Not a bad idea Frank, but again I am in favor of a round robin foremost, but if not possible I wouldn’t mind that idea as runner up.
I don’t understand how a challenge system is broken. Please explain. Isn’t that a way to give everyone a chance to get on the team as opposed to only a certain number of people? Frank and I already proposed the idea of the person challenging to play a gauntlet before/after beating the person they challenged. So picking the weakest link so to speak, while it’s a sound strategy, would only work if you could beat the remaining members. You couldn’t be out of practice with a challenge system, that’s for sure. If people pick on you, then let that be a sign to step it up. This is serious, so don’t take it personal cause this is about forming the best team possible. I figure that’s a lot more plausible than a round robin with over 25 people. A lot of which, can’t make both events.
My aim is the same as everyone else’s, forming the strongest team. If Jimmy, Frank, and King can’t make an event, and they suffer because of it, I’m sorry, that’s hurting the team’s potential. Same goes for a lot of the individuals that cannot make events. That’s what needs to be kept in mind.
EDIT-Besides that, this is an idea proposal. I hope Cole considers it, if not, RR it is but I hope people that cannot make it are accomodated if that’s the fact.
If you challenge someone, beat them, then beat the gauntlet, who goes from the team? You could say the person you origionally challenged goes, but you’ve also beated 6 other people as well.
Once you prove your place, there should be a way to determine who is stepping down.
well I guess it’s not BROKEN if everyone that wants a shot at the final 10 has to run the gauntlet. Even if all 17 players decide they want a serious shot at being on the team, those 17 playing the initial 10 certainly takes a lot less time than 27 people playing 27 people. Although I guess the 10 that would have to defend their positions might not end up being the same 10 people the whole time…
But let’s say Person A challenges Person B for a spot on the team. Let’s assume the gauntlet is defined as being the entire team including Person A (so all 10 players). Person B wins 7 of the 10 matches, but one of his three losses were to Person A. Although B did get more wins than losses and should be bumped up to the top 10, should A really be kicked off seeing how A actually beat B?
If the gauntlet is everyone except Person A, and A is kicked off in favor of B, does A get any chance to run it back or is he off the team for good? Or would he get only one shot to redeem himself by running the new gauntlet?
(I actually think the gauntlet should include all 10 players, because even though mirror matches are silly, there are times you’re just going to have to play them anyway, what can you do if this situation comes up in a tournament? besides picking another char I mean, and you’re not going to be able to do that in the 5v5)
yeah, I forsee a lot of problems with the gauntlet, particularly in terms of fairness, hard questions like the one BBH asked will probably come up, which is why I’d probably rather just have cole pick 10 and have a RR with just 10… But I still say the bigger RR is possible if we run it efficiently over the course of a couple days.
how many of the selected 27 are ACTUALLY GOING TO EVO? and WHO ACTUALLY wants to be on the 5v5 team? i think we should go from there
- King - Zangief-EVO
- Mickey D - Ryu-EVO
- Jason "The Future - ? EVO
- John Michaels “LTB” - Ken EVO
- Nolan - C. Viper EVO
- Frank da Dank - Bison EVO
- Mark Santos - Zangief
- Rowtron - Dhalsim EVO
- Mechanica - El furte (?)
- Rattana - Sagat EVO?
- Jmar - Sagat EVO?
- James ShowWrecker - Balrog
- Adam - Ryu
- Josh - Akuma EVO
15)Julian (Airthrow) - Bison EVO
16)Lord BBH -
17)fatbear
18)samb
19)rayblade
20)mkmaster503
Wild Card Players - Deezo - Chun-Li EVO
- Peachy - Blanka EVO?
- Paul Lee - Sagat EVO
- Munky - Abel
- Paul G - Akuma
- Kyle - Rufus EVO?
- Ian - Bison
so out of that 27 i marked a possible 14, anyone i missed feel free to correct +/- and thats who should play to get on the TEAM. EVERYONE should play to give/get exposure if youre on or off the list, but ONLY THOSE GOING TO EVO should be playing for a TEAM spot
For the challenge/gauntlet idea, why not just have both the challenger and challengee run the gauntlet (including playing eachother) with their character? Whoever does the best, has the spot on the team. The person on the team should have a chance to run it back too once IMO.
The only real issue I’d see with the challenge thing, and I’m not 100% if its been addressed yet, is if the character you play isn’t on the team. In that case I’d imagine one could just challenge whoever. I guess this has potential to be like “oh well shit i switched up mains let me challenge this guy,” but that can be solved by people not tryin to weasel their way on the team. Just keep it real.
No offense, but Mark has other priorities and has to leave most Zach nights earlier which leads to sandbagging. I’m just speaking from what I observed so take it how you will. When he’s open the whole night and focused, he’s gonna place (i.e. that night vs. King).
I think this is why people else where just have the captain pick some players, but then people bitch about it being a popularity contest. Cole’s idea is actually the realest and most illest way to do it.
It is a legit way but there is no way I’m playing hundreds of games of SF4 for what??@#. Pick 10 people get the challenge crackin, complain/hate/MM/whatever on the side until top five or basically 3 players are picked for the initial 5 and 5 on the bench.
Everyone is on the same page that a RR is THE MOST FAIR way to do things. However it seems very unlikely. First off, time constraints. If we even wanted to attempt this it would have to be done over MINIMUM 2 if not 3 days. Now to have everyone commit to coming to those 2 days is gonna pose a problem, there are too many factors to make this feasible. Oregon people coming up on 2 specific days? People with work, family and life just getting in the way? Everything would have to align perfectly for all 27 people AND on 2 days. I doubt that is going to happen. Its possible but unlikely. So I agree with what Mandel has posted. And here’s bullet point recap just to keep it strait.
- Cole picks top 10.
- If anyone disagrees with the choice. They can challenge the person they don’t agree with.
- the challenged and challengee goes through a gauntlet of the 9 other players + against each other. Higher number of wins takes the spot.
- People are allowed only one challenge.
Caveat:
This can still pose a problem in terms of time if EVERY one decides they want to challenge. The only thing I can think of to deter people from challenging even when they have doubts, is to put their money where their mouth is. SOOOOOOO…
$20 to challenge. This should just be enough to filter out the people who really only want to challenge because they can vs the people who think they really are that much better than the challengee.
If you win you get your spot + your $20 back. Otherwise you lose your $20 to the challengee.
I feel if a person isn’t willing to challenge then we wouldn’t be gaining much as a TEAM from that person. IE he feels he is about EQUAL but not BETTER than any1 specific on the team.
I want to point out again that this isn’t the MOST FAIR way to determine out 5v5 roster. But it is the best balance between time/fairness.
-King
Ultimate and bestest solution:
Step 1- Trust Cole
Step 2- Cole picks the top 10. If you are in the top 10, go to step 3. If not go to Step 4.
Step 3- Start practicing. Humbly accept all challenges. Not for your spot, but for your advancement.
Step 4- Start training the top 10. If you think you are better than them, share what you know to help them improve. If you wanna rep the NW give them your best, to TRAIN them. The better training they receive, the better the NW performs. If you CAN beat someone in the top 10, then they’ve learned something. Forget about proving anything. Evo also has singles for that.
Keep it simple.
- Break up all of the players into groups.
- Have those groups play a round-robin tournament.
- Compare results & make a ranking.
- Tweak/challenge as necessary.
Looks like you have 27 possible entrants. I’d suggest four pools of 7, and you can arrange them so there are few mirror matches (no more than two people with the same character in a pool, so no player has to do more than one). Now you’ve got four small tournaments, each one needing 21 matches. Try to space out the best players, when possible. Keep track of rounds won, write 'em down. If people show up late, those people can be in their own pool, so you’ll be able to complete most of the pools early in the night.
Tally up the matches and rounds won, see who’s got the most points. Probably points = (matches won - matches lost), and tie-break with (rounds won - rounds lost). If you want to let people challenge to get in after that, fine.
Whatever happens Kings 20 dollar challenge idea is official!! No money no challenge, drop all the dead weight.
Pools of 7 RR style = 42 matches per pool
42 * 4 pools = 168
5 mins * 168 = 840 mins
=14 hours of play. No better than we were at before and now people can be placed into a bad pool. since every point counts in a round robin. If we took 2 equal players playing say Abel. But only 1 has to face a gief (terrible matchup for abel), thats enough of an edge to lock the win for the other Abel, which defeats the whole purpose of pushing for a RR anyways.
I’m definitely down for letting Cole pick top 10 though, I trust him. I just wanted to give people who think they’re better that 1 of the top 10 a chance to get on the team.
In all reality, I think Cole is definitely trying to please everyone and get this done fairly. I’m pretty sure Cole has enough experience playing against/watching the players on the list where he has a good idea on who would make top 10.
My only problem with the whole thing is right now we stand… less than 7 weeks to get the team practiced up. The organizing of this giant RR tournament is going to use A LOT of the time the Team could be having.
My idea would be to say have the top10 Seattle/WA players + Top5 Portland players all get at the next Preppy’s (15 people RR would be much more feasible) and play it out. Friday nights are generally good for most because that way those people have another day to get home (Or saturdays work better?). I would say get those Top 15 to play the RR first.
Establish the Top5 then over the weeks before Evo, you have the team practice up as much as possible, and hold say the end of June/beginning of July you can have someone step up and put $25 for the challenge. You run the gauntlet of the 5 man team and if that person’s character has to mirror-match*with someone then so be it, but they still have 4 other characters that he won’t be mirroring with.
*If the person ends up having a mirror match, and he successfully beats at least 3 of the 5, then the person already on the Team should run the same gauntlet to prove he can do better.
It’s just an idea, let me know if I screwed something up while typing it and I’ll clarify, but I think this would probably end up being a LOT quicker and more effective for the Team in the long run to get practicing sooner.
Edit: This just reminds me of Elliott after typing all this, “WHO RUN BARTER TOWN?!”
you forgot your name on the list homie.
anyways, whatever happens, happens. im just tryna play. and seriously though, even if im not on the top 10, youll still see my ass, cuz munky said it right, its a good idea to train the top 10. and with training the 10, youll be training yourself and getting prepared for evo.
so, king, lets say cole picks 10 and im not on that list, i get to challenge aspecific person on the 10 for thier spot for the dub? but i would have to play against the other 9 as well right? thats pretty dope.
atleast were all on the same boat and we know that it need to happen soon and im down for cole just t0 pick 10 and go with kings idea. itll save a lot of time. i dont think anyone would have any hard feelings either
You could try having a line like in the arcade where player 1 plays player 2. If player 1 wins then they play the next person in line. Each time they get a win they get a point. After 5 consecutive wins the person winning goes to the back of the line and the next two players up will play. First person to 25 points gets a spot, then the next to 25 and so on. If you do it that way then there is no bad pool. Also the person going first can’t just clear 25 in a row and win.
The points don’t have to be 25 it could be whatever you want. This is a possible method because if you want to play then you will have to streak.
I’m down for that too man. I will run the guantlet just to get some straight practice in against some beastly players. If we go with it, I will challenge. What will the 20 bucks go to?
The only problem I can see is people getting PO’d about getting challenged and knocked off. Like a said before, why should the person you challenged get kicked off, if 6 or 7 other people on the team couldn’t beat you either. Unless your playing the same character as the person you challenged, everybody lost to you equally.
I think challenging the Gauntlet in general is a better idea. If you’ve proven you deserve spot, then the team decides where you go on it.
I see this getting sticky real fast.
Second Idea- All team members could carry around token’s like Gym Badges, and when you collect them all, you get admitted to the Pokemon League.
That sounds a lot like my post a few up, but I do like this idea of Badges and Pokaymans.
Zaybra Tango Nine-o Combo!