Yeah but I don’t pressure that much any more since lk scissors is -2! I tend to eat lows randomly after a lk scissors on block…
same.
:eek: After spending lots of time with Bison, I’d like to post some thoughts.
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I feel obligated to say this every time, but this is not Street Fighter IV. Don’t play him like it is–I promise you’ll hate yourself for it.
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Bison doesn’t feel like the passive-aggressive character I initially figured he’d be. He’s slowly looking to be more and more aggro, just not as good at it as most other characters. He needs to move forward with pokes and jump ins. He can get out of sticky wakeup situations, but his defense is ass and he has no real way to advance and stay safe at the same time.
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Bison has good pokes in the general sense, despite the actual frame data being atrocious. Do not, however, get comfortable with just tossing out s.:hk: and s.:mk:. As SN0 has said many many times, the added recovery will MURDER you. Similarly, you MUST CONFIRM into s.:hp: from j.:hp: or other similar combos. If you do it raw, you can get stuffed.
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Bison essentially has three buttons to confirm with: :lk:, :lp: and :mk:. Your links need to be very very consistent if you plan to see success with this character. He doesn’t get free pressure anymore, so you have to take your time and really open up an advantage when you get a stray hit in.
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If you are playing a matchup with someone who can anti-air safely and can out footsie you, you need to get out immediately. If you can trade on either of those fronts, I would risk staying in and playing the matchup as this game favors Bison most times when it comes to trades.
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Spacing slide and Psycho Crusher are not automatically safe anymore.
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Use Bison’s dashes. His walkspeed is awesome and his forward dash is quite good. While his backdash isn’t super amazing in terms of length, it is still good in the clutch, so don’t be afraid to use them.
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You better have a strong partner or you will hate this game, this character, and your closest relatives.
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Bison has pretty reliable air-to-air stuff, but you must put your attacks out just a little early. Just a little.
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Speaking of jumping, j.:hp: is probably your goto jumping normal. It hits incredibly deep, has a good confirm window, and forces trades where most other attacks would simply lose flat out. j.:hk: is not your catch all anymore, but has decent crossup potential. j.:mk: is your main crossup, but it is MUCH more difficult to perform, so please practice before you try to just jump in on people.
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Experiment. Don’t give up.
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Bison has no defense to speak of. If you find yourself blocking a lot, don’t fall asleep at the wheel. Be ready to start your offense as soon as you get a chance; you won’t get many against certain characters. Do not poke with Scissors. Do not poke with spaced Psycho Crusher. Do not follow Head Stomp with Skull Diver if it’s blocked. Do NOT poke with Scissors.
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Bison is one of the few characters who doesn’t seem to do well in the corner. He even expands his damage output midscreen. Playing midscreen gives you more room for Devil’s Reverse, safe(ish) teleports, and access to crossup Psycho Crusher. Play midscreen as much as you can unless his job is corner carry for his partner.
Overall, Bison is not terrible. That’s about it. He’s good to have very close to you because he can still completely invalidate some characters just with his great pokes, but he will be a hard character to main successfully. Without any real way to open people up, you’ll have to be a poking expert and have a very strong partner to really dish out most of the crushing damage for you. He has room for improvement, but the most important thing is to play him like this is a new game. Don’t discount something just because “it didn’t work before.” Prove to yourself that things in this game are bad before you toss them out–similarly, don’t rest on things that used to be amazing. Remember to expend all your resources before you make a judgment about something. You really never know.
My new stupid trick for Bison after you’ve conditioned an opponent to roll on wake up.
Slowly push the opponent into the corner. Score a knockdown near the corner. Immediately teleport behind.
They end up rolling into corner by auto correct.
yan pretty much nailed it, especially the part with him invalidating some characters with his pokes. you actually can get away with blocked hk but it depends on character. Or spacing, or both. To those characters who dont have a fast enough or long enough reaching punish, abuse the crap out of stand mk and hk. but vs characters like Vega you need to watch out.
Bison is a nice battery, can escape nicely, good space control and is stupid good at whiff punishing into a launcher with stand mk. My day 1 impression was he is an utility/team player. I think that assessment was correct. Don’t forget his running the clock ability.
he feels more technical, but there are ways to work around it. his rushdown isnt too bad jump mk can still be ambiguous.
at first I thought he was crap, but the more I play him and the less i play him like ssf4 bison more comfortable I am with him
I’m running Rolento and Bison on my team for now, I have got a good number of time outs when winning. The host automatically left the room after I took his Asuka/Hei team out. Kept trying to parry my s.MK so I just dashed in and toss her/slide across the screen. Actually, 2 host thought I lamed them out, so they left!
Also about Super art (charging up the scissors), have you guys have any luck faking it out or backdashing with it? I need to try this move out more.
What’s everyone using for AA options at the moment?
Air to Air fierce seems to be the best option at the moment for me if I can predict jump-ins. Cr fierce is good too now. Roundhouse seems to trade too much.
Any other options?
:eek: Target combo still gives you good options. It’s a shame it either does little damage for the one hit, or uses both hits but also uses another juggle point.
c.:hp: is something I’ve been trying to anti-air with as well. It’s not bad, but what I’m really interested in is Psycho Crusher anti-airs.
I think backdash c.:mp: works as a bootleg option. Backdashing on people’s jumpins is pretty cool, actually. I’ve never been able to do it in most other games.
I want to try to get a listing of Bison’s juggle potentials going so we can figure out different combos when we pick people out of the air (which is surprisingly often).
You guys are too obsessed with Anti Airs. Jumping in is pretty rewarding even for Bison in here. And I agree with the sentiment that pushing too many buttons sometimes will get you killed because of recovery. Jumping is just as scrubby but also effective if you’re using them for big combos and not jump roundhouse roundhouse sweep type of deal. There have been so many times I’ve been jumped at because I threw out one extra poke and it just barely touched them and I ate a huge combo.
I actually really like M. Bison in this game-- much more than I did in SF4. Far standing HP being special cancel-able gives him some great frame traps. His escapes are great, which is wonderful against the Tekken characters. He definitely lost a little bit of his free up-close pressure, but he can still compete very well in that department.
nj MK, nj FP, and cHP. Depending on spacing, you can still using sHK, but I really dont use it that often. His neutral jump attacks I listed are essential AA for Bison though
Thats like the only time you can use Skull Diver lol. And I have had relatively no problems with it. It moves a lot faster, has more range and maneuverability, and can chain into magic series -> launcher. I have to admit, I usually use Ex version though
why does L Knee press deals the most damage out of all Knee press versions?
Because it doesn’t start a juggle.
HK Scissors has a large window for a juggle so does the lease damage, MK has a shorter window so does more damage and LK doesn’t juggle at all so does most. Makes sense really.
What can Bison do against an opponent who has the life lead, walks backward into the corner, and crouch blocks while sitting on 2-3 meters? I’m not using him, just wondering if you guys have any solution to that kind of scenario. Seems to me like I can alpha counter chip moves like scissors and psycho, don’t have to care about footsie normals, and don’t really have to worry about getting thrown considering what throw range is like nowadays.
I don’t really know what characters without good high/low/command throw mixups or at least projectiles for chip do about this.
Call for help, I mean tag into someone who can do something about it lol.
I think that’s the idea most of us are struggling with at the moment. Very hard to open someone up if they’re, you know, not doing anything. You can’t scissor loop for chip … you can alpha counter pressure strings. Best bet is to bait counter, but even that’s a guessing game at best. You could probably get a dash/walk-up throw since he’s so fast, but then they could just roll out of the corner. :X
But it’s kinda like SF4 in that regard. Gotta get in that ass right off the bat, while they don’t have meter, and get some sort of life lead so that they don’t have the option of turtling up.
In this game the hitboxes are so weird and throw range is so bad that in some character matchups, if one character dashes into the opponent, he’s no longer in range for throw. Dashing into the opponent actually lands you OUTSIDE of throw range, you get closer if you just walk up. I dunno if Bison has that issue against any characters, but I’ve seen it happen against my Hugo and Gief from several characters now.
And yeah, in any case, a throw takes 3-4 seconds from start of throw until when the opponent gets up, and then you have to deal with his roll/stand/backdash mixup.
That sounds like a nightmare for grapples. Haven’t seen that happen for Bison although I usually walk up throw instead of dash up. Will have to test.
As far as I can tell at the moment, there’s almost nothing bison can do to open up a turtle time waster. Maybe a walk up throw/frame trap mixup but with the roll out of the corner for free you still have to work really, really hard to get big damage. I’m afraid at this stage, this is the best option we have: