A top player that DIDN’T want to play Gouken. He said himself that he hated Gouken and was only playing because of the poll.
Also he didn’t mean to teach something about him specifically, he entered the forum and called everybody a scrub. Some pretended that he wasn’t talking to them but whatever. If he was actually trying to learn him and play him I’d respect that.
I won’t suck up because he is known.
lol. “Yes, matey! We are pleased now that a nobody has proclaimed our character to be not so bad”
The only time i’ve asked for more from the old geezer is when they announced 2012 and there was a blank slate.
I voiced my opinions on Kongo and LP.Palm.
I think that some people want him to play Gouken so they/he gets validated in being a not up to par character.(they’re opinion)
Other want him to play hoping for new techniques and have something to aspire to. (Expecting him to be good just because it’s ‘FlashMetroid’)
On the other hand, people think he hates the character and will just bad mouth him as he goes on. (although he said the character is not bad or something earlier in this thread)
I think some people are worried that he wont be a competent as some of the Gouken players are here, (It’s alot to expect he will be from 1 week)
Overall i think the community is just divided.
I, myself, dont know what to think. I’ve never been one to know about ‘tiers’.
I’ve gotten to 3300PP with him and am stuck there. Viper Goomba has something like 4-5k PP.
It is possible to win, and consistently at high level.
But then ‘tournament level play’ comes in. I can’t comment on that what so ever.
I fought against a Dan the other day that had 4k PP i think :S
I wondered how he got so much, is it the player or the character?
I lost, mainly do to the repeated air kick thing he does & dash.
I’ll stop now 
lol Cris who says I didn’t want to play gouken because he was bad? I don’t like Yun/Yang/Fei Long either are they bad aswell then? pro logic bro maybe I didn’t want Gouken to win because hes a boring ass character…that is a possibility no? anyway itll be on today at 3
Actually you didn’t say he was bad. You said you hated him…lol…
This is totally personal taste. For example, I do so much better with other characters, I just insist on him because I find him the most fun to play. Go figure…
I hope that changes after a while, or at least you give us a new point of view that we can use to keep improving.
Todays Top Story
FlashMetroid comments to himself: “Gouken is so Broken” After Discovering he could slide through fireballs.
More news as it develops
I watch another day, when you’ve warmed up to him and his moves and your opponents dont sit there.
I mean a bison who lets you: poke him, walk up and poke him and walk up and grab without a single cr.lk!? Not in a month of sundays!
(Not your fault i know)
Look forward to it, hope your information is realiable in the chat.
It’s weird, haha, now i think about it, people are just throwing facts and combo’s at him/you in the chat.
Good shit FlashMetroid!
Dammit i missed it was it good???
It was alright. He didn’t really take much time in Training to learn the basics, just jumped right into matches after a few minutes. I would like to see him after a few days of playing and having all the fundamentals and tricks down.
However, it was interesting to see him just walk up and st.cl.MP a lot, to try and counter hit people. A couple times he would just stutter tap the st.cl.MP like it was a jab.
I was impressed. He pretty much hopped in cold and won the majority of his matches. It was cool watching him apply the combo and tips messaged to him on the fly.
Yeah I forgot about this. When he saw stuff people were linking or telling him, a lot of it he did not know about. His reaction was all “whaaaaa” and “i had no idea”. He didn’t know Senkugoshoha went through fireballs…kinda makes you think how much “pros” really know about Gouken.
Besides the times he could have gotten the KO if he didn’t go for the st mp > sweep link instead of an ex palm combo he did well. He was loving that cross up mk, mp, sweep. It made me realize I should use it more often. I’d like to see him after a couple of weeks of practice when he wouldn’t be adding the mp when it’s not needed in the combos. He surprised me for sure. Didn’t have any amazing discoveries but he is obviously a solid player to just pick him up like that.
Um, the dude is a pro player. More than solid. He wasn’t winning with Gouken knowledge, he was winning with solid fundamentals and cause the people he was playing refused to block. He picked up any knowledge tossed his way super quick though and applied it in the game.
As for not needing mp, he is always going to use mp, he is hit confirming with it. I think he was mp > sweeping way too much as he could have killed lots of people in the corner by doing EX palm instead but whatever. Everyone thinks you need jabs for a hit confirm for Gouken and you don’t.
For the record he had 0 discoveries. Everything was told to him, nothing new came out of it as was expected.
I have a question for you.
On the stream when someone asked you if you liked Gouken now (or something to that effect) you replied no, he was still boring. You said you felt like you weren’t doing anything but waiting for an opening and then punishing for half life.
Do you think this is viable against good opponents, tournament level opponents? Your natural reactions and solid understanding of the general game (combined with the opposite in your opponents) is what really allowed you to pulp those dudes on PC.
You get to “do stuff” with other characters, which imo, equates to you saying, you have ways to open people up, to force them into mistakes. Gouken is more of a sit and wait and punish mistakes type character. Verse a tournament level player you are not going to have someone eat an EX tatsu three times in a row by jumping. You are not going to be getting very many anti-air fireballs past the first game in a set.
You were talking an awful lot in this thread about how Gouken is good, but it was clear from the stream you had no idea about anything when it came to Gouken. So I’m curious on your opinion now that you have learned some stuff and if you still feel the same way as before.
You were amazed to learn Gouken is invincible during his dashing portion of his palm, that it could go through fireballs, but when you played against Akuma and tried to go through a fireball at mid range on reaction you saw just how slow palm was as the Akuma was able to block it since the active frames came from proximity and not because he travelled max distance (this is exactly why I told you to dash MP palm from full screen as opposed to HP palm from full screen. MP palm will be active by the time he gets across the screen as opposed to HP palm activating WHEN he gets across the screen).
I guess my question is, at a tournament level, where people understand the game, how do you see Gouken now that you have learned some stuff about him? How would you open up a tournament player in order to apply his max damage? Constant repeated walk up cl.st.mp or frame traps that always start with cl.st.mp is doing to get you invincible move FADC ULtraed at some point.
Give us your thoughts.
Umm I had a good idea of Goukens general game just because I didn’t know the specifics of the character doesn’t mean anything. I mained Makoto, Viper, Gief my entire SF4 career obviously going through fireballs is irrelevant to me so its not a big deal that I didn’t know that. Anyone who watched the stream and says “Oh he didn’t do anything all he did was blah blah blah nothing new” is an idiot I am not gonna find some game breaking strategy with characters that’s not what SF4 or my project was about. Yesterday I learned a lot in the 3 hours I played him hes definitely way better than I expected I definitely think hes upper mid tier for sure now one of the best characters after the gap of the clearly dominant characters in the game(Makoto, Viper, Sagat, Yun, Yang, Fei, Seth, Akuma).
The bottom line is the situation here is the same thing as every other character forum on SRK “I am losing and I am obviously good at my character so the character must be bad” people never blame themselves for their problems its always the character its pretty ridiculous. I don’t really understand how you can think that fireballs become irrelevant after the first set what is the guy gonna do just delete them from the game? the fireball has a ridiculous recovery essentially hes a shoto version of guile. I can see why Infiltration put him so high on his tier list and spoke highly of the character at SB definitely hella underrated I can’t believe that people don’t play this character more hes so dumb.
- Ridiculous damage output
- High counter on wake up to deal with normally un reversable safe jumps(I was loving this last night you don’t realize how annoying it is to get unblockabled to death all day)
- Easily the 2nd(maybe 3rd) best fireball in the game
- 3 solid ass normals (close strong, sweep, crouching fierce)
- Average life, walkspeed, throw range
- Really good dash
- A meterless way to deal with projectiles
The only cons I thought the character had were
- Can’t do defensive back throw to throw your opponent into the corner when you are in the corner
- Crouching short is weird its not a normal classic short it like goes over crouching opponent or something so crouch teching is meh
- Lacks a super reliable AA unless he has meter(but I think that was just because of my lack of knowledge)
I don’t think the character is that boring anymore who knows I might look into him
Any more games today? Or was it just a one day thing.
Obviously. I was actually more interested in the method you would use to learn a new character. Really just turned into you fighting people, which is fine, that’s where you learn to play the character. I guess I was sort of expecting something else, though I can’t quite describe it.
Well, I’m not one of the people who complains about how bad my character is, but I am familiar with his shortcomings. besides, that’s not what I wanted to discuss. That avenue of discussion just leads to he said/she said opinions AKA everything prior to this response in this thread.
Again, you were playing against people who you could beat with your general reflexes and excellent understanding of how SF in general is played. For instance, the Guy you played did not abuse the shit out of run stop on you where you have very limited answers to his 3 frame c.lk coming off that 'stop" since EX tatsu will whiff and the rest of your normals are too slow to deal with it. You didn’t get an EX run where you can’t use an EX fireball to stop him or EX tatsu cause if he slides you will again whiff and go for a wild ride, so it is very hard to keep a knowledgeable Guy player out. The Akumas you played never vortexed you, and by vortex I just mean palm/throw.
As for his fireballs, yes they have great recovery, but they have bad startup. When you play against someone with your reflexes who can EX green hand or pull out an Ultra like Abel U1 or blanka slide under on reaction you’ll think slightly less of them.
Why do I think air fireballs are useless after game 1? Because after a good player realizes you are going to throw them he will let you thrown them and then take that real estate in front of you for free. People don’t play Gouken so they will often jump at first, getting hit by air fireballs. Someone who adapts easily and realizes he has no 2 hit fireball outside of an 80+ charge will begin to focus dash up and in on you, both through your normal ones and the ones sailing over their head.
Agree with damage output.
If you were using high counter on wakeup, it wasn’t a traditional safe jump. High counter has an incredibly slim activation box and often you will get counter hit because the opponents hitbox on their jump attack, although airborne, will hit you below the activation box. You really do have to choose between MP and HP counter on air attacks. Most crossups need to be countered with mp.
I’d say Akuma, Sagat, and Guile all beat Gouken handily in the fireball game. The lack of a two hit fireball sans an 80+ frame charge is a real detriment. Akuma has to be considered the king of fireballs with multi hitting balls, angled downwards air fireballs, and normal balls.
cl.st.mp and sweep are better than solid. c.hp is solid but also -4 on hit, you absolutely must cancel it. Good anti-air though. Try to use st.mp, st.mk, c.lk and st.hp as well if you continue on. st.hp and st.mp in particular have really good hitboxes out in front of the hurtbox.
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Crouching short is the one that looks like a shoto cr.forward. cr.forward is the one that angles up. You should crouch tech with c.forward as it is 4 frames as opposed to c.short which is 5 frames.
c.forward will handle anything that c.hp can’t in terms of normal AA’s. For neutral jumpers in front of you use close standing roundhouse, it’s like the able close st. fierce in terms of use, but looks just like Ryu close standing roundhouse in sf2. 4 frame startup.
Anyway, I think it would be cool if you kept on with him even as a tertiary and then tested him out against competent people and then posted your thoughts.
EDIT: One other thing, I’m aware of unblockables and how annoying it can be. I’m also aware that all it takes is one empty counter to get Ultraed as well. It gives you an out that other characters don’t have for sure though. Blanka has a piss easy one he can do off of backthrow.