Ill try and work on that tomorrow before work, not sure how it would work on bigger members ie. abel, rufus, gief, and gat but it would be interesting to find out.
I still have to work on the timing for wake up cross up TK, right now im at like ohhh 0%
random tidbit:
the freeze time is move specific and may be different on counterhit. also your opponent can have different freeze time than you do with some moves. this is separate from normal hitstun when itās on the opponent but can still be considered basically the same.
if iām bored enough iāll check the data files on the PC version in a little bit but it requires using a hex editor and a lot of trial and error
Corrected. Iāve done the Kara Uppercut/TU to pass by projectiles many times and hit the character throwing the projectile. Works much better with Fwd+rh since the Kara is quicker. End of story stop making a fool of yourself fortheloveofmoney.
Wowā¦ You canāt be serious? Your an idiot manā¦ you have allot to learnā¦ I donāt want to argue with you because itās pity stuffā¦ but anyone i mean anyone who say a LK kara go through a fireball is retardedā¦:lame:
lol, Troll much guy?
Can you please go some where else, its getting old.
Troll? LOL! stay scrubby! peaceā¦
Kara dpās go through fireballs. i just wanted to know if it went through low fireballs. It absolutely goes through fireballs without a doubt. Try it yourself.
I think majority of people here think it goes through a fireball but it really doesnāt. You definitely get stuff by a down forward, if the upper cut doesnāt start up. Depending on your timing it will get stuffed with any single move. I guess the real question is does the uppercut go through the fireball? The answer is Yes! Moving forwardā¦ if yall think it goes through a fireball thatās fine with meā¦ but when the game on the line donāt go kara uppercut HAPPY! LOL!
Last warning. Next time I will bring a mod in here.
Hey, thatās a great ideaā¦ cut the BS please and try to stay productive. Thanks 
PGL, yes low tigers as well
so I was watching the grand finals of the korea vs japan with mago and kindevu and had a question. at one point in the match mago locks devus rufus in the corner with stnding short, short tk, standing jab, standing short, short tk. he did like 3 knees i belive. is this a legit block string/frame trap on a cornered rufus?
sorry for typos or other errors im at work on my mobile. didnt want to forget lol
Do you mean at the beginning of the match? I think kindevu made the mistake of blocking highā¦
@emblem Go aheadā¦
FMLā¦ I had the chance to see Kindevu, Mago, etc up close in person, but I decided to go see my GF instead.
http://www.youtube.com/user/showgun00#p/u/6/UM0P1HTI6Hw
There is the link, now after the onslaught of TKās to put him in the corner he uses the above mentioned quite a few times.
Now that Iv watched that segment like 60000 times I think its just the fact he guessed wrong on high low blocks. BUT I obviously cant be certain, can anyone else with a more trained eye shine some light on this.
at first I thought devu might be trying to tech throws using OS but didnt see a counter hit but more than once. So I assume he was trying to tech throws or just jump the hell outa there. Now of course this wouldnt have worked if rufus had EX jesus kick stocked and its apparent he didnt use it after, unless he was baiting it.
Back to the wake-up abuse.
Abel
Wake-up options
Marseille Roll - Frame data varies with button used. LK version has 27 frames total and is hit invincible on frames 5-26. MK version has 30 frames total and is hit invincible on frames 5-29. HK version is 32 frames total and is hit invincible on frames 5-31. EX version has 32 frames total and has hit invincibility on frames 1-31. All versions can be thrown at anytime. So any non ex roll will always lose to meaties. This is a pretty big deal since Iām sure many of us thought all rolls could only be thrown but after going through the data this is not the case. This is Abelās general reversal to get out of tough spots. But itās pretty easy to deal with and it doesnāt actually hurt you, it just returns the match to neutral. Nothing to really fear here. A meaty TK can beat non ex rolls but timing is crucial.
Tornado Throw - All non ex versions are throw invincible on frames 1-6. EX version is hit invincible on frames 1-6. All versions grab on frame 5. Again another interesting discovery is made when we look at the data. EX TT loses to throws? Pretty crazy if you ask me. So if Abel has meter and you think heās gonna go for EX TT, then you should go for the meaty grab. Also a meaty TK will beat all TTās and EX TT will miss since Sagat is in the air. Timing has to be precise for the meaty TK to be a good option though. Just right so that if Abel decides to block you will still be fairly safe around -2 disadvantage. All versions of TT lose to neutral jump as well then you get a free combo.
EX CoD - Has hyper armor. Hits on frame 16. First hit is -3 on block. This will beat meaties but if you have good reactions you can do another light to hit him out of this or grab him. Or you could just block after the meaty gets absorbed. Itās not terrible effective on well timed meaties but it can catch you off guard if you donāt know how to deal with it. Of course meaty TK will demolish this move since it breaks armor. It will also lose to throws.
Super - Hits on frame 6. Has invincibility on frame 1. LP version is hit invincible on frames 2-7. MP version is throw invincible on frames 2-7. HP version is projectile invincible on frames 2-7. All versions are -32 on block. If you see the flash and you meatied you will be hit with this. If you baited it by doing nothing on wake-up expect the HP version or the LP version. The HP version because most people just instinctively use the heavy version of their super without thinking. The LP version is for the Abelās who actually know their characters and that will usually be the most useful version to do. Both those versions lose to throw so if you see the flash just throw him and you have a 66% chance of being right. Of course you can block and punish but where is the fun in that?
Ultra - Hits on frame 14. Fully invincible on frames 1-5. This is -30 on block. Easily baited with a meaty low short. Just block and punish hard.
Backdash - Total frames is 25. Distance is 0.8. Easily one of the worst backdashes in the game. Abel wonāt do this often, if at all and with good reason. You donāt even need to OS TU/TK this. You could meaty low short then if he does this you could punish on reaction with almost anything. Usually you would just TU or sweep to quickly get him on the ground again. Abel might pull this out of the bag once or twice, but even if you donāt punish it he doesnāt go anywhere so he still has to deal with your pressure game.
Best options
EX TT, EX CoD, EX Roll, block and be ready to tech.
Basic Gameplan
At first glance it seems like Abel has a ton of solid options on wake-up. None of them are as amazing as a srk, but he has a slew of good tools so wake-up shouldnāt be too much of a problem right? Wrong. All of his wake-up options have serious flaws. Most being vulnerable to one type of attack or another or can easily be OSed with meaty low short. All non ex rolls can lose to meaties during the early frames and so does non EX TT. He needs meter to really be able to do anything, but all his meter options flat out lose to throws. Backdash does him no good since it has no distance with the second longest recovery time in the game. Only Sagatās is longer. Super and Ultra are a little too unreliable since they are so unsafe. Abel would need to just be lucky as hell for those to hit or just make a really good guess. If Abel doesnāt have meter he canāt do anything about Sagatās onslaught. He must deal with the frame traps. In cases like this you can actually mix-up more grabs into your game since he will know he has nothing to beat your pressure and he will most likely block. Since you know he must block you can net free grabs alot of the time.
Once Abel has meter nothing changes all that much. All you do now is grab a bit more and meaty a bit less. Grab beats EX TT, EX CoD and EX Roll. And the best part is that if he went for those moves and you grab him out of them he just wasted meter. Less options for him = good for you. You can mix in some meaty TKās occasionally just to keep things fresh and so he doesnāt catch on to you. No need for cross-ups really especially since he can roll out of them. A 3 way guess between meaty low short, meaty grab or meaty TK is all you will really need to seal the deal on wake-up. Of course mix in your hit confirms so you can net that big damage. Also mix in nuetral jumps since it avoids all versions of TT and then Abel has recovery frames for days and you can do w/e you want, but your go to combo would be neutral jump mk low strong xx hp TU.
Smart Abelās will usually wait it out till they see a gap in your pressure and thatās when they will try to bust out an EX CoD, EX, Roll or, EX TT. Be ready for these moments and you can leave intentional gaps to bait these responses and then punish.
Itās pretty interesting to look at Abelās data and realize he is ALOT more free on wake-up then I previously believed. Sagat really just runs train on him when he gets a knockdown.
In the corner
He will probably want to roll alot more so counter that by grabbing more. Other then that he dies here just like anyone else with a poor wake-up.
EDIT
Additional info
Wheel kick - This move is airborne on frame 1, but itās so very unsafe that you really donāt need to worry about Abel doing this ever when you are on top of him during his wake-up. It must be blocked standing and itās a free reversal TU when you block it at close range. It has a lot of start-up so you should be able to react to this with enough practice. Not gonna list any frame data here since every wheel kick is a bit different, but all oyu need to know is that it has noticeable start-up, is air borne on frame 1 and is unsafe on block.
Hey Emblem I just wanted you to know I really appreciate these writeups on wakeup vs. various characters. I know I havenāt been contributing as much to these forums as of late but Iāll try to get some info written down about some stuff done for yāall soon
surprised you didnt know this :o but yeah good shit still on this info
good choice. Unless their autographs are selling for enough to buy a hooker or hundreds of dollars worth of presents that was the right choice.
It was nothing special I think kindevu was just trying to find an option to get out. I think at least one time he might have tried to mash out another snake (he got it out earlier) but it didnāt come out and so he was hit due to auto block disappearing and so he started to opt. to jump out of the set-up instead. But there isnāt any āKNOW ALLā way to tell. He could have tried to backdash too but didnāt get the dash to come outā¦ who knows. My guess though is it was mistake based since there wasnāt a counter-hitā¦ or he simply thought he could walk forward but the taps continued.
I seriously believe that of all the characters in the game, the difference for rufus with and without 1 bar is one of the largest.
and there is no point in risking THROWING abel when you can jump him if you already āknowā heās going to use ANY form of nado throw. but i do agree that its kinda weird they took away throw invincibility on EX version. Wonder if it was just an oversight in the script. And yeaā¦ abel isnāt too hot on wake-up and is pretty much just ASKING to be hurt without EX meter.
I thought I mentioned neutral jump too in my write-up. Ok, lemme plug that in.
Also kind of a shitty discovery but Sagatās OS TK/TU on wake-up doesnāt work on characters with really good backdashes that end in 22 or frames or less. They get away too quick and by the time the TK reaches them they can block. TU whiffs completely. Itās not that big of deal since cross-up beats backdash anyway and crossing up covers alot of options by itself, but I just wanted to let you guys know what I had found out after alot of testing.
So charās like Chun, Rose, Claw, Gen and maybe a few others canāt be OSed this way.
Would never do this in a million years.
Been messing with Sagatās OSās. They do have a use. They are great vs characters that like to teleport. OS TK will auto correct. Use the MK version so it hits on the way down. You can also OS kara TU. Use the jab version. This will also auto correct. It looks cooler and does more damage.
Vs Sim OS TK is the OS of choice. MK version will hit all teleās but wonāt hit him in time if he backdashes. But you will get in his face and do chip damage so you can continue pressure.
HK version wonāt him if he teles backwards but it will hit his backdash.
Vs. Seth Use the HK version. As far as I know you canāt OS Sethās backdash which sucks ass.
Vs Bison you can OS his backdash with TU but for his teles you gotta use TK. I would just stick with OS TK the mk version.