Tandem Engine - Properties Testing

Note: work in progress.

Okay, so according to the frame data, Tandem Engine is +19 on block and +23 on hit. Now, what the hell does that mean? This move is fairly weird, and I personally think it will eventually become a very powerful tool. I’ve done some testing so you guys don’t have to.

Introduction stuff, feel free to skip:Tandem Engine has 3 parts, just like every other move: Startup, active frames, and recovery. LP Tandem Engine has 21 frames startup, which is a lot, and it gets worse from there. It also has a large number of active frames, which is when your opponent gets sucked in. However, the general consensus is that Tandem Engine goes immediately into its recovery frames once your opponent is right next to Seth. Your opponent is left blocking/open for a variable amount of time depending on how far away they were when they get sucked in.

Now that we’ve established how Tandem Engine works, I’ll explain how safe/unsafe/advantageous it is to use Tandem Engine. In case you don’t know, the range of Tandem Engine depends on which punch you use. LP goes about half the screen, MP about two thirds, and HP goes almost the entire screen. The different versions seem to suck the opponent in at the same speeds, and the maximum distance you can move the opponent when blocking is about two and a half training room squares (this means that you should always use the weakest version possible because the startup is faster). If the opponent isn’t next to you by then, you go into your recovery. However, if the opponent isn’t blocking Tandem Engine, they are sucked in much more quickly, which will usually leave you with enough frame advantage generally to combo with s.hp or cr.lp. If the opponent was close, you have enough time to combo into s.hk or cr.hp. However, there is a range where you can’t combo off of Tandem Engine on hit.

Anyway, I figured out that Tandem Engine is -4 on block if it isn’t cancelled out of. If Guile is sucked in from across the screen, he can punish you with Flash Kick, which is a 4-frame move. Cammy, on the other hand, cannot punish with Cannon Spike, which is a 5 frame move. On hit, Tandem Engine seems to be completely unpunishable, but it doesn’t seem to give you any frame advantage. I think Seth is -1 or even on hit, but I haven’t tested with Zangief’s ultra yet.

The frame data seems to be describing what happens when the opponent is right next to you. For example, you can combo into a level 1 Focus Attack if you use Tandem Engine at point blank, which is a 21 frame move. If LP Tandem has 69 total frames, then the recovery should be 69 - 21 - 24 = 24 frames. That means that since Tandem is +23 on hit and +19 on block, the total hitstun/blockstun is 47 frames and 43 frames respectively.

I think this thread deserves more attention.

Normal Tandem Engine has been almost 100% unexplored, and it is currently the only move that I don’t frequently use in the entirety of Seth’s arsenal.

I use jab.Tandem after a blockstun string to try to get the other guy to mash something out. Otherwise I just use it to build a little meter =P Kinda like how Arturo uses it in his casual matches =)

But in all seriousness, I agree that Tandem has some kind of hidden OP-ness to it that we haven’t figured out yet.

Anyone ever thought of “whiff canceling” a cr.mk xx jab Tandem? Kind of the same concept as Sakura with her whiff cr.mk xx dp. I’ve been meaning to try this out, and might do some testing this weekend.

Basically, you stay outside of sweep range and perform a cr.mk and empty cancel it into a jab Tandem Engine. If the cr.mk connects, the hope is that the Tandem will suck them in for a free combo of choice. However, I don’t think the cr.mk xx jab Tandem is a true combo…they might be able to jump out of it.

That’s an excellent idea =) Will try it out tonight. Though I use Sakura’s c.Forward -> Shoryu a lot, I find that Seth can use c.Forward -> LL :tup:

Edit: After looking at the frame data, it’s impossible =\ But what I did notice is that it may be possible to link jab.Tandem to jab.Tandem!~ Am I reading the data right? :lol: Could you imagine an infinite loop of jab.Tandems once you have the life lead? XD :rofl: 21 frame startup, 23 frame advantage on hit~

Darn, back to the drawing board :lol:

THIS needs to be looked at…imagine the ragequits…the people on SRK going nuts…seth being banned at…wait nevermind NOONE USE THIS! =P

That was one of the first things I attempted to do even before frame data was out, and there was a short window during which your opponent could jump or attempt a reversal SRK. (don’t remember too well and might be wrong, it was several months ago)

Which leads me to believe that the +23 frame advantage is only given in some extreme case that almost never happens, like landing Tandem as your opponent is dashing in or as Blanka/Abel is hopping/rolling at you.

Yeah just tested it for fun, but no go…maybe someone could find a way to use a blockstring though that ends in a TE and repeat that… =)

Can any normal cancel into an inescapable TE? Can regular TE be comboed into?

I’ve found cr. lk, cr. lp, cr. mp xx lp Tandem Engine, cr. lk, cr. lp, lp SPD works as a silly hard to figure out block string.

I have not tried crouching fierce, and that is the only possible candidate because its blockstun is not listed in the frame data. Thanks for the reminder.

No. If someone is being hit while your Tandem Engine would suck them in, they avoid it completely and could punish you.

Doesn’t work for me anymore~ The people I play with spam before c.Strong so they get out of Tandem trap =\

I was using Seth tonight in casuals, will upload some videos of some interesting bits =)

Really? I thought that the only way to stop that would be for the opponent to jump. Doesn’t 3 pokes take them out of attack range?

I’ll be ripping my matches onto Youtube tonight. I’ve been Headbutt (Balrog), ex.Headbutt (Honda), Jumped out of, Ultra’d… Yeah it’s not safe =P Just fun =)

I’ve noticed that EX-tandom has what seems to be a combo-limiter on it if you do it as anti-air.

Make them jump, do ex-tandem before they land, suck them in, and now try to do a 2-or-more move combo. The 2nd move will whiff completely (if you didn’t knock them down). Jab, DP, fierball, whatever.

Does normal tandem ever do this?

To be honest, i forgot Seth had Tandem Engine.
Can you FADC Tandem Engine? if you can, that would be balls ->wall.

i discovered that tandem engines can’t hit during block or hitstuns, so it can be considered as a " throw " . however ex tandem catches opponents in juggle state ( hence crouching fierce punch to ex tandem ). and if i recalled correctly, i dont think you can FADC tandem, ex or not. ( lol at ex tandem FADC, a wasted super bar from low damaging attacks <_< )

Blocked cr.HP xx Tandem Engine.

Nuff said!

They can jump out of that. But it’s a good idea if they’re not holding up or mashing shoryu.

So yeah, no matter what version of Tandem Engine you do off of cr.hp or what hit you cancel from, they can reversal (or worse, jump) out of it.