Yeah I considered him a victim of the “Doomsday Syndrome” a character created to do a specific thing (Beat/kill/fuck up a hero in some way) then when said hero/group returns, loses their own existence. The difference being Prometheus had a well done history and was written as very sadistic and cool, and I enjoyed the story immensely. Then yeah Hush makes him his bitch, and things go down hill…
I hope they do the Imposter route, I don’t care, the shit works for Dr. Doom it can help one of my favorite villains.
Tim Drake who Morrison had lose to Damian or Tim Drake who Morrison did not give a turn as Batman in issue 666?
I’m not saying that Morrison dislikes Tim Drake because he’s never said anything like that but he never really writes Drake as being a Kung Fu Master. Maybe he’d make him lose to Damian again.
Yeah I know Drake won the rematch during the Ressurection of Ra’s but that was another issue not written by Morrison. :looney:
Well writers have their favorites I guess. Wouldn’t mind seeing the above but I don’t think Morrison would touch that plot honestly.
How would Grayson fare against Shiva, Prometheus, and the like? While he was trained by Batman, I always considered his combat skills inferior but his acrobatics and sense of movement superior to Bruce.
Would be an interesting arc for sure, just to see how Grayson handles it and see if Damien can whip some ass, though yeah Morrison has some Drake issues, no idea why.
According to the DC Encyclopedia, Grayson is supposed to be one of the best hand to hand fighters after Bruce (we are not talking Karate Kid who is crazy broken of course and 100s of years off). DG was trained by Bruce after all and still has more experience than Tim. He’s just rarely written that way for whatever reason. Of course now that he is wearing a Batman costume and not a Nightwing one his fighting skills are coming to the surface because DC Editorial basically had a problem with his wardrobe. :wasted:
Though I agree that he probably leans more on acrobatics then he does on Martial Arts. At least DC stuck to their guns with him being that world’s greatest acrobat. Or Winick would have to be aware of this fact to contradict it. SHHH…
Lol, true enough, we should keep it on the down low. But I prefer his high flying, very flexible style of fighting and would like to see it more represented while wearing the Bat costume. I’m sure it’s a lot heavier but yeah, Batman looks cool when he is doing dynamic actions.
Hmm, I should go find the old Nightwing comic and read it through, see just what he was like in his own series.
So a question for everyone: How long do you think Grayson will remain as Batman?
With all the deaths and comebacks, you can’t really tell in this era of comics. Hell I was perfectly fine with Bucky being Captain America after my initial fanboy-ism died down, but you saw how well that worked out. I do hope they keep Bruce out of the game for a while, other than Blackest Night, just to give Grayson some more character growth and show his potential. DC is usually better about character replacements, so he should be stable for a good while.
I will say a year before stuff about Bruce coming back starts rumbling.
Me I want Bruce to come back as Batman Beyond’s old man Bruce Wayne for a few years and manage DG. Yeah Bruce will be back in 2011 when the next movie drops. Bet it!
I agree with Sano, I really wish that they’d stick with Grayson as Batman for a while, I feel there’s more story potential there, its like when Bruce comes back, do we just get Nightwing back? Do we get a new character? DG would have to be pretty broken after spending some time in the shoes of Batman which would go against editorial’s problem with him being Nightwing.
Also I think Grayson should do well against Shiva, after all when Black Canary fought those 7 brothers in Birds of Prey(all seven were supposed to be as good as Shiva if I remember correctly), she was wishing for Nightwing to be fighting along side her after Huntress and Connor Hawke got owned something fierce.
Nothing about the quality of the book, as I love it, but even with Bucky being a fantastic Captain America Marvel saw fit to bring Steve back, which I thought was a bad move really.
Who knows, it might not be a permanent thing, but it still annoys me Marvel makes a few good strides forward then a million little steps back in character development. Not like DC is any better, but most of their replacement heroes stick.
So what problem did DC have with the Nightwing persona anyways? I’m usually out of the loop with behind the scenes drama, unless it involves my most hated of foes, Bendis.
The only one who has been vocal about it is DiDio but from what others have said in interviews he is not alone. (I assume this also includes Levitz and others). Waid, Rucka and Johns would’ve killed to write Nightwing’s book and Waid himself has said there’s a faction within DC Editorial that has physically prevented all of them from touching the book. If you’ll notice whenever these 3 have gotten their hands on Nightwing in other / their own books he’s really great. Not to take away from Tomasi who wound up having a great run on NW.
What DiDio has said is that he does not ‘get’ him. He’s part Batman, part inspired by the Kryptonian hero Nightwing so he doesn’t get him. That is why he wanted to kill him 2 Crisis’ ago. At the end no one involved could go through with it. Which is why DG didn’t die back then.
Then of course there’s the usual ‘Alex Ross’ type of sentiment. “I grew up with DG as Robin and not as Nightwing.” Alex Ross tends to refuse to ever draw NW which is why he created Red Robin in Kingdom Come. He also won’t draw any GL that is not Hal or black suit Spider-Man. He did draw the DCAU variant of NW once, oh he’ll draw anyone if you pay him enough. He actually expressed “WE WIN!” when Hal came back as GL. :rolleyes: Basically people didn’t grow up with Nightwing, they don’t like them. This faction does want DG to stay Robin forever or to just forget about him (kill him…) and focus on Tim Drake. And make Tim Drake as much as Dick Grayson as they can get away with, but moving on…
There’s always a faction of people who want comics to be EXACTLY the way they were when they read the books umpteen years ago and will not accept any real changes. Even Paul Dini has gone out of way with outrageous plots to get Barbara Gordon out of her wheelchair so she can be Batgirl again! I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you the lengths Joe Quesada has done to make Spider-Man single again. :looney:
And of course there are fans who always want things back the way they were. This throws me sometimes. Have you read every single story where Batman was Bruce Wayne? Is there something physically preventing you from reading back issues or TPBs? Does DG being Batman stop you from watching Brave And The Bold or the next Christian Bale movie? You can’t put Batman The Animated Series in your DVD player anymore? No it has to be the same way it was in a comic that’s on the stands right this second. Even though everyone knows DC will NEVER get rid of Clark Kent, Diana or Bruce Wayne for long. Look at their history, geez… Heaven forbid you go go read a back issue or go to the back bins to get your Bruce Wayne fix on. OH NOOS…
Barry being gone and Wally West being a replacement seemed like the one change almost everyone was on the same page on. Well I’m sure Alex Ross did a little happy dance when Barry came back… :wasted:
From what Sano wrote…there sure does seem to be a strong childish side to these Comic Book people.
…but I think Alex Ross got over his emgrabo hadn’t he?
I haven’t read any interviews of him in years so I honestly have no idea. Course no DG Nightwing, Red Robin’s in DC proper, Hal’s a Green Lantern, Barry is Flash… the Spider-Man Back in Black event is over… Is there anything out there that can piss him off? Wait don’t answer that. Can’t… read about Alex Ross… getting upset about what happened to Marvin and Wendy in Teen Titans… I just can’t… :clown:
Like I said he will draw anyone if you pay him enough. By choice (say, if you ask him to draw a bunch of DC characters like the DC Encyclopedia cover or if he is somewhat involved in the story like Kingdom Come or Earth X) there are certain characters he will not go near (again, I don’t know if he’s still that way). Barry and Wally in costume look more or less the same, I think that character is not a big problem for him. He did draw Kyle before. I don’t remember what the occasion was.
Yeah well, I don’t understand that. I like both the older comics and the newer stuff, and I prefer change. What book have you read where they painstakingly changed and evolved a character over time, only to go “Whoops, better go back to square one.” I only get this shit in comics, though that could be because I am picky about my novel material.
Just bothersome, and when I eventually become a comic writer, one thing I will fight against. So don’t expect me to write for Marvel or DC all that much if they give me crap over it (Or even accept me in the first place). Nightwing I thought was a great step in the right direction for Dick, because he honestly just grew stale in the Robin role, and frankly he was to old to be running around in that get-up. Getting out of Batman’s shadow involves him making something new, while his first costume was just…terrible, his revamp suit when DG got his own title was amazing, and I loved the look.
Meh, all these comic changes are just annoying. Oh noes, Aunt May is still alive, Peter isn’t married, and no one again knows who he is. Steve Rogers decided being dead was to hard, and has come back to a Marvel universe that he will be irrelevant in. Then we all know Bruce will come back eventually and tell DG to GTFO politely, and it’s back to him going down a bit.
Who knows, he might stick, but I see a lot of pissants whining about it for a while.
What sucks about this new Batman storyline is that people act like Dick Grayson hasn’t done this before. He’s already played the Batman replacement role in Batman: Prodigal. DC likes to act like it never happened but I know the truth.
That’s part of the deal when it comes to corporate-owned comics. You can’t change them too much or else people (as in, the casual guy off the street who’s never been in a comic book shop and only watches movies based on comics) won’t recognize them. It’s always been about the illusion of change, or maybe selective continuity. If you get too serious about watching characters evolve and change and grow, at some point it is just gonna point back to the fact that some of these characters are fifty years old and haven’t aged more than five or six years.
And even when writers do make some sort of change to these characters, some other writer down the line is just going to change it back. That’s just the way things are. I think you just gotta accept it or read something else. You’ll go insane if you get personally offended that Spider-Man’s marriage was changed due to Mephisto - you don’t wanna turn into one of those crazy dudes who uses way too many emoticons! :looney: :looney: Haha, where you at, Sano?! :rock::rock::rock::rock::rock:
Nah you want to be like Zephyranthes who for the life of me I can’t figure out why he still reads superhero comics. Man you need to go straight to the indy section whenever you set foot in a store and stay there. Just for you! :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney: :looney:
Nah, just bugs me is all. I enjoy the stories as is, but it’s annoying to see things go back to square one after so long. Especially with the damn events they do to “Changes things forever” then it’s irrelevant after the incident in question lol.
Prodigal was cool, I remember reading that fondly. Anywho /rant from me, I am done with my bitching for the month. Until next time, true believers.
One of my favorite announcements at SDCC this year!
"Sterling Gates has written the four-part World’s Finest miniseries, which will start in October. The story will explore the relationship between Dick Grayson and Clark Kent (or, as he is now, Commander El of New Krypton) in light of all the massive changes Batman and Superman have seen over the past year."
Source and lots of info on DC’s Bat related titles -
