Excellent post Emblem, truly awesome
One thing, not that you missed it, and I’m defiantly not saying you don’t know either, because as far as im concerned that write up was S+ tier; but you can also link a crouching jab from standing fwd. Haven’t looked at the frame data for it but its a non CH link and just another tool at his disposal.
Again, just throwing it out there lol, sick post.
Probably going to copy this to note pad just in case SRK vanishes.
yes, I would just like to really emphasize this for anyone else reading this is REALLY key for a lot of matchups (like the shoto matchups).
if you cannot do this, then ryu has 7-3 advantage over sagat;
so you must always make ryu be careful about his feet, show him dat cheapness, s.lk to ex fireball his feet and make him cry
Yeah, whiff punishing is HUGE vs Ryu, Gouki and the mirror match.
Ironically Sagat rapes himself pretty hard in footsies. He can’t deal with his own stand forward that well other then random FA’s and tiger shots. But those will usually die to roundhouse in start-up. Which dies to stand forward and low fierce which dies to etc etc.
Yo Emblem thanks for the footsies write up , really good info. You contribute alot on here, good shit man.
s.lk LTS c.mk TU
One of the most versatile punishing combos, IMHO. Great range and stupid-fast with great damage and a hitconfirmable FADC (only FADC on hit). Anytime I tag with s.lk I generally follow up with a LTS for the possibility of doing this combo on hit.
Really any time you can tag an opponent with any normal that can cancel into a tiger shot (c.mk, s.lp, etc) you can follow up with a damaging FADC combo.
Hazeand was there suppose to be a “,” in between St.lk TS and cr.mk TU or is are you talking about st.lk ts fadc cr.mk tu
I’m pretty sure he meant s.lk xx LTS > FADC > c.mk xx TU. Considering the fact that s.lk can and will confirm all that ridiculous shit from a mile away. That, and he’s like the poster child for TS FADC combos, of course.
Hah, wow sorry I was really high, didn’t even remember to put in that there’s an FADC.:wonder:
:lk:, :qcf:+:k:, FADC , :d:+:mp:, :dp:+:hp:
tada
You got me
Beast… TS FADC to whatever is awesome. People you play instantly change their game to defense when you rock that on them.
I’ve asked asked a couple people in this thread already what the exact motions for kara shot is, and I still have trouble with it. Kara shot is the only kara I can’t get down and it’s annoying, if I do low step kic, then qcf I get kara knee:bluu:. Do I just need to do qcf faster or wut?
http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?216742-What-are-the-inputs-for-Sagat-s-kara-moves
http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?179155-Motion-for-Kara-f-lk-to-low-tiger-shot
http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?218540-How-do-you-do-sagats-kara-tiger-shot
these are on the VERY FIRST PAGE OF THIS FORUM
not to mention that this is the wrong thread for this
It’s not on the first page, but thanks anyway. :tup:
Yes it is you bloody cunt, look at the consolidated q&a thread.
I think to take Sagat to the next level, option selects are important. I know that it’s been mentioned in this thread before, but there hasn’t been one specific post that outlines Sagat’s option selects. I’m not referring to the crouching option select throw, btw, but more character (Sagat) specific option selects.
[media=youtube]3sUMpIqp114[/media]
[media=youtube]A1SOxi6NfVU[/media]
[media=youtube]3yY1V11PefI[/media]
[media=youtube]Ll0HzLDh08g[/media]
These are all things that look very useful. Top level players are working on using option selects and I don’t know why it is not more commonly referred to. Doing option selects make the game safer right?
So to the heavyhitters in this thread or any other knowledgeable Sagat: PGL, EmblemLord, Hazeandfire, etc., do you guys use option selects or practice them? Know them? I have a feeling it’s one of those subjects that American players tend to keep to themselves about, whereas Japanese players know about option selects and use them all the time.
Damn that was real helpful thanks bro.
Most of mine are off the wake-up game, but I actually do use that OS in the third video I just never really thought about it in those terms. To be honest there are alot of OS’s because of the buffer system. You can pretty much come up with an OS for almost any situation. I’m still trying to figure out other applications for them outside of wake-up and safe jump situations.
Anyway, with all the excitement over super and and the holidays before that I was neglecting this thread for a bit. Lemme jump right back into Sagat’s abusive wake-up game vs 2 characters.
Note - I have been experimenting against these reversals that hit late on wake-up and I noticed something interesting. When I attempt the meaty and then follow through with the pressure string Sagat keeps on blocking if they did a reversal. So if I did meaty low short then attempt a second low short, Sagat blocks and the second short never comes out. I think this is because during the recovery of the short their attack has already started and since I’m holding down/back I block and blocking takes precedence over other actions and my next attack never comes out. If this is so then vs pretty much all chars with reversals that start up late Sagat can safely attempt a meaty combo string without fear of retaliation. He would just block if they reversal. I need to experiment more to confirm this though, but I know UltraDavid mentioned the same thing in his wake-up OS thread with Gief so I know I’m not the only one who has noticed this.
Boxer
Wake-up options
Ex Headbutt - Obviously this is Rog’s go to wake-up move. Normal headbutt is complete trash and actually loses to meaty lows on wake-up so I won’t even discuss it. Ex version hits on frame 12 and is -12 on block. This is easily baited with low short and your timing would have to be complete trash for you to get hit by this if you attempt a meaty. After you block it an easy no meter punish is low forward xx fierce TU. If you have meter and ultra then tack on FADC f+hk ultra.
Ex Dash Straight - Has armor for one hit. Hits on frame 7 at point blank range. Hitting a move with armor seems to add more recovery to your attack so if he did this on wake-up and you did low short you will get tagged. If you are fighting a Rog that has a habit of this you can grab him or try for a meaty TK which breaks armor. Even though this is a fairly safe wake-up move you still got Rog to waste meter if you drew it out which is good. He may also try Ex dash low or Ex dash upper but straight is the best option because upper can be ducked then punished and low has more start-up time then straight.
Turn Around Punch - TAP is meh on wake-up. Can dodge a meaty, but then he is wide open. Has some good invincibility, but it runs out before he actually attacks. This move hits on frame 30 and the invincibility is on frames 1-18. Plenty of time to react and do w/e you want. If you are fast enough you could just Ultra on reaction. So this attack is bait for meaty low short. Only level 1 is safe on block at -2. The other levels can all be blocked and then punished with reversal TU.
Super - Hits on frame 9. Easily baited with low short then just block and punish. It’s -14 on block.
Ultra - Hits on frame 10. Again, this is fodder for low short. Extremely unsafe on block at -25.
Backdash - One of the better backdashes. Wiki is down at the moment, but I believe it’s 25 frames. Good distance and speed. You would OS this with a safe jump. So after a basic set-up like TU FADC f+hk, you can safe jump OS with j. rh buffer fierce TU. If he backdashed you will catch him. If he blocked then TU doesn’t come out.
Best options
Backdash, Ex Straight
Basic gameplan
Mixing up between backdash and Ex Straight is really good for Boxer. This opens the window for his other wake-up options. You really just have to feel out what type of Boxer you are playing. A Boxer that doesn’t backdash or Ex Straight that much is easy prey to meaty low short. If they like to Ex straight a bit more then mix in meaty TK’s and grabs. For backdashers if you can go for more safe jumps and the occasional cross-up. Cross up in general is good because usually Rog will use meter to get away which is still good for you. Less meter for him = less options. Very smart Rogs will usually just wanna block so that when they actually do something you won’t know what to expect. So really your most basic go to options on wake-up will be meaty TK or meaty low short if you really be aggressive. If you just wanna make him use meter, then cross him up although he might just try to TAP to get away, but that’s ok since it puts him far away from you then you can zone.
In corner
Rog dies just like the rest. He may feel pressured to do more ex headbutts since he really wants you off of him so be ready for this. Don’t cross up obviously because you wanna keep him here. If he has no meter then low short is your friend.
Rufus
Ex Messiah - Hits on frame 11. Bait for low short. Normally this move wouldn’t be a threat but it has 3 follow ups that open the door for mindgames and mix-ups. His flip kick follow up is basically a dragon punch. It can beat a TU clean if you try to reversal or trade at best if you do it late. EX TU can beat it though as a reversal. The flip kick is very unsafe at -18 on block. The overhead follow up and the sweep follow up are both safe on block, but you can reverse TU to catch them. Or Rufus may do nothing in which case if you were expecting a flip kick you won’t punish him in time. EX messiah is -14 on block, but the 3 way follow up creates an option tree where Rufus isn’t screwed completely if you block the Ex messiah. So what to do if you bait it successfully. Well if you do a reversal jab TU probability states you have a 75% chance of tagging him. If he did overhead, sweep or nothing then you will rock him for it. If he dped after the messiah you will eat it. So should you TU or should you not TU is what it comes down to. Watch your opponent carefully, pay attention to their meter and their health and make your decision. If you have EX meter you should beat everything but overhead I think because Rufus rises a little too high and too far forward.
Snake Strike - All Snake Strikes are airborne on frame 1 and Ex Snake Strike is invincible on frames 1-10. So this will avoid meaties, but its really more of a desperation type of move. If you do a meaty this won’t actually hit you and then you can just punish Rufus on his recovery. It may catch you off guard the first few times you see it but it’s nothing to fear.
Super - None of these can tag you if you go for the meaty low short but the light punch one can if you aren’t frame perfect. They are all -9 on block.
Ultra - Hits on frame 9. -13 on block. What else need be said? Low short bait here folks.
Backdash - Frame 27. Little distance. You could OS this with a TU off a safe jump or off low short doesn’t matter which. Hell, you could punish it on reaction as well if you are fast enough. Just roundhouse him if you see it in time.
Best options
Ex-Messiah
Basic Gameplan
Low short times infinity. He can’t stop it. The most he can do is backdash away and hope you don’t catch his backdash recovery. Smart Rufus players will just block. Mix up with overheads and meaty grabs to keep them on their toes. Remember you don’t always have to try to figure out what Rufus will do to punish Ex Messiah. Just getting him to waste meter is great too. He can FADC dashback with EX Messiah to make it safer, but it’s not safe at all. You can catch him with a reversal TU. If he dashes forward it’s actually safe and you can’t punish but he DID waste a fuckton of meter so that’s a small victory in of itself. If he has no meter then you can just meaty tk frame trap and force him to deal with your pressure and mix-ups.
In the corner
He has nothing. If you corner him it should be over. Only a lucky Ex Messiah can really save him.
That’s it for those two. Hope this helps.
Also it’s a little late, but Happy New Year Sagat army.
its because the hit freeze, on low short should add 8 frames
on mediums should be 10 and fierce should be 12
unless theres some hitfreeze on absorb too but i dont recall there being any
I’ve only read a couple pages of this thread so excuse me if someone already posted about this.
As all SF4 plays know, trading with Sagat’s TU results in free ultra or at least an extra hit. I was playing casuals after a tournament yesterday and found out something pretty neat.
If Akuma is jumping forward or straight up and shoots a fire ball you can TU and it will connect with Akuma and the fireball will stuff your TU which will lead you into ultra. I was getting this about every time he would jump forward or straight up.
I catch the most heat for playing Sagat because of trading into ultra, but until its fixed I’m just playing to win and playing the game to the fullest.
Maybe there is a trick to getting trades to happen more often with other characters as well?
you can just time it in a certain way to get trades more often
i dont really know how to explain it, I just do it. it depends on their jumpin too.
i tend to get trades pretty often if i’m using the delayed tiger uppercut vs. crossups thing.
You can’t fix what isn’t broken. If your opponent jumps at you when you got full ultra, they are asking for it.