that is an amazing use of low kicks and tks!
Some random shit before I talk about the next character Sagat completely molests on wake-up.
Cross up OS low short.
So basically when you cross up with jump short (j.lk) and your opponent blocks there is enough time for them to grab you if you try to do a low short. So do OS tech instead which is cr.lk+lp. If they grab you will tech, if they block or get hit just go into your pressure string/hit confirm as per usual.
Ok, so with that out of the way let’s talk about the next character. This one is pretty braindead. If you thought Claw was free on wake-up YJDK.
Blanka
Wake-up Options
EX Vertical Roll - Hits on frame 4. Has invincibility on frames 1-5. -21 on block. -17 on hit. So massive disadvantage even when this hits. And since it doesn’t knockdown, Sagat gets a free Kara TU no matter what. So Blanka used a stock just to get punished and put back on the ground. Plus even a jab TU does more then EX Vertical Roll so damage wise Sagat comes out on top considering especially since you will use the Fierce TU and you have more health then Blanka as well. Nothing to fear here unless you have very little health left.
Backdash - 26 frames in total. Distance of 1.2. A good backdash. You can’t OS this of course. If you notice Blanka using this more then it’s time to throw in more cross-ups into the mix. They will either land meaty, reset him, or you land next to him for a free combo or grab during his recovery. Either way it’s all good for you.
Super - Hits on frame 5. Invincibility on frames 1-5. You can’t meaty this. You will get hit of course. -34 on block though so if you bait this and block then you get a TU, Kara TU, or low forward xx TU. The timing on the latter can be a bit tricky so I would just TU and get his ass on the ground with some solid damage. If you cross up this will whiff completely. You won;t really be able to punish in this case but at least you made him waste meter.
Ultra - Hits on frame 4. Invincibility on frames 1-27. -41 on block. If you block this crouching you can get double high step kick easily as long as you do it right after block stun ends. You can also do FA lvl 2, low strong xx fierce TU for solid damage or just dash in and low strong xx fierce TU if you don’t think you can nail the FA. Crossing up makes this whiff. This will beat meaties.
Best Options
Backdash
Basic Gameplan
Meaty that shit all fucking day. He can’t stop you unless he has Ultra or Super and a smart Blanka won’t risk that. And even if he does so what? More then likely you will have life lead in which case you can eat the Ultra and then just continue with the match as per usual. Sagat has massive advantage on Blanka and this is a huge part of it. If he ex vert balls you just Kara TU him. He wasted meter and know he is back on the ground. If Blanka starts backdashing more and you know he isn’t afraid to throw out Super/Ultra on wake-up just start crossing up more. Wake-up heavily favors Sagat and cross-up beats or avoids everything Blanka has. General rule of thumb is when Blanka doesn’t have Ultra or full Super you need to meaty low short alot and go for tick throws as well as meaty TK traps. Of course mix in your hit confirms and overheads to keep him guessing. When he has full Super or Ultra then you need to start baiting a bit more and crossing up a bit more to draw those moves out then punishing if you blocked them. BTW Blanka can be his with cross up TK. It’s easy to hit him with this too. So throw this in the mix since he is gonna be blocking all day on wake-up anyway for the most part.
In the corner
Blanka without Ultra or full Super has limited options in the corner. He can ex rainbow roll to get out of corner, and it has invincibility on frames 1-22 and he can direct it’s trajectory. The move itself isn’t threatening though. He may try to cross up up with it, but if he is smart he will just try to escape to the other side of the stage. Vert Ball will go nowhere if blocked or if it hits so you don’t even need to Kara TU to punish. He can’t backdash either. If he has Ultra or Super he is gonna wanna use them. Be ready for them and try to draw them out for a free punish. But if you get Blanka in the corner the fight should be over.
umm u kinda forgot about like…the only thing good blankas ever do on wakeup/in the corner…ex rainbow roll…lol i think thats what its called…
My bad yeah I did. I was thinking along the lines of attacks. But yeah good escape for the corner. I’ll add it.
Didn’t think any pros read this forum lol. What do you think of the info floe?
i lurk occasionally was just skimming stuff and saw that you had “if you get blanka in the corner it should be over” so i decided to say something hehe…theres some good info on here but too much shit to get threw to find it lol…i’d write some stuff but im too lazy/dont think anyone would read it/random 09ers would talk shit and say im wrong =( but you and alioune (sp?) i think his name is post some good info sometimes =)
Close st mp beats it everytime like many chars can :razz:.Yeah thats my name , we used to play zero 3 on ggpo (european gen :p)
Amazing stuff in here, great job Emblem and others. I have been trying to absorb as much as I can im almost saturated w/ the info lol. Just wanted to say thanks for the great work. Also a suggestion, would it be possible to put the wake-up option stuff in the match-up thread? Comes in handy when trying to find the info quick.
Good info on blanka emblem. But how do you shut down all the Electric wake ups?.
correctly spaced/timed meaty attacks straight up beat electricity
Let’s keep the ball rolling. This is a match-up I have been studying my ass off since I lost to Andre’s Dic months ago in tourney and recently I made some breakthroughs.
Dictator
Wake-up options
Ex Scissor Kick - 13 frame start-up. Invincibility on frames 1-12. -8 on block. Easily baited with meaty low short. After that you can just go for the reversal TU for some easy respectable damage or go for low strong xx TU. Your timing needs to be good but you have 3 frames of leeway so you would really need to be slow to mess up this punish.
Ex Psycho Crusher - 14 frame start-up. Invincibility on frames 1-13. -16 on block. This is one of the breakthroughs I was talking about. This is baitable with meaty low short and then you can punish this with kara TU on block. The timing is strict. You have to be frame perfect, but honestly with a little practice it’s not that hard. I can do it consistently online and offline is even easier. Just bait with meaty low short and bloc So with this Dic just wasted meter only to be put back on the floor and eat 170 damage. Vicious.
Ex Headstomp - Another breakthrough. 22 frame start-up. The wiki doesn’t specify his invincibility frames, but he seems to have caught alot and they seem to last until the very end of his jump arc. But since this move has such a long start-up it’s easily avoided. Just f+hk when you see it and you will recover before him for a free punish. Just grab him since it would be really hard to fuck that up. For some reason when Dic lands from a whiffed air special his hitbox extends really far letting you grab him from greater range then normal.
Ex Devil’s Reverse - Start-up frames are 13. Also has a a good amount of invincibility like Ex Headstomp. Looks similar at their start-up but if he doesn’t land after you f+hk and you see his arm fly out you can TU him as he comes down or backdash or even FA him if he didn’t do the double hit Ex punch version on the way down. It’s a slightly better escape tool then the Ex Headstomp IMO, but not by much.
Teleport - Total frames are 42. Invincibility on frames 1-29. And yet another breakthrough. You can punish this on reaction with a f+hk or even a kara TU if you are fast enough. You would use the f+hk for the kara since it’s faster. But still f+hk by itself does 140 damage which is solid. You can also OS his teles with OS kara TU or OS mk TK. I usually don’t though since he could mix it up with ex crusher but if he has no meter and no Ultra I say go for it. He can’t do anything about it in this scenario. He would just have to block or eat the TK.
Super - LK version can hit you the other versions can’t. LK version has 6 start-up frames with 7 frames of invincibility. MK version has 12 start-up frames with 10 frames of invincibility. HK version has 16 start-up frames with 12 frames of invincility. They are all -27 on block so your go to punish would be low strong xx TU. If you have Ultra then tack on FADC f+hk Ultra. Last hit of Super hits low so remember that.
Ultra - Hits on frame 12. Has 16 frames of invincibility. This can’t hit you. This is -36 on block so you have years to punish. You could raw Ultra just make sure to delay it so you get the full Ultra and don’t put him into juggle state right away. You can also FA lvl 2 low strong xx TU. Nothing to fear from this move on wake-up.
Backdash - An ok backdash. 25 frames in total. Distance of 1.0. You can OS this with TU, but it would only cover the option of his backdash. Not worth it IMO. Anyway, he doesn’t go far with this. Still close enough for you to low short, TK for pressure or just dash back in his face for pressure. It’s nothing to be too concerned with, but if you are playing a backdash happy Dictator and he has no meter feel free to OS TU him or mix in some more cross-ups.
Best options
Backdash and Teleport
Basic gameplan
Make him fear the meaty low short. Once Dictator sees you punish an Ex crusher with Kara TU he will shit his pants. That kind of fear makes people second guess themselves and when that happens the fight is already over. If he doesn’t have meter start whoring grabs on wake-up as well as meaty TK traps to gain momentum and create guessing games. Once he has meter that’s when you bring out the meaty low shorts and punish w/e he does. Once he gets wise to this you can get a little riskier and go for grabs and overheads on his wake-up even when he has meter. Always be cautious though since he can choose to do a reversal and either hit you or escape if you grow too complacent or predictable. He can super you if he has the meter for it, but a good Dictator probably won’t wanna take such a huge risk AND lose all their meter for nothing if it gets blocked.
In the corner
No backdash, no teleport, and you shut down his other options as well. He will want out of that corner and he may even be willing to eat a kara TU for it and just go for a Ex psycho crusher. Hey man w/e free damage is always good right? Anyway, he will probably wanna block it out for the most part and be ready to tech. Counter this with overheads as well as tk traps. Try to draw out a reversal so you can punish. He will want to blow through your strings so he can escape the corner. Leave intentional gaps for him to get through and if he takes the bait, punish him hard. If he wants to just block then keep working him with grabs and overheads as well as tk pressure for chip damage. Dictator like all other chars with poor wake-up, dies a slow horrible death in the corner if you play your cards right.
I have a question Emblem: why in this writeups about wakeup options you rarely talk about safejumps and how it applies to the matchup… some of that could be useful on some of these characters
my friend that plays zangief who is much better than me read this thread told me that’s something you’re not talking about that perhaps you should. i wish i had more free time at the moment so I could contribute myself on that subject and do the research
still good stuff man I really am happy with this… I had some trouble with Mr. Dic myself.
little tidbit/gimmicks I found out in casuals today though while fucking around. I did this jokingly but it might be worth posting: If someone is trying to cross you up you can put in an ultra in the direction they came from on their way towards you and then delay until the LAST POSSIBLE MOMENT WHEN YOU ARE ABOUT TO GET HIT and then the ultra autoturnsaround and hits them on the way down out of their crossup. If they’re doing ambiguous crossups (ZANGIEF) then they might not know which way to block when they land either if they COULD block it. If they’re higher up in the air (not Zangief’s lk crossup), then it’ll beat it every time. It’s not something that’s a solid strat but it’s something I might do if
- I know the player I’m playing against is prone to being phased by things, like get angry/raged
- I’m ahead in rounds/games
- and I’m losing this particular round.
- they’re doing ambiguous crossups and they don’t even know which side they’re crossing up (LOL). seriously I did it several times tonight after it bizarrely worked and when it happens it looks the same every time because of the zoom in
- since i’m probably going to lose anyway I want to save EX for next round
- not enough health to allow a trade to happen since I will die
- near the corner. For some reason if the ultra hits like this you get FULL ULTRA IN THE CORNER. I don’t know why.
If I’m playing against emotional players it can be very effective, tend to see something like that and just start frothing at the mouth “SAGGGOTTTTTTTTTT” instead of concentrating on the match at hand…
another mash-out-ultra type gimmick:
if you are playing against a gief that times his antiairs correct 100% of the time against jumpins (like he’s crouching and “late”), so that NOTHING beats it, you cannot hit his head with j.mp, you cannot hit him with neutral jump mk, nothing. Well, if you are a little bit farther out, but not too much, just a few pixels, and you do an empty jump, and then land, you land a little faster so you have time to land and immediately ultra or EX Tiger Upper despite the fact that he’s doing antiair at the normal otherwise CORRECT timing to antiair. it looks like sagat lands INSIDE the lariat arms, it must be on like frame 1 or 2 of the lariat startup or so that you land.
This will NOT work if they’re timing their lariat just like most random giefs do like “oh you jumped i’m going to hit lariat as soon as I see it”. in that case just beat the lariat with j.mp lol. this looks really weird of the way sagat is just doing a move while standing inside the lariat
I see videos of long island joe doing “random” ultras at weird times (like vs. Valle at Bar Fights) so I decided to experiment in casuals to see what kind of weird shit I could do… this is the type of thing that will only work once, but PROBABLY will work the first time. and maybe another time 3 years down the road. but not consistently obv.
shit will make a lesser player terrified to play normally against you and then after when you play solid they will not understand the switch from gimmick to solid… might be worth pulling out your ass when you’re playing against someone who doesn’t think you would stoop to that level of idiotic gimmickyness. sometimes I throw this sort of thing in at the tournament though. When I’m in top 16, the fool doesn’t expect to get ultra’d like this. he expects SOLID strats. you can play around expectations like this… and then everyone sees it and your next match fools are blocking and shit because they SAW you be gimmicky and then you just got in their head, they start playing overly cautious
I wish I had more to share than shitty gimmicks though
it’s hard to figure out solid strats. mad respect to those that do, I copy those for sure…
damn. i guess i gotta go into training mode…
Does Sagat even really have safe jump set-ups? It doesn’t seem like his move list sets up for them really well other then sweeps and throws in the corner. I dunno if he would have enough time to try a safe jump after a throw and you kara tk after them to close in.
That’s the main reason I’m not talking about it, BUT my friend and training partner is coming over tonight and I will use him as a test dummy for safe jump set-ups.
random info: sagat’s focus attack makes him taller
has slight effect like some attacks like ken’s air hurricane kick can do an extra hit on the way down sometimes
I did find a safe jump set-up off forward throw, but Sagat can’t OS off of it without meter that well since he is a little too far with this set-up. The set-up is easy. After a forward throw just dash twice then hold forward so you walk a tiny bit then jump forward with j. mk. Vs Sagat if he TUed you should see him go low for it but by the time it reaches you, you are already able to block. Sagat’s safe jump is best used against himself ironically. There really isn’t much need vs chars with super poor reversals. If you have meter he can OS ex TS or ex Knee to catch people. Better to Ex TS imo in order to catch the chars with good backdashes.
vs Sagat, Cammy, Viper, Fei and Gen it’s good stuff in general. Just safe jump and block.
You can’t safe jump shoto’s obviously.
Also certain moves are airborne on frame 1 which adds a different dynamic to Sagat’s wake-up game since those moves avoid meaties. So I will go back and edit my wake-up game posts to account for that.
Safe_jump option select vs chars like boxer are really important
He’s a character with a good backdash so without Ex you are not gonna be hitting that. But yeah a smart Boxer will backdash more then headbutt and that’s where the safe jump comes in.
Anything you wanna add Alioune?
There are some corner specific option select safe jump vs boxer , jump hk will crossup if boxer tries a reversal(that will whiff) in the corner and u can get him with TU or ultra. It works also outside corner but a bit harder.TU late > boxer’s backdash .
there are soo many safe jump set ups with sagat. he has quick get up safe jump set ups, back throw safe jump, corner throw safe jump, etc. reading if sagat had any safe jump set ups was real sad to see.
here’s a freebie…
quick get up safe jump:
TU FADC F+RH, jump RH.
as stated, it wont work on shotos, but anyone not 3 frame anti air will work. if they dont quick get up, oh well…you can meaty attack, throw, any sorta oki you wish using.
k, bye bye.
Yeah, I wasn’t even thinking of safe jumping vs quick get-ups but it seems you can. Well technically a well timed cross-up is also a safe jump now that I am thinking about it. So that’s something to think about/consider. But the stun is ass on that. I think I wanna mess with neutral jump MK as a possible safe jump normal. It’s just a really good normal in general with high priority.