^^ This guy knows what’s up.
Well… I like to do this (LK kara ex cancel dash >throw)… people say its a waste of stock but its a good throw setup on someone who is turtleing and not really throwing out random shit. I do it a lot
if someone doesnt hit you with their free combo they get from this they are awful
Hey guys looking for training partners to help me step my game up with Sagat. My Sagat is brutal, real brutal… under pressure I really fold.
If anyone wants to send me to Xbox Live and show me some stuff that would be great.
So been practicing non stop the stuff you guys posted here + the combo section but i havent seen this one so there it goes:
f.lk,c.lp,EXTU,ultra 510dmg 1 stock used; Obv you could use HPTU FADC f.HK ultra thingie, but it does only 527dmg and those 17 points are not worthy the extra stock IMO, works great as a comeback in the final round when you have only 1stock left and you are FAR away from the corner, damn you glitched ultra…
If this have been discussed before, im sorry, but i really didnt see it so i tought about sharing it
Anotak i posted at TL asking for some tips, maybe you could help me there?
It’s very risky to do the EX TU>Ultra Link since it’s character specific and requires tight timing, it’s always much better to go with HP TU>dash cancel due to reliability. But hey if you’ve got nothing to lose and you’re confident you can hit that as well as hitconfirm into it, why not.
it is really character specific? i think i have managed to do it at least once against every character, just buffering the input before the last hit of EXTU and hitting 3k as soon as i get into the ground
People say it’s impossible on characters like honda but i did it on him in training mode. It is a tight link though, but plinkable.
Has anyone noticed that Sagat is the last character in SSFIV that nobody knows what his new alt is? I hope it is a pirate outfit.
Thanks for the heads up.
Sagat for life.
Who do we have left for the wake-up game? Gouken, Viper, Gen and Honda?
Ok, then Viper and Gouken.
C.Viper
Wake-up options
HP Thunder knuckle - Hit’s on frame 7. Invincible on frames 1-6. -22 on block. That’s free w/e you want including raw ultra. To meaty os this you are gonna need to be frame perfect. Now since you are holding down back, if you are good at it and she goes for this, you won’t get hit. But if you are off by even a frame you will eat this. This is good to practice your meaty timing against in practice mode. She can FADC this so if she has meter keep your eyes open. Your go to punish would be stand strong xx fierce TU. If you have Ultra then blow her away.
Burning kick - Airborne on frame 1. Hits on framse 23, 25, and 27 for lk, mk and hk respectively for the different versions. Very safe on block. lk is 0 on block. mk is +1 on block. hk is +2 on block. If you see this in response to a meaty low short, you can FA it after you absorb the hit, hit her out of it with a normal, or TU her if you can react fast enough. Meaty TK on wake-up will smash through this. EX BK has invincibility on frames 1-8. Hits on frame 9. -6 on block. This move flies completely over Sagat’s head if he is crouching. Then you can just combo her when she lands or even raw Ultra as she goes over your head. This move tends to get used if you get a little too meaty TK happy or meaty grab happy. But don’t worry about it TOO much. Any Viper worth his/her salt will not rely on this. It will get pulled out on occasion. If you block this then just do low strong xx fierce TU.
EX Seismo - Hits on frame 19. Invincibility on frames 1-13. -2 on block. Viper’s main offensive wake-up tool. If you see this on wake-up in response to a meaty low short then you can just do low jab/low strong xx fierce TU. Or grab her if you are close enough. You could also raw TU if you are fast enough. If you block this she will just sjc and be safe or continue her pressure by doing a bk so just blocking won’t net you much at all.
Super - HP version is the one to watch out for. This can catch your meaty. As it hits on frame 6. Invincibility on frames 1-4. Be careful when Viper has full meter. This is -52 on block. Feel free to go upstairs, have a quicky with ur girl come back down stairs, taunt and then raw ultra her ass or w.e punish you want.
Ultra - Hits on frame 7. Invincible on frames 1-10. -201 on block. (good lord). Feel free to go upstairs, have a quicky with ur girl come back down stairs, taunt and then raw ultra her ass or w.e punish you want. This is another move that you will need to be frame perfect to meaty.
Backdash - Total frames of 27. Distance of 1.2. Solid backdash overall. This is pretty much her best wake-up option. Sagat can’t OS this without a safe jump. In which case safe jump OS TU will catch her. To shut this down, you can go for a kara TU if you smell a backdash or the easy way would be to mix in more cross ups.
Best wake-up options
Backdash, block +os tech
Basic Gameplan
So the wake-up game vs Viper really depends greatly on if if the Viper player knows she is free or not. If the player doesn’t know she is free on wake-up then expect lots of thunder knuckles and ex seismos which you can easily take advantage of. Just meaty os and proceed to rape. If they do know then expect tricker more patient play on her wake-up. Lots of blocking while trying to feel you out mixed in with backdashes and the occasional other wake-up options like ex seismo, bks, etc. They Viper is gonna try to read you. If you have a habit of doing meaty TK’s expect ex seismos, and ex bks. If you like meaty low short then expect backdashes. That sort of thing. I would say you will probably rely more on your cross up in this match since it beats or avoids all of her stuff. Very smart patient vipers will not take a risk of always trying to challenge you on wake-up. For the most part they will just 50/50 between block or backdash. In which case cross ups or meaty os are both good options. If she blocks she is looking for that os tech to create space or might even be looking for a hole to ex seismo through in your pressure. Be on your guard. Conditioning is just HUGE in this match. Get her to do what you want her to do and you need to be frame perfect for your wake-up pressure game, otherwise you will just mess up and get knocked down. Then you get vortexed. You don’t wanna get vortexed.
In the corner - She has sum stuff in her. Namely neutral jump bk, ex bk, and sj out of corner. Just watch her and try to contain her. You may need to throw in sum psychic high step kicks. That will make her think twice about trying to jump. She doesn’t die here for free like alot of other chars do with poor wake-up. Again conditioning is huge in this situation and you really have to know what type of Viper you are fighting. Will she take a risk with an ex bk? Or will she sit on block and try to sj away first chance she gets?
Gouken
Wake-up options
Counter - These can be armor broken with TK or grabbed. Counter isn’t that huge of a threat. Good Goukens understand the huge risk they take with this. They would need to counter high or low and know what attack you are going to do. Ex counter is more viable since it counters any hit level, but still gets armor broken and losses to grabs. Again good Goukens won’t rely on this too much. It’s a desperation tactic if anything.
Ex Tatsu - Hits on frame 7. -97 on block. Does have invincibility, but the wiki doesn’t specify how much. You can meaty OS this it just has to be frame perfect. Not much else to say about it. Most Gouken’s would prefer to use his other options.
Ex Demon Flip - Has invincibility on start-up, from frames 1-25. There are ways to deal with this. You can do a move that will allow you to dodge any follow up. Like stand rh or low forward then punish him when he lands. You can also jump back rh when you see this and it will beat w/e he tries or just give you space if he did the parry and give him grey life. This move has alot of frames before he can actually do anything, so you really shouldn’t be getting hit with it. Train yourself and your responses to this move because it’s basically free damage anytime he does it.
Super/Ultra - Put them both here since they both hit on frame 11. You can meaty os them of course. Super is -89 on block while Ultra is -123 on block. Super has invincibility on frames 1-12, while Ultra is invincible on frames 1-11.
Backdash - Total frames of 25. Distance of 0.8. Gouken doesn’t go anywhere with this. Just sweep him if you see it or baited it with a meaty os.
Best wake-up options
Block + os tech, ex demon flip
Basic gameplan
Most Gouken’s will just want to sit on block when they don’t have meter. They may try for a backdash occasionally though. Be ready to use meaty grabs, but Gouken’s also like to neutral jump to avoid the grab and throw off bad meaties. So a healthy mix of meaty grabs, meaty TK’s and meaty low short pressure is really good on meterless Gouken. You can throw in some overheads too to keep him guessing. Once he has meter he will be looking for ex demon flip and even ex tatsu to a lesser degree. Meaty os low short takes care of both. If gouken gets desperate and has meter things get more dangerous since his meter makes him a tad bit more unpredictable. Ex tatsu can beat meaty TKs/grabs while ex counter takes care of meaty low short os. Just watch him closely and you may even wanna rely more on outright baiting then using your attacks. Still the situation greatly favors Sagat and good Gouken’s will be wary of spending meter carelessly when they know that one misstep on wake-up could lose the round for them.
In the corner
Expect ex demon flip or neutral jump fierce. He may also try jump tatsu to escape, but that’s easily punished with high step kick, kara TU, kara TK or ex tiger shots. His options aren’t amazing here, but he can somewhat tricky. If you are throwing shots he may take a risk with rush palm so be careful. For the most part though if you get Gouken in this situation that should be the round.
Only Honda eh?
Honda
Knockdown games:
If you’ve managed to knockdown Honda and he didn’t quick-get up, jump to the other side to mess with his back charge, leaving him with only the other side for a down charge, which means his only reversal option is backdash and buttsplash.
Wale-Up Options:
Buttsplash - Normal hits on frame 14, and EX on frame 9. 12 frames invincible. Meaty low short allows you to block in time (while making his first hit whiff), as well as LP TU on the way down (I find this TU the most reliable). If second hit is blocked on the way down for LK, MK, and EX, it’s safe on block -2, while HK is -3 and only punishable with cr.LP. So always TU him on the way down before he can connect. He can try the far versions to be tricky, but at that distance you can either block and TU on his way down, or just keep crouching if you see he’ll whiff and TU. This puts him on the floor again to be played with. Also a cross with short can beat this, but if you’re jumping at that timing and the Honda player is good expect an autocorrect Headbutt.
LP Headbutt - This is easily stuffed with a low move like meaty short, teach him to never do it. Stuffs meaty TK.
EX Headbutt - Hits on frame 9, safe on block, it’s a get out of jail card at the cost of one EX for Honda. You can meaty short and block, wasting an ex for him and going back to zone. A good option for this is to safe-jump OS HP TU which beats it, as well as ruining his back charge on knockdown (so his only option is buttsplash). Be careful about crossing Honda as he gets up, since he can autocorrect EX Headbutt to hit you.
Super - Hits on frame 8 for LP, 9 for MP and HP, -6 on block. Meaty low short to bait it, punish with HP TU to be safe, since sometimes cr.MP>HP TU makes the HP TU whiff. Be careful about crossing Honda just as he gets up, since he can auto-correct super to hit you.
Ultra - Hits on frame 10, -15 on block. Meaty low short to bait it, punish with HP TU to be safe, since sometimes cr.MP/MK>HP TU makes the HP TU whiff.
Backdash - Total frames of 27, distance 0.8. Meaty low short, and you can punish with either sweep or HP TU.
Best wake-up options:
block + os teach, EX headbutt
Basic gameplan:
If Honda has no meter, just keep up with the cr.lk. He’ll occasionally do a LK buttsplash since it has decent invincibility, but if you were careful while cr.lk and holding down back, simply punish with a TU. Also sporadically sometimes they’ll do LP Headbutts which can beat your cr.mp or cr.lp, but st.lk and cr.lk stuff LP headbutt, so stick to cr.lk>cr.lk to st.lk blockstring, and be careful with a tigerknee after st.lk since it can be stuffed by LP headbutt and Buttsplash. Also if the Honda has EX, always expect an EX Headbutt at anytime since it’s a free escape for Honda. After first cr.lk try to mix-up with grab, and if done at the right range where you’re out of his grab range, F+HP, this has a high rate of success since Honda’s are always holding down+back for that charge, it can mess them up.
In the corner:
His only option is limited to neutral jump fierce and buttsplash with no meter, but be wary of super and ultra. If you can stay at a range in which you can keep doing low tigers, as well as have enough time to punish a buttsplash on the way down, that’s the optimum range. You can take away a good chunk of his life through chip-damage tiger shots if you want to zone, or just rushdown in his face.
Emblem you should revise vs. Rufus. You can’t low short all day, since NORMAL messiah reversal beats that, it makes low moves whiff. That’s why in Japan they do the st close jab, st. far jab, st. far jab thing on wakeup, since it allows you to block any EX messiah kick, as well as beat the normal messiah and combo into HP TU. Also meaty st.close jab is a guaranteed hit on Rufus due to his retarded big hitbox when rising, and it recovers in 4 frames, which allows you to block anything he can throw, and it stuffs messiah kick. On wakeup BnB vs Rufus would go like this: st. close jab, st. far jab, st. far jab, HP TU.
Is Rufus airborne on frame 1? Even if he is and he does regular messiah, with os block he cannot hit you.
Yeah but then you’d block the messiah, leading into his paper scissors rock game with that, ending your rushdown. And go try it yourself, all cr.lk from all distances whiffed. c.lp and c.mp gets him, but dont have the great rushdown properties of cr.lk, so st. close lp.
K, I will add a note. I tend to mix in alot of meaty TK’s once I tame a Rufus, so that’s why I probably never noticed since they are too scared to try a normal messiah. Still I wouldn’t sweat this too much. A Rufus would either be crazy or just hella desperate to try this with any consistency. A parlor trick nothing more.
Ok, I feel stupid as hell for not really thinking about this sooner. The reason this works on Rufus is for a simple reason. When you get up from wake-up you are considered standing for one frame maybe a bit more. No matter what you do afterwards, be it crouch blocking, backdash or w/e you are standing for that moment just before you are able to do anything. When you go into a crouch block right after that your hitbox is still considered to be fully extended as if you were standing but you are still blocking low. This is why Cammy’s hooligan throw set-ups work on waking opponents. She can only grab standing opponents and going from standing to crouching keeps the hitbox extended for a very short time. To test it yourself do a meaty st. fierce on the CPU and set it to quick rise, auto block and crouch. If you time it right you will notice the CPU blocks it even though it’s crouching, but if you walk up and do it to the crouching CPU the st.fierce whiffs completely.
What does this mean? Well now we have an even better frame trap move to abuse and one that covers the option of moves that make an opponent airborne on frame 1. St.jab has 4 recovery frames not 5 giving you more leeway vs chars like Viper who’s fierce TK hits on frame 7. And it gives +4 on block making for tighter pressure strings if it’s blocked.
I wanted to find a good use for st.jab and now here it is.
Good shit to thegame4ever for posting that Rufus stuff and making me think about this.
Np emblem, just trying to expand our knowledge. If you can time it right, it’s good vs. Sagat since his TU is in 5 frames and you recover in 4, and if blocked you can link it into c.LP which gives no room for reversal SRK from Sagat due to frame advantage. The only problem I see with st. close jab is it does not hit low as opposed to our favourite cr.LK, but if they decide to block standing, you can always link it into cr.LK to teach them a lesson.
Nah, I don’t see this working on 5 frame reversals. You have the 1 active frame then 4 frames of recovery. The exact frame TU would hit on. You would get tagged in that last frame of recovery.