So besides the few character specific movements(which are in other 3D fighters however the timing and skill involved vary) it’s pretty standard fare. I’m not that into SC so I won’t speak for it, but a lot of the terms you’ve used are very common in VF and even DOA. I’d switch launch properties with weight system.
I have yet to see an explanation that makes Tekken so inaccessible over other fighters. Is buffering qc motion with sidestep enough to make the difference? I’;; play around with these motions myself, but I’d like to hear more. Guess I’ll hit TZ up and see what I’m missing.
Yep. Dudes memorizing 10 strings and they’ve “mastered” the character.
For that bitch you’re on your own. You might need to hit up TZ or YouTube the vid of her moves and combos. I never was a Law player, however I do know that you have to kind of “re-learn” him since he has been sort of revamped. It’s probably not as drastic as Bruce but you should hit up some vids.
You still don’t get it. No one’s saying the game is inaccessible. And you’re still looking for some unique strategy or tactic to validate your definition of depth. The curve isn’t in the execution. On competitive level you have to know each of the characters, their moves, strings, so you can defend, react, punish accordingly. If you choose not to learn frames you at least have to have some sense of how quick moves or strings are. This also ties into the spacing and movement. Tracking moves, you have to know which way you can sidestep to avoid the attack and whether shit is low, mid, high. You will not be able to naturally react to stuff, like in other fgs. Especially within most strings. That’s why you have to STUDY it so you’ll know, and it may be a set-up or string/move that’s 50/50 but at least you got a chance. All this, and not even mentioning all the mind games and shenanigans.
Everybody thinks playing a game is simply learning moves. :lol:
You’re still oversimplifying it though. “Very common in 3D games such as VF” makes about as much sense as saying that “lighting fast cross-over dribbles and shoulder fakes are very common for point guards in the NBA, however the timing and skill involved may vary.”
You’re literally saying: The difference between somebody like say Kobe or Wade against a random 6-ppg ave point guard in the NBA is “timing and skill”.
No one’s saying that Tekken is inaccessible per se. But calling it “simple” compared to VF is untrue.
You can’t really switch launch properties with a weight system either. You’re saying “if I launch a fat guy like Taka in VF, I only have these combos”. However, Taka’s weight is a constant factor regardless of who he’s up against. (Everybody’s combos are affected when they play Taka).
It’s the opposite in Tekken, where the thinking is more “if this guy launches me, he has X options and A oki options if I’m launched this way, and Y plus B or C oki options if I’m launched this way” And X and Y vary if the character is a big or a normal. And since each character has their own set of launch properties (and subsequent combos), it’s not just the fat guy vs the little guys, it’s literally A char vs B char and B char’s size.
To give a basic example: Kaz’s ff+2 launches opponents face down, head toward. The opposite of his EWGF (face up, feet toward). Depending on the move you do after the ff+2 launcher, an opponent can “spin” in the air, with them ending up in face up, head toward position; or they can remain the same (face down, head toward); or you can do a move which “pinwheels” (for lack of a better term) them - either into a pick up move (hellsweep), from/or into a wall for a wall splat combo.
If your opp is against a wall, you can also do ff+2 to launch them face down, head toward, then do a move that spins them into face up, head toward, so that when they hit the wall for a wall splat, they’re BT (back turned), which affects their ability to defend, such as their oki options (face up, head toward is generally a bad position to be in).
This also differs if you’re playing a big like Marduk or Kuma, where their size becomes a factor.
This is basic Kaz stuff too. Not even discussing WD cancels into twin pistons/tsunamis/hell sweeps/ewgf’s.
However, in both games (VF and Tekken), the axis you and your opponent are on can affect which combos/moves are possible/not possible.
Great. What does YOUR character have that can punish a blocked Miguel hopkick.
Now flip the situation: You’re the Miguel player. What does your opponent have that can punish your -14 blocked hopkick?
That’s 40 characters worth of awareness you should know, just for one of your moves - what about all your other bread and butter moves? What about their moves? What do they have that are unsafe against whatever Miguel may have.
That’s just frames on their own. A character may have a -32 move, but the blockstun is so fierce, that the -32 move is actually safe, BUT because of the way the move works, it’s ss-able to the right.
That’s the kind of thinking in Tekken that you need to know in order to get past intermediate and onto advanced. You only get to expert when you can do all the high level execution required to maximize your character (such as wave dash cancels, etc.) flawlessly, because then you have to start thinking high level strats.
Believe me, there is a HUGE difference between playing a Kaz player that can EWGF, and a Kaz player that has flawless wd cancel skills alone. Expert players are the latter + experience + smarts.
Flymike: Thats cool…I’ll go check youtube then. As for Law, yeah it is a revamp, but nothing TOO drastic, provided you’ve played with him long enough to NOT rely on his slightly mixable 10 hits and nothing else (Then again, I’m only Intermediate, based on the current discussion…don’t know too many people that really PLAY Tekken anymore since I left Houston, and those that do are WAY THE FUCK better than I am.)
New 12 frame b+1,2 nc, forces crouch on hit, does a chunk of damage. Nice compliment to his shoulder for punishment and it bounds.
Sick wall mixups. All 3 hits of Demo man hit. Qcb+2 safe mid that splats and two throws that splat.
the old shitty d/b+2 has been replaced with a new uppercut that is useful in juggles. You know how ws+2 flips them over? That’ll reflip them back for easier juggles.
Only problem is his d+1 lost range and holding it to go FC is slow. d+1 was god in dr.
Until you’ve attained that level or skill, or finally observed it through thousands of matches you just watch(which is nigh impossible IMHO) no one really can get it.
So, what makes VF much more technical and deeper than DOA while they are based on the same game-engine incorporating almost everything from same properties to same priorities and even frame-data (to a certain extent)?
Answer
Spoiler
Available defensive/offensive options and balance amongst them.
The exact same answer is applicable to Tekken. While knowing move-properties and frame-data is not so uncommon, available offensive and defensive options (and their balance) greatly differ. And Tekken is one of the games excelling in this category, much similar to VF. Refer to Dilly’s post for some basic insight on oki and movement options.
Ok, I’ll put it to you in a way you can understand. Everyone in the game can punish a blocked shoryuken SF.
Almost no one can punish a blocked EWGF, then you have to remember something, Tekken is a 3d game, meaning you have an extra dimension to move around in, meaning you don’t have to BLOCK everything like you do in SF, you can move around it or jump over it.
For example, if a Bryan player knows I’m going for ss4 with Feng wei, stead of blocking it, he can u/f3 and get his combo. That don’t really work like that in SF.
stfu bleet! You ruined my moment! BAD BAD! Go to your corner!
Ahem, anyway, Tekken is a hard game to get good at, intermediate to learn. Of course at low levels it’ll look really cool because they’re throwing out loads of unsafe moves and spamming, but at high levels it’s eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil, and methodical.
