep him grounded and chip him to death with either Inferno xx HOD or Inferno xx JD. HOD is preferable but if the Sent you are playing against knows how to guard cancel then JD is best.

90

hey any hopes for a Sent/cable/Bh or Bh/cable / sent and which sent assist would be best ?

91

Good teams. I’ll give them a 7.

As for which team is better, really depends on the player’s ability to use Sent or Cable. If Sent is the better character, then I’d say use Sent/Cable/BH. Sent is a proven point character, coupled with BH and Cable’s assists folks have difficulty running from him, and when he’s in fly mode those two assists (namely BH’s) really prevent people from doing too much. As well Sent can build meter for Cable.

If Cable is the primary skill on the team, I’d say use BH first this way BH can be used as meter builder for Cable and use of Sent’s assist can be for stopping rush down. This along with Cable’s anti air will give BH the breathing room he needs to waste time and get the meter up.

In general these are good teams, but they get rushed down for free by any character that can rush. While Sent’s assist does help to prevent the rush, against a good rush down, it really isn’t going to prevent anything.

There’s some slight trapping abilities with Cable/Sent and Cable/BH, and Sent/BH. But everyone knows how to get out of those now.

I was going to rate this an 8, but after thinking about it, it’s only on paper that this team is somewhat good. In reality this combination of characters doesn’t beat any of the Big 4.

92

Yeah its just a thought cause i saw it almost win first twice last year but that was the only 2 times this team has ever been posted. I’ve tried different ways to play this team gennerally trying to Run with Bh and build meter for cable. (sent with ground assist) it was doing ok untill they know ur game. :frowning:

But then again i’ve been puting my blackheart teams aside for a while i need to learn how to play other characters, =T. Btw are u gonna be at N-Cubed? Maybe we can get a couple of casuals in. Ur only like an hr away might as well right?

93

Yep, I’ll be at N-Cubed! Omaha is 2 hrs from here… but I’m goin! I’m down for some casual matches and always down for meeting other cool players and especially those who play BH. :cool:

94

Yup, and of coarse u’ll be meeting my friend too its a little shaky but i would prollie say he has the best blackheart in Texas and one of the best cables. So hopefully u can school him so i can have something to laugh about, and he would put his cocky blackheart aside knowing someones blackheart is better than his.

Oh don’t have much high hopes vs me as a good player though, i’m still a scrub, a bad one at that but i’ll play.

95

THIS IS S BUNCH OF BULL SHIT!:lame: :lame: :lame: :lame:

96

What can a good BH do against Cable (like in a teamscrub starter)?

97

BH vs team scrub?
Or BH/Cable/Capcom vs Team Scrub?

In either case…

BH vs Team Scrub: In this case BH will need either Capcom or Cyclops’s assist. Depending on who your middle character is you may even be able to get away with Doom assist to better handle their Capcom assist. But BH in this case against Cable on point will need to be all about the baiting and psyching out of the Cable player – Yes this will be a long fought match. And, while BH is no rush character, you will need to stay on Cable as best he can. Staying on Cable with well placed blocks will bait the Capcom assist guaranteed. Everyone (especially Cable players) thinks Capcom assist owns BH so they are going to abuse him with the thought of “if BH attacks him Cable will punish him.” Well instead of using BH to attack Capcom use your Capcom to attack Capcom. The idea here is not to kill Capcom per se, but to hurt him enough to prevent Cable from abusing him so much. Cable has little offense in this match, his purpose is to try to catch BH’s mistake and AHVB him. Don’t let this happen. How? You ask? Well since BH should be near Cable at all times poking with light kicks and/or punches and blocking a lot of Capcom Assists you will be free to call your Capcom at close range. Doing this will either hit a non-blocking Cable or block stun him long enough for BH to get in the air. When in the air you have to decide “Did you beat Cable off the ground?” If so drop some FK demons and immediately air dash and do not drop any more demons. “Did you hit Cable with the assist?” If you did you shouldn’t have jumped… if Cable’s in the corner Inferno xx HOD (duh). If Cable’s not in the corner then you need to decide if you have a good DHC and use Inferno xx super xx DHC. If you don’t have a good DHC shame on you… in this case you need to ascertain the Cable players skill and decide to either Inferno xx HOD (most damaging, but against Cable most dangerous) or Inferno xx Armegeddon (most random, can be dangerous), Inferno xx Judgement Day (most safe, least damaging), Inferno xx nothing (umm… don’t do this), or jump up with him and get an air combo off. Jumping in general against Cable is some risky shit, but not if you do it right. BH should be jumping against Cable all the time. But BH should not be abusing either set of Demons. You need to alternate dropping Demons with simply jumping and doing nothing. Sometime jump with demons, sometimes jump then throw demons, sometimes jump and simply airdash, other times just jump then land. Eventually the Cable player will fuck up and do an AHVB at Super jump level and BH won’t be up there, other times he’ll do it and BH will block it. Jumping with Demons is the most dangerous because you will be pressing the button way before you know if Cable jumped or not. Your goal is to never be on the same level as Cable, and if you are that your assist isn’t there and the BH is blocking at the very least. Another thing you need to be making sure of is that if you call Capcom or Cyclops out that BH can get off the ground safely without running into the magic bullet. If Cable AHVB’s that assist and BH is over him you need to be doing Air Judgement Day. If you’re good at determining when the Cable player is going to jump and when he isn’t (and any good BH player needs to be able to read his opponent) then you can catch the unwary Cable in sj.FK demons and he’ll be stuck in the infinite. When in infinite DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT continue it. Cable will be built up WAY too many super bars and the infinite likely will not kill him. What you do is SNAP HIM OUT! Get Capcom on screen. If you have done things correctly then Capcom should at this point have half energy at best, now he won’t be able to get all that back while Cable or Sent stalls and both Cable and Sent will be more reserved about using his assist so much. As well hopefully you’ll have another super so you can at least stall Capcom on screen a while and take away more of his energy or immediately snapout Sent or Cable if they randomly pop back on screen.

And as for BH/Cable/Capcom vs Team Scrub… pretty much the same as before except now you have another huge advantage of counter into AHVB… but you do lose the nice DHC capabilities that Storm, Sent, or IM would give you.

98

Wow u should write Blackhearts life story… heh.:lol: . Anyhow thats some good stuff, but when u talk about blackheart infinite do u talk about the with or w/o assist.

And now that u mention it. BH/Ironman/cap isn’t a bad group either. what other aaa would be good with this group?

99

The infinite I’m speaking of is the bouncing demon infinite. Which method depends on Capcom or Cyclops assist. Cyclops assist and you can do it with normal jumps. Capcom’s assist would require doing super jumps. Or if you simply catch them without assist then likely you’d be doing super jumps.

Yeah BH/IM/Cap isn’t bad, but I think I’m biased against IM. To me IM would be better w/o BH and BH would be better w/o IM. IM does offer a decent DHC though.

Good AAA’s for BH:

Capcom, Cyclops, Cammy << These are the best.
Sonson, Captain America, Rogue << Next Best
Psylocke, Colossus, Cable << These are third because it’s difficult to time the usage of these and it’s easy to punish them when the do come out.

Now let me explain why Rogue is in the “Next Best” section. Rogue’s AAA is deceptive. It seems to have at least one maybe two invincibility frames and as such catches rushing Magnetos and Storms a lot. It’s slow enough and holds them for long enough for BH to get his bearings and do what he needs to do to capitalize. It’s also one of the more damaging aaa’s in the game.

100

I’ve been using Sent/Cable/BH for just shy of two years, to a point that many people call it “Team StiltMan” in the northwest. IMO, Sent-A is the better assist to work with. It’s not as vulnerable to the rush as people think it is; Sentinel can protect himself from the rush quite well, Cable/Sent-A can protect itself from the rush, and BH himself has good enough pokes and space control that he shouldn’t be getting rushed too often either. BH/Sent/Commando is a bit stronger against the rush, but Sent-A/Cable/BH is considerably stronger against turtles. Cable and BH both like having Sent-A to punish assists, set things up, and to combo stuff too much for me to ever consider going back to Sent-Y for that team. If I’ve got Team Scrub or Team Watts, I’ll go with Sent-Y… for Sent/Cable/BH, Sent-A is about the only way to go.

BH/Cable/Commando is also a team I’ve used for a while, usually as a counter to Team Scrub. When I use this, I always start Cable, I jump around as much as possible. I don’t call BH unless it’s a fairly clear shot, and I never call Commando first unless I’ve got a flying Sentinel directly overhead. If they start Sentinel it can get a little nerve-wracking, but if you keep on the move and don’t ever give him a moving target then there generally isn’t a good way that Sentinel can attack you without putting either himself or Commando in harm’s way. If Cable runs enough on this team Sentinel’s only real way of chasing him down is to try to keep him on the ground with Commando, which (if you don’t get hit) usually gets their Commando killed because yours pounds on it all day and eventually Cable can finish him off without using much meter. If they start Cable, then you have to stare him down – whoever wins that Cable fight will usually get an OCV for the match. Cable/BH/Commando tends to mess up most opposing Cables, though, because the book on fighting Cable typically says that you need to play a vertical game of super jumping to stay out of the other’s AHVB reach, and BH’s assist disrupts that so thoroughly that the vast majority of Cable players simply don’t know what to do when you take it away from them. Sentinel’s drones are not going to throw this off too often unless the other Cable more or less tries to rush you down with it, in which case you run and create openings however you can. Cable/BH/Commando, if you play it very cool and very passive, give them as few attack angles that you have to block as possible and let it come to you, will very frequently OCV a Team Scrub player. However, you have to play it really, really passive for it to work; if you try to get too aggressive with it, Team Scrub can seize the advantage much more easily.

BH/Cable/Commando does not usually beat Magneto under any circumstances, which is why I only use this team as a counter to Team Scrub. BH has nothing but AAAs, demons, and pokes to keep Magneto away, and that just doesn’t work on a good Magneto; you need both an AAA and a decent projectile assist to fight Magneto with BH effectively. BH/Sent/Commando, for instance, works far better on Magneto than BH/Cable/Commando does.

BH against Cable pretty much requires that you have Commando around and stay in his face as much as possible. You either have to psyche him out in a mind game or you’re basically hosed. Very few BH players realize that BH can do much against Cable – his pokes are considerably superior and he’s a lot more mobile than Cable is, so this match is by no means free. Unfortunately, most BHs don’t know much more than “throw demons and inferno/HOD”. That kind of BH will indeed lose to Cable for free. A more patient one that stays in Cable’s face and threatens him constantly with Commando breathing down his neck can get a lot farther.

For game film, the prototype BH player that you should start from to see how it’s done was, and still is, Alex Valle in his Team Watts days. Nobody before or since has really ever been taped in any decent amount doing it better. If you can find things like B5 film and stuff from 2001 when he was in practice and winning tournaments with Team Watts, download it and study that stuff, because he’s still the best BH you will find in game film anywhere.