Damn CFJ was a terrible game.The first game I’ve ever brought back to the shop the next day.
Bloody Roar 3 was the shit!!!
First of all, it as a 2d drought not a 3d drought. All the major 3d games went comparatively well (along with some games that converted to 3d, ala MK). I hadn’t thought to describe it that way until just now >>
Secondly, saying there wasn’t a dropoff in SNK games is just intensely wrong. I actually worked out the number of games before and after the drought started, and there’s no comparison.
I was thinking though, was the prevalence of anime-style comboriffic games a contributor to or an effect of the drought?No. I don’t agree with you. especially when you say retarded shit like:
“*You used to need to make 10 good “lucky” guesses in a row to make a comeback”
*I don’t think ANYONE who has ever played an old street fighter game thinks that it ever took anything more than 2-3 right guesses to win a match. SF4 certainly takes a lot more than ‘1 guess’ too.
I outlined EVERY popular/competitive street fighter game in my previous post. 3s has high damage from just simple shit such as low forward xx super, which puts you into a good situation that lets you make them guess and potentially combo into super again to win the round. ST has throws that do 33%, supers that can’t be blocked on reaction and do 60% life and those heavily damaging throws can’t be teched if they’ll kill you. A2, if you’re getting beat up you get meter. If you see someone stand up or do a standing normal, you can hit them with a Valle and win the round just off of that. A3? V-Ism. CVS2? DAMAGE. No seriously, the heavy fucking damage off of just basic shenanigans and hit-confirmable practically-invincible normals into super in that game made it a turtle/footsie game just based on the fact that no skilled player ever wanted to take a fucking risk. It stayed that way for-fucking-ever until we figured out RC and started applying it in matches.
The comeback factor in the old games was JUST as high if not HIGHER than sf4, even with the ultra. It just took more effort. That’s a legitimate complaint. Not “it takes way too few guesses in SF4 to make a comeback.” That’s just fucking “I talk about old games but never actually played them” talk. That’s what I’m calling you out on.
Also, GG:AC Eddie TOD combos are fucking plenty practical in match. Maybe I’ve just played against better players than you.
But you just answered it yourself with
"the only way to make a comeback is the fucking forced comeback mechanic"
When you say “I don’t think ANYONE who has ever played an old street fighter game thinks that it ever took anything more than 2-3 right guesses to win a match.” it sounds like matches ALWAYS end with 2-3 guesses, but usually matches take much more guess work because those guesses are risky. So you see fireball wars more than blatant deep jump-in attempts trying to go for the biggest damage.
Again you bring games I didn’t even mention (since when was I defending every title Capcom has ever released?), and take specific ST rules out of their context. While the throw LOOPS are a silly thing and I never claimed otherwise, the normal throws weren’t and even if they did a lot of damage you need to analyze it, like I said, in conjunction with the rest of the rules of the game, which include pretty high damage for everything else too, hit stun and block stun, pushback, chip damage, safe on block jab dragon punches, tools against fireballs etc. etc.
A throw dealing a ton of damage doesn’t sound right in a vacuum, but we are talking about a game where fireball zoning and good normals are effective just as much.
Again, high damage is not something inherently for comebacks by itself. You have access to all those tools when you have full life as well. When you make a comeback then, you use the exact same things that could be used against you to get you to low life in the first place. While in SF4, just like you said yourself, for getting beaten you are rewarded with MORE tools, and the damage is too low when not using those new tools. So the one with the lead had to earn it with low damage options , and now you have the opportunity to even it up with a high damage option. That’s why it’s a factor that rewards the losing player, and not both players equally like high damage.
Thanks for yet another personal attack while instead you could just post the notation for those plenty TODs and explain how their starter is practical in a high level match.
Wow. Is it weird that this is almost exactly what I think of tataki as well? I don’t even disagree with everything he has ever said either, but I can’t be on the side of someone who is ignorant as shit.
[/quote]
MY BAD BRO I HAD NO IDEA THAT SF2, 3S, A2, A3 and CVS2 DIDNT COUNT AS ‘SF GAMES’.
MY BAD.
BY THE WAY, BRO. I MENTIONED EVERY SF GAME SO YOU WOULDN’T HAVE A FUCKING EXCUSE AS TO ‘BUT THIS GAME ISN’T LIKE THAT’.
BY THE WAY, YOU’RE WELCOME FOR THE PERSONAL ATTACK… DON’T EVEN BOTHER CALLING AD HOMINEM BECAUSE I NEVER INTENDED ON DEBATING YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Name. one. SF. Game. Where. It. takes. 10. guesses. to. make. a. comeback.
You can’t. Because it doesn’t exist. Successful guesses pay off huge in these games and they always have.
EDIT: And why the fuck would I bother looking up notation for a GG character I don’t even play? I’m a fucking Sol player. I’m saying I’ve seen Eddie TOD combos in real matches before. They WERE a factor in high level GG play.
You chumps ruining a good thread >:[
I see this shit is getting nowhere, and while I bothered to respond to every little shitty claim you posted, you keep coming back to one statement which I can easily rephrase since you completely missed the point of it by taking it so literally, while I was just trying to be descriptive on the difference between making a real comeback with the same regular tools, than with making a comeback with a mechanic that was built especially for it. I may phrased it wrong initially but it’s clear that you don’t even care what I meant by it, and you ignore when I’m trying to explain it.
Frankly the only reason you post any arguments at all is to attack ME personally, which is why you went into a childish tantrum with “wah wah youtube channel wah wah brony wah movie maker.”
I’m always open for a discussion with people who really want to discuss. With you however I’ll stop wasting my time. Have fun. <3
I had no intention of debating or discussing shit with you, I just wanted to call you out on your bullshit. Which I did. Mission comprete.
The fact that you seem to think I want to debate with you is some sort of delusion on your part. I don’t. Why the fuck would I want to debate with someone who has a fucking track record for knowing absolutely nothing about what they’re talking about? That’s not a very logical move on my part.
dude, you are like arguing in massively, ludicrously bad faith. It’s kind of agonizing to watch you twist and turn and dodge around to get around the fact that you just screwed up.
Learn my hard lesson, don’t say shit that’s just wrong, because even if its beside the point your ass is still gonna get called on it. If you DO get called on it, just man up, admit your mistake, and come at your point from another direction, if you think in good faith its still valid.
lol, the irony on this post
I hate making it about me, but part of the reason I posted that way was because I just had to apologize to Master Chibi about something… and did.
Just like admitting that there were actually far more engine changes in WW>HF than I had thought.
Not “You just misunderstand and you hate me and you’re the dummy who started insulting people dummy!”
So hecatom what do you think about the drought? It might seem the opposite to you, because thats when the games you seem to like really started being made 
I’m unsure as to why the throwing-tataki discussion went so long while my post which said the same +other stuff was completely ignored ;_;
Then again, seeing how tataki tries to dodge every single statement instead of just admitting he’s talking bullshit kind of saved me some otherwise wasted time.
my fighting game scene was never sf dependadnt, so the drought was never real for us
here in my country the fgs played are beyond the scope of the capcom games (thankfully) our toutnaments were always around the number of 150
in fact the release of sf4 did nothing to the scene because many of our players ddidnt have a ps3 or a xbox for a long time, not to mention that not many liked it, so many didnt bother playing it, to the point that there is barely sf4 tournamnets meanwhile for other games there have been a lot with a lot of hype and a lot of entrants (not evo level of course)
the players of the different games overlap, so you have mvc2 players playing gg, tekken, mv3, mk9, bb, etc
the only games that no ones play are ah, lol, that its why that i give up in trying o make an scene for it after ah2, and BF since not many know about it
as i said, the drought only existed for the capcom game fans (wich it seems to be the case for usa mostly), the fighting games fans were doing just fine
now if you ask me what games do get more participants here, the numbers that we want to get, just ask for that Fifa, or that Pro Evolution (im a tournament player of them too)
so followup question: Did you play much in the '90s? I keep seeing people say there was no drought or it was just for capcom games, and I’m trying to figure out if they knew what it was like before.
One of the things I’ve noticed is that the drought coincided with the rise of ‘anime games’ (I know people hate that term, but its handy), and I’m trying to figure out the connection, if there actually was one.
in the old 90 i played a lot in arcades but not really as a tournament player (plus i was 10 years old by 1992) until KI dropped, yes i was a KI tournament player, i was friend of the son of the person who brought all the KI arcade machines to my city so i always went to his house to play for free, and before the game got released on the arcade centers
by the time that the game was released he and me were the dominant players for the many tournaments
an interesting thing, is that the fg scene here became strongger in the 2000’s, the 90’s werent so great for us since even when we had fgs on the arcade centers, there werent too much players for the fact that almost all the actual scene were kis by the time, and the old scene was barely existent, video games in general became popular with my generation
btw every grocer’s shop of the suburbs had an arcade machine and luckly many of them had a fg, usually sf2 or mk2, but other times other less known like the TNMT or the Power Rangers so for evey suburb you had a local amall scene for the fighting game that were represented there, in the case of the suburb were i grown up the park had an arcade center that the fathers of the community created for their sons, yes like you heard
in the 90s the fact that not many people did have consoles and more importantly good ports of the games made the scene smaller in comparasion, from around 2001 to 2006 the arcade scene was really strong for us here, but it started to die when the arcade operators didnt want to invest in getting the new games that were released
See that’s interesting, your arcade experience is the exact opposite of my experience (and a few others), somebody else said it was really a US slump, and that’s sounding more and more accurate.
I mean the sheer number of games produced dropped off insanely, but a lot of those games weren’t really worth thinking of anyways, most of the ones outside the big companies really weren’t any good.
the only connection that i see is that this new school fighting games werent made by capcom and didnt have sf or marvel in the name tbh, here in my country a lot of people who are not near to be tournament players enjoy them to dead, just one example, in my university there were a lot of people playing games like GG, SF, Marvel, MB, Jojo, etc between classes, and many of them didnt knew how to play said games, but had a blast with them
marvel its pretty much an lolanimu fighting game since it has a lot in common with what are present on these new school fighting games, it gets lucky because it has the marvel name in the logo, and its made by capcom, wich not necesarily means that the game would be popular though, look at rival school or the VS series
im not gonna lie, in the 90 everyone was producing a fg it seems, but not many are remembered; there are some gems though that deserve sme love, there are some wird games that i played back in the day that were mad fun
right now the number of FG that are produced are not near to the level that someone should worry, imo having options is always good; though for the players that like something in the vein of sf is quite difficult right now, specially if they arent interested to try something that is not made by capcom, there are options but i see them ignored, BF deserves way more love imo
I think its the minimum player pool problem really, unless you’re lucky enough to be in one of the places with a really strong established scenes, its basically impossible to find people to play for a game that doesn’t have a ton of mainstream love.
So even if people like the design and have a ton of fun with the game, they give up on it because you can only play alone so long.
Which to me is one of the key elements of the drought, all of a sudden it was impossible to find people to play with.
wich its totally true, i enjoy ah and love BF, but without a player base i simply dont play them, online play is not an option for me, not because the lag (but matters of course), its because i love having people around while playing the games, i came from a time where playing with people around was hype
hell is the same reason why i dont play fps and rts anymore, i loved having lan parties for rts’s and fps’s, now playing oline, alone at my home doesnt cut it for me, it doesnt matter that there are a lot of players to play with, there is no real human interaction 
btw another thing that it came to my mind is that by the time where the fgs started to loss their steam, the fps started t rise and take force, just look it, fps are strong on usa, and by the time were fgs and arcades started to deacy in popularity to say it in some way, the pc gaming and the fps started to rise, not to mention that the netplay technology started to being developed there expanding the possibilities, it was around the same period of time, its an interesting “coincidence”