To sweep Fuerte you need to have the tatsu connect at almost max distance. Try:
j.hk, c.mp, c.mp xx lk tatsu > sweep.
If you perform say a s.hp xx lk tatsu > sweep it won’t (or will rarely) connect as the tatsu hits him too close - you need some distance between the two characters.
Isn’t it because the tatsu hits from a later frame the further you are, so your relative frame advantage is bigger?
Hey Guys, I just tested out the BnB -> sweep on every character via the record/playback feature using Guile as my first subject. I used cr.Mp xx l.tatsu into sweep and I found that this was the list. I’m guessing landing it on El Fuerte is the hardest one to land but it doesn’t seem to require anymore of a longer length to land than the other characters in fact I think its even tighter or impossible to land via a “reaching tatsu”, I’ll upload a video soon to show different landings of it if my phone will properly upload…
Worked on:
Chun-li
Guile
Rose
Balrog
Sagat
Adon
E. Honda
Zangief
El Fuerte
Vega
Fei Long
T. Hawk
Hakan
Guy
Cody
Dee Jay
C. Viper
Dhalsim
Seth
Akuma
Gouken
Dan
Sakura
Cammy
Didn’t Work on
Ken
Ibuki
Ryu
Juri
Blanka
Abel
M. Bison
Makoto
Dudley
Gen
Rufus
any updates?
Hey,
In an attempt to better organize my akuma mix up knowledge, I created a basic flowchart. This is not new information by any means, but I am going to post it here. This one is centered around the sweep.
Feedback in appreciated, especially if I have neglected a good option or setup.
thanks in advance.
Akumasweep.pdf - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage
after knocking down with a demon flip palm, throw, or ultra demon, you have enough time to set up an instant-air fireball mixup and then hit confirm into your BnB afterwards
palm: walk back for a brief moment, then tiger knee jab fireball. depending on how fast you do it, it can hit your opponent either direction (crossup or not).
air throw: immediately dash forward once and then do the tiger-knee jab fireball.
ultra demon: this varies depending on how the opponent wakes up, but normally, I take about one step back then do the instant air fireball.
No.
After demon flip throw, dash once, jump and then immediately perform a manual lp air fireball to properly cross-up.
TK fireball does not work here as the required immediate dash inputs flood out the subsequent fireball motion.
After the throw, dashing once and then jumping and performing a manual lp fireball as you leave the ground provides the correct positioning.
Do you mean that TK air fireball won’t x-up after DF throw x 1 dash? Because IIRC it does, it just has to be done as fast possible, a tiny bit of delay will result in a none x-up air fireball which makes the whole thing pretty ambiguous.
Try it. The dash floods out the inputs for a reliable tk ball.
Dashing once and then jumping and performing a manual lp air ball places it correctly and crosses up.
This has been discussed before and it was agreed that the dash once, jump and quickly lp air ball was the best approach. If it helps to know, this is Tokido’s preferred method also.
tk balls are only really applicable after two scenarios with respect to wake-up traps:
I’ve been tinkering with back throw, as you can let the throw animation complete (to confirm the side you are on for inputs) and then lp tk ball though frame advantage doesn’t happen. In fact, given Akuma’s wealth of setups from a forward throw, I honestly cannot see any use for his back throw at all when compared to forward.
The tk airball thread (linked in one of the stickied threads above) runs over these details I have mentioned above and has a little more discussion in it. I raised then and am considering again the importance of compiling this information into its own thread - namely Akuma’s more rigid and guaranteed setups. We have tk ball, vortex, safe-jump, etc data all over the place which results in a lot of repetition in discussion which would be great if we could instead have it all ironed out in one place.
Here’s the tk ball thread I mentioned:
http://shoryuken.com/f249/tiger-kneed-air-fireballs-178982/
Enjoy! (Discussion that you’re perhaps most interested in is on the last page.)
Really gamogo? I was trying the dashforward tk ball and it seemed like it worked fine.
I mean the only way I can see the dash flooding out the input is if you hit punch too early and you do an srk but if you dash, do a tk motion and hit P once your airborne, I dont see how it would flood it.
Thanks for the detailed response Gamogo, but for some reason I am more comfortable doing TK air fireballs after DFG x 1 dash, I just gotta delay pressing the lp button to avoid getting an SRK as Nu-Skoool mentioned and the air fireball will be meaty and will cross up if done as early as possible.
I have noticed Tokido barely using TK air fireballs setups though, does the normal jump air fireball give more frame advantage on block (maybe even make it possible to punish a focus absorption on wakeup to avoid guessing which way to block?)? guess best way to check is through training mode, will check if it’s meaty or not too
I totally agree about having a thread with a compilation of all of Akuma’s solid setups (first post being updated constantly), IMO it should also include setups after good techable knockdowns too, like ex fireball or shaku, I’ve recently been trying to check for more setups after ex fireball since it gives great stun
Ya, the tk ball after dash was too fickle for myself and a few others so the dash, jump, lp ball was the go-to option which works well also.
Ya, Tokido’s odd with his lp ball cross-ups. I’m not too sure why he does it this way - maybe its because he’s not confident in landing the tk ball consistently? I recall an EVO match against an Abel where he clearly botched one though he didn’t get punished for it (tk ball instead came out as a j.lp) though it perhaps cost him a setup.
I’m find a lot of my opponents lately are blocking cross-up balls correctly as I do it often to keep the bastards honest. I’m indirectly teaching them how to deal with it I guess so I think I need to mix-it up a bit more 
Both methods work, its just the the method I’ve mentioned offers reliable consistency unless you have the tk motion really nailed. My tk balls are solid after palm and demon knockdowns, though after a flip grab I get mixed results. Jumping and immediately lp balling fixes this and offers same same end result.
So what it comes downs to then is what you are comfortable with? In my opinion manual air fireballs come out late and by no means am I slow on inputs.
my manual instant air fireballs were always bad. i’d always mess up and have jab shoryu come out, then eat a really nasty combo. because of that i’d just do TK fireballs for everything.
thanks for the info though, gamogo - i always wondered why tokido did manual balls. i’m gonna test out both methods later. we really should have a complete mixup thread, too; i see a lot of akumas that don’t take full advantage of his options.
Ok, so I tested both tk balls and manual lp air balls after the flip throw as I don’t like having bad info around here attached to posts I make
Both methods work. I managed to prevent the input flood problem I had in the past by paying special attention to Akuma’s animations (i.e. when he properly recovers from the throw and ends his forward dash) so managed to get the tk ball option working reliably.
Its worth nothing that BOTH methods work and I’d actually recommend folks revert to the flip grab > dash once > jump forward > quickly lp air ball method if they find the tk fireball motion unreliable for them. In this instance the manual jump airball will still cross-up after the dash and you also gain frame advantage.
I still find it interesting that Tokido uses the manual method. I assume this is because it works and is perhaps easier (more reliable?) for him to perform. It really sucks when you botch a tk ball as it usually kills any offensive momentum and ruins an otherwise sweet spot of wake-up trickery.
If the jump > instant air fireball gives more frame advantage on block than the TK method, I think that’s why Tokido would use it, I highly doubt it’s an execution issue because if I can do the TK method somewhat reliably after the demon flip grab, Tokido would be able to do it with one hand while he’s asleep lol
I still gotta check a couple of things about the manual air fireball but I’ve been too lazy recently and I suck at executing it, so if you use the manual air fireball often maybe you’d be able to help me out understand a few things:
How easy is it to perform a non-cross up fireball with it? so you’d mix it up every once in a while, with the TK method I just delay the air fireball for a tiny bit and it wouldn’t cross up.
Is it meaty? i.e the opponent wouldn’t be able to jump out on wakeup and just get reset by the the fireball to prevent eating a full combo
Got enough time to punish focus absorption dashes or back dashes on wakeup?
If you aren’t, try plink it.
To land sweep against Fuerte, you basically need to end your combo with a max range cr. mp xx lk Tatsu (it makes it hit meaty). So, basically just do enough cr. lp’s until you get to that distance.
So for punishing Fuerte, do you guys just opt for a DP ender instead? Or the c.MP > s.HP link?