StiltMan: What’s up! Lot’s of people have spoken highly of you. And I hear you’ve also hear of me. 
What’s the next big tournament you plan on attending? We need to meet and play each other sometime. And I also hear you’re _blitz’s cousin or something like that?
This thread rules. Thank you very much, guys.
Ok, what about Bh/Sent/capcom vs teamscrub starting Cable? Does Sent assist changes much? And what should cable do?
and what about teamwatts vs teamscrub(sent first). I am really clueless on Sent/BH. I don’t know how to play Sent against BH notr how to play Bh against sent. Any info on that will be really appreciated.
This is a great thread. I must search character topics more often
Yeah u should go to Austin or the upcoming Regionals @ stargate Oct 25-26 and show how blackheart owns. Thier so narrowminded about blackheart saying he’s “low tier” but i think those that play bh flawless with either Bh/cable/cap , Team Watts, or Sent/cable/Bh. Can be played very well. My team might be a lil scrubby and requires alot of turtling but its hella fun. Should try it out and see what u think? And more suggestions on this team will be greatly appreciated.
Sent’s assist doesn’t change this match, unless you choose Sent’s alpha assist. If you have alpha you can punish Capcom with this as well as your Capcom. Sent also takes better damage on assist than does Capcom so calling him a lot is safer than calling Capcom a lot. As well if Capcom gets low, you can let him get energy back by calling Sent instead.
Team watts… which variation of team watts are you referring to? cause I believe the original Watts was something like Storm/BH/Capcom but now it’s Sent/BH/Capcom.
Playing BH against Sentinel: BH will need any of his best assists (Cammy, Cyclops, CapCom). Against Sent I’d say Cammy specifically is the best here. This match is difficult to describe but I’ll do my best. I’ll assume Sent has Capcom’s assist. This match is a loss for BH in general but BH does have options. BH’s goal here is to keep the screen filled with EVERYTHING in the world. Doing this will limit Sent’s mobility greatly. Flying Sent can maneuver around nearly everything but at least you keep control of the match and keep Sent on the run. When in the air FP demons are best against Sent, he can’t rocket punch through them, can’t FP them and is difficult do dodge and punish. FK demons shouldn’t be abandonded, but should be limited to a grounded blocking Sent or a Sent who simply super jumped away or straight up. BH can catch Sent with FK Demons if timed right in the air to start the infinite… if this happens, like Cable, just snap him out and get the annoying assist on screen. If Sent is rushing you like nuts, you NEED to stay in the air. If BH is on the ground and sent is stomping and fly/unflying and assisting, (even if you’re blocking perfectly) BH has already lost this match. When in the air FP Demons should be used but not abused. Against Sent jumping pokes beat out everything sent has (except rocket punch) but at close range no Sent Player is going to be rocket punching in the air. This match has so many varied scenarios that it’d be impossible to truly describe how to try to defeat Sent with BH. Honestly depending on the team you have it might just be better to switch BH out for a better character and use BH’s assist against Sent, which does work.
Playing Sent against BH: It’s a damn shame, but Sent doesn’t really even need an assist to take care of BH even if BH has an assist. But for fairness sake let’s give Sent Capcom’s assist. (Doom and Cammy are also a good assists for Sent when fighting BH). Assuming the BH player is doing as I stated above, Sent is going to have to fly around a lot, being wary of when Cammy is and is not on screen and if BH is in the air or not. If cammy is not on screen don’t be in here line of fire. If BH is in the air dodge demons. FP demons dodge by flying down and under if BH hasn’t air dashed call Capcom to get him out of the air. If BH drops fk demons, wave dash that shit, or if you’re flying fly over them and frying pan or if the situation is right air combo or unfly combo. Sent’s goal is to get BH on the ground preferrably in the corner. Then you can stomp, fly, unfly, assist to your hearts content. If Cammy is on BH’s team then you have a slight worry but if you stay on BH he won’t get her out. If you have Doom’s assist then not even Cammy is much of a worry anymore. And obviously Doom + Stomps + Fly >>>>>>> BH + Capcom.
BH vs. Sentinel: this fight is actually a lot better than people think it is. (But then, most BH fights are.) Since BH/Sent/Commando vs. Sent/Cable/Commando was the one that got asked about, that’s what I’ll go with.
Sentinel starting… How BH wants to fight Sentinel will depend a lot on whether the Sentinel is a guy who likes to fly a lot or whether he likes to stay on the ground and use his beams a lot. If he likes to stay on the ground, your Sentinel assist is going to become a big factor in the matchup. Any one drone of the assist that comes into play will go through the other Sentinel’s super armor, and if he doesn’t get out of the way that’s a free inferno/HOD hit. If he throws the cr. fierce and then aims to fly over the drones, you can often catch him with inferno/HOD anyway.
If Sentinel gets over your head, some combination of Commando and sj. jabs should get him out of there. Giving it a moment when he gets there to see what he’s going to do is not usually a bad idea, because you have to be aware that he might just be feinting a flyover in order to bait out your Commando so that he can call his and punish it. Give him a moment to stay up there and see what he’s going to do before you call yours. If he stays up there long enough without you calling Commando, he may well either call his first or he thinks you’re not going to call yours, and in either case calling yours becomes the right thing to do after a second or two if he doesn’t get out of there.
If Sentinel is indeed the sort that likes to play in the air a lot, then this is actually quite a bit more to your advantage. If he flies too much then he’s basically asking to get inferno/HOD’ed. A smart Sentinel will usually not fly willy-nilly for more or less just this reason. Even so, if Sentinel is flying a straight horizontal direction the inferno often won’t track properly, and if you misfire this you’re in for serious trouble. So if you’re going to inferno/HOD him, zone him a little before you do it. Making him respect Commando is a start. Making him respect that he can’t advance on you after a sj. fierce in flight mode is also good. If he gets too close, that’s where your sj. jabs and Commando start coming into play, with the caveat I mentioned in the previous paragraph. The time to inferno/HOD a Sentinel that won’t stop flying is after you’ve gotten him to respect your other weapons and he gets into this sort of idea that he should wait to see what you’re going to do before he attacks outright – at this point, he’s not flying straight horizontally and the inferno will hit him. If Sentinel is staying just outside of Commando’s range but isn’t stopping flying while you’re on the ground, call Commando and then inferno/HOD without waiting to see if it hits. If he comes closer, Commando knocks them into the inferno and they go for a ride. If they don’t, they don’t have enough space to avoid the inferno and Commando both.
At some point, a Sentinel player will eventually figure out that they really can’t get away with flying forever on BH, and they’ll start going to a mix of the two. By and large, this is when you’re really going to get to work at it. Judicious use of demons, your air pokes, your own Sentinel assist, and Commando should eventually zone him off to a fair degree. That’s ultimately how BH beats more or less anyone who plays patiently on him – he zones them off into the corner where they can’t do a whole lot of anything without running into something that’s going to hurt. In addition, having Cable in the back is no longer an intimidating thing against BH if Sentinel is in the corner – the inferno/HOD becomes an actual chipping weapon at this point. Guard cancel can get you in trouble somewhat in this case but Sentinel is big enough and has a slow enough normal jump that it’s hard for him to get clear of inferno/HOD from the ground.
Other little bits… Sentinel players have a tendency to forget that BH has air judgment day when they’re trying to HSF assist chars… often times they’ll figure that even if BH gets off the ground it’s no big deal since BH “can’t hit them anyway”. Which happens to be false.
Also, learn to abuse followups to inferno/HOD in the corner. If you time a st. or j. rh on their way down from the final hit, you can keep them bouncing and hit them some more afterwards. If you can manage to do this perfectly you can chain the followup into st. rh, sometimes repeatedly, and each time you manage to follow up on a previous st. rh it resets the damage. I’ve killed entire chars after a single inferno/HOD in the corner this way.
Fighting Team Watts against a Team Scrub that starts Cable… well, even though BH vs. Cable is not as hopeless as this seems, it really is better to start Sentinel for this. Use BH to keep Cable on the ground while you super jump over the top and patiently zone them and rush them down. The best footage I know to exist of this tactic in action is, I’m afraid, quite old. The two that best illustrate it are from a December 2000 tournament with Valle vs. Duc (with Valle using Spiral/Sent/BH against Duc’s Spiral/Cable/Sentinel), and Nismor vs. Duc using Sent/Cable/BH against the same team. For some reason, Valle stopped using this tactic when he was playing Team Watts himself, and other than not wanting to risk BH when he’s one of the main point chars, I’m not quite sure why. If you don’t use BH on this fight, Sent/Commando has a lot of work to do to beat Cable/Commando, more than he has to do to keep BH safe by accepting the help. It depends a lot on how hurt BH is, though. But against a starting Cable, Cable won’t have that much meter, so as long as you make sure you make the most of it when you get close to him, this shouldn’t be such a horrible thing. But yeah, I personally am not a fan of starting BH on Team Scrub using Cable/Sent/Commando order.
Thank you very much, guys. I am thinking of using BH as an option, but keeping teamscrub as my main.
When I play Cable vs Bh, I use practically only Hps. I call assists/dash around until I got some space, then I do only j back or sj back. If they’re on the same level(ground or j when I j or sj when I sj) I press HP(if it hits AHVB). If not I press nothing. I think that is the safest/better way to play against BH. Am I right?
Not really. If you stay on the ground, BH can substitute easily for his lack of a real dash by jumping forward. And if you ever leave the ground for basically any reason, you’re basically begging BH to go over the top and drop demons on you, either when you normal jump or as you’re coming down from a super jump. If you super jump, you also are giving him an avenue to jump forward beneath you so that he can threaten you with Commando.
There isn’t really a “rote” way you can beat BH easily with Cable… it largely comes down to a staredown where Cable has the advantage at a distance and BH has the advantage up close. If you can describe what you want to do to beat BH in a short paragraph, and it works, you’ve got some pretty bad BHs.
hehe u got that right, i think my bh fears cables more than sents, thats cause i abuse fp demon and rh demons too much it becomes too damn obvious. But u and ls got some badd ass advice. hopefully i’ll do better this weekly.
is BH/ice man/servebot any good? newb here.
I don’t even got Bhs usually, so I want to be prepared to fight good ones when I fight them. I think its stil hard to Bh to j forward or even sj too close since he has to block/avoid Capcom and Sent assists… not sure. How would you play Cable against team Wattas starting with Bh?
No… Not at all. The closest to decent you could get with a team similar would be Servbot/BH/Doom. Servbot/Doom is shockingly sick. BH/Doom…is, well, BH/Doom!
Though I prefer this team to be either (Servbot/Sent/Doom) or (Servbot/Juggernaut/Doom).
Primary goal with Cable is stay on the same level with BH and at a distance. Random gunshots and grenades will work if BH is at a distance. Well timed and place viper beams and hiper viper beams take care of him (at a distance). You can keep the average BH player at bay (not a good BH but average) with the fierce grenade, as this stops BH’s jumping ability and stuffs an HOD if he tries it. If BH does a Inferno xx HOD and Cable blocks it in the air fall a little then AHVB. On the ground after the Inferno simply AHVB (no push block necessary). If Cable get’s hit when flying screen occurs immediatly AHVB upon standing up.
Additional strats, I’ll let someone who plays Cable respond in more detail. I’ve played against enough Cables to know what they’ll try, but as for actually using him… can’t help much there.
Well, a good, patient (redundancy in terms?) BH is going to be aiming for the following goals on Cable:
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Get horizontally close to him, whether that’s right in his face, above him, or below him.
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Zone him into the corner.
Commando is of great help in doing this, because if you can at least threaten the vertical plane above you if Cable tries to get past you through the air, it gets a lot easier to keep him in the corner. In addition, if you’re below Cable, air throwing him also starts to become an option. This is one thing that few BHs ever even try to do, but beating Cable with BH becomes much the same method as beating him with Sentinel, really: if you air throw, a lot of things gets a lot easier, and if you don’t, they don’t.
Now, if you’re playing against a BH that’s mainly doing random inferno/HOD on you, it’s a pretty good sign that they’re mentally on the ropes and have no idea what they should be doing. It does have its place (e.g. a Magneto or Storm that’s running away and mashing fierce like a madman to build meter sometimes needs reminding that BH can indeed hit them up there) but in most cases seeing a BH do this is usually a pretty good sign that they don’t know what they’re doing at all.
The ways that a BH will try to get closer to Cable and zone them will involve normal jumping forward (and if they call an assist, air block it, of course), and super jumping either in response to Cable normal jumping or when they’re on their way down from a super jump. Thus, a Cable that tries to jump around too much is actually going to get approached far more easily than one who largely waits. However, this puts a lot of heat on Cable, because if he doesn’t jump then BH can simply approach him directly on the ground, and if he goes for a st. fierce, BH can duck under it and potentially even tag someone in to hit Cable. This is why I’m saying that if you’re describing what to do in a short paragraph of specific moves you’re using, and it’s working, you’ve got some pretty bad BHs.
The general goals that Cable needs to use to keep BH out are more or less contraventing the ones that BH needs to use to get closer. As LS said, Cable needs to keep himself at a horizontal level with BH, and if he gets close it needs to be on his terms, not BH’s. Coming in after a grenade to attack and keep BH honest never hurts – BH generally is going to have the advantage at close range, but with the grenades, Cable can create an avenue where he can come in safely, and then get back out again and judiciously use an assist to keep BH from following after him. In general, don’t leave the ground unless BH does it first or unless he’s already blocking an assist so that he can’t take advantage of it positionally. Having your own Commando both to punish assists without burning the meter and to take away some of BH’s vertical game doesn’t hurt – although frankly, Team Scrub is on its way out at the top levels of play because it’s horrifically vulnerable to snapbacks, not because of Commando’s weaknesses on point so much as he only can DHC out safely if Sentinel is the second char in the team order.
Position is everything in a Cable vs. BH fight. If the BH’s bad and hasn’t learned much more than mindlessly throwing demons and inferno/HOD, then yeah, the conventional wisdom that Cable’s going to tear him up applies. If the BH is good, though, then it doesn’t apply, because this is a fight that BH is very much capable of winning if he’s patient and he knows the positioning he wants. The fact that Cable would rather keep a distance lends itself more than a little to a retreating game, which can easily play right into BH’s hands when Cable finds himself in the corner, which in turn can get really nasty if BH is relentless enough about keeping him there. This is why it’s not a bad idea to follow up projectile attacks and go after BH in turn once in a while, because this makes BH stop and think about things a little and pushes things away from the corner a little better – or, better yet, lets Cable potentially jump over BH somewhat safely and reverse the positioning.
Like I said… it’s a staredown. And it’s one that isn’t nearly as free for Cable as people think.
my new team is BH/Ryu/Marrow and i almost beat Abyss 1st body with it. My next project is BH/Guile/Roll :evil:
Good lord 
Up… you’re scaring me. Stop it. Or I’m going to print this out and have Zach make you play that the next time you show your face at a Lanwerx tourney.
Please don’t take offence to anything I say here. I really don’t want to offend you, but there are some things that need mentioning.
Most of us are more interested in being able to beat players at this stage in the game than in being able to beat the computer. We’ve got past that point. You see, a smart player is WAY harder to defeat than the computer. This is why although I have a dreamcast, I RARELY use it.
If you want a good team to annihilate the computer with that features BH, you can use BH-b, Cable-b, Cyc-b. Ironically, this team will annihilate most players too.
Another good team vs the computer would be BH, Storm-a, Guile-a.
Out of curiousity, how would everyone rate BH, Storm-a, Guile-a [Keep in mind there is a Kill DHC order in this team…].
Thank you, Stiltman and Lightning storm.
If BH air blocks an assist normal jumping doe not cable gets the advantage again? I stand still, BH j forwards, blocks assist, blocks ground HPs (maybe l. vb or grenade after it, but he may sj out). And when I am close to the ground and he sjs I can wavedash to get to far positions again, where I can make him block something(e.g. j HP + drones) on the way down and thus keeping control of the match, I believe. What do you think?
Also, is sj HK grenade really safe if I am at sj height and BH on the ground? Like, even after I got hit the grenade will come to BH and avoid HoD/DHC?
I don’t take that as offense at all maybe someday, you guys might see me beating Stiltman in the grandfinal with his own team :lol:
spiderman/BH/cammy ownz by the way :evil:
Hey Ls where is N-cubed being held? the stupid thing on the tourney/events didn’t say where.I already bought tickets hopefully my Bh/???/Tron will be good by then hehe
Family Fun Center
7052 Dodge St.
Omaha, NE 68132
They have a web site, but N-Cubed isn’t on it… but my pic is for a tournament I took 3rd in in 2002. lol!