That’s what option select tech is for and it’s my biggest gripe with this game.
To answer your question. Yes. Yes it is possible and it’s fucking STUPID that it’s possible.
Now… you are talking my language. This is what I was leading onto when I asked my initial question a page back.
What do you mean by “option select tech”, though? Doing something like d/b+LP+LK would result in a cr.LK, which would of course get reversed by Ryu’s Shoryuken.
Can you elaborate on this topic? This is one area of my game that needs more work because I feel I am not covering all aspects of it that may be possible.
Well really it’s main use is to allow you to tech while you are in a blocking stance.
Once your reaction gets up there and you see someones hand go out for that throw you’ll be able to tech on reaction around 90% of the time quite easily with option select tech. You just gotta wait for that grab animation and be ready to tech.
This is why so many people are trashing SFIV’s defensive mechanics BTW.
Ever notice in high level matches how rare it is to land a grab? This is why. This shit dumbs down the grapple system since you don’t have to commit to attempting a tech.
Double post. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
*ahem
I’ll continue with discussing wake-up games vs different characters with the meaty low short. Let’s do two characters this time ok?
Vega
Wake-up Options
PPP Backflip - 65 frames in total. Invincible on frames 1-57. You can punish this on reaction, you just need to watch for it. You can Kara TU if you want although your timing must be precise. He is only vulnerable for about 8 frames. IMO it’s easier just to dash up to him then sweep or TU and put him back on the ground. Even if you don’t manage to punish him in time you can easily just dash back in his face and continue pressure with block strings.
KKK Backflip - 42 frames in total. Invincible on frames 1-32. Mush easier to punish since he doesn’t go as far and the frames of vulnerability are 10 with this move. You can punish this on pure reaction as well even if you are sloppy. Just sweep him or TU. Now he’s back on the floor.
Backdash - A great backdash. 22 Frames in total and goes 1.2 distance and the average distance is 0.8/0.9. You aren’t going to be punishing this on pure reaction unfortunately, but Sagat does have his methods. To make a Claw hesitant to backdash just use more cross-ups. If he backdashed then he will either be reset or your cross-up will land deep and you can combo. This will make him want to just stay put next time he gets knocked down. You might be able to option select low poke into TS/TU and the special depends on whether or not he blocked or backdashed. If he blocked you get Tiger shot. If he backdashed you get TU, but this would completely whiff if Vega did a backflip so the low short and wait a split second approach is probably best.
Best options
Backdash
Basic Gameplan
So Vega really can’t hurt you when he is on the floor. He has no hitting reversals. So you can easily set the pace of the match when he is on the ground. Scarlet Terror is a joke. No need to fear it. It will lose to any meaty. If you start out baiting backflips and then sweeping him or comboing to punish it will set a precedent early on and make him much more weary in the future. Usually in this case backdash spam starts up and that’s when you need to start baiting it and punishing or use more cross-ups. Vega can’t do anything about them really. His options are purely defensive in terms of reversals. Remember to not get so caught up in the meaty low short OS. Remember to go for the hit confirm outright occasionally or just go for things like meaty overhead, meaty grab, overhead, TU FADC, etc. Keep him honest by not getting predictable. As always he will expect to get thrown if you abuse meaty low frame traps so after that initial short try mixing it up with something else like a cr.mp tiger shot. If he attempt an OST he will eat the combo. If you have meter you can just throw out a TU after the meaty and blow him away with no risk to yourself if it’s blocked.
In the corner
In the corner screw being predictable. Go for the meaty low short into Sagat’s BnB of low short, low short, low jab, fierce TU. If Vega does anything you can punish it. If he backdashes or back flips just combo him. He will then start to just block it out. So when he starts doing that go for more TK frame traps and mix-up from there. I tend to play straight forward and keep going from one TK trap to the next but he can get away by timing an EX Scarlet Terror during one of the holes in your pressure strings. So be weary of this. As always expect him to be looking for your pattern so he can OST. So when that happens start mixing up when you grab or going for more hit confirms. Generally though if Claw gets cornered the fight should be over. Claw dies here and has no real options other then try to block it out. So essentially he gives up all momentum and he has to pray he gets lucky or that his opponent fucks up. Don’t fuck up and show him that his luck has run out.
EDIT
Ex Scarlet Terror does lose to meaties but since Claw is off the ground on frame 1 it just resets him, he won’t still be on the ground so you can’t combo him. Still a very advantageous situation for you though.
Sakura
Wake-up options
EX Shouken - Hits on frame 12. Invincible on frames 1-13. - 20 on block. This move is similar to Rufus’ EX Messiah. It has amazing invincibility, but it hits really late. Easily baited with meaty low short. After you block punish with low forward > Fierce TU. Good damage and she is on the ground. She can FADC backdash this to stay safe so be mindful of that.
Haru Ichiban - Her super. Hits on frame 7. Invincible on frames 1-13. You need to be perfect to bait this with meaty low short. But if you can do it consistently then props to you. You are an OS low short master. This is -7 on block so low strong > fierce TU will be your punish here.
Haru Ranmaru - Her ultra. Hits on frame 11. Invincible on frames 1-11. -28 on block. Very easy to bait and punish. Just watch her Ultra meter and be ready for it because it will be thrown out sooner or later. If you block then FA lvl2, low forward > Fierce TU is your punisher if you don’t have Ultra. If you do then it’s FA lvl2, Fierce TU FADC f+hk, Ultra.
Backdash - Decent backdash. Distance of 1.0 and a total of 26 frames. You could probably OS this with TU since it doesn’t go that far. Although this backdash isn’t particularly quick, so you could punish on reaction if you pay attention. I would stick with a sweep since it puts her right back where you want her. If you miss your punish or react late that’s ok too. You have plenty of options. TU to blow through anything she might do other then ex shouken of course. You can st.short/low forward , mk TK to apply pressure, dash up and grab her, or stick with Tiger shot zoning. If you are feeling lucky you can throw out an overhead since she will still be in range for that. So even with a backdash Sakura is still in danger since she is still in range of Sagat’s many great options. So even if you don’t punish out right it really doesn’t matter. She still has to contend with Sagat’s control.
Best wake-up options
EX Shouken FADC backdash, backdash
Basic gameplan
Without meter Sakura’s best option is to block it out. Her reversals are baitable and then punishable and her backdash isn’t anything to write home about. She if you abuse tick throw set-ups in your frame traps she will look to tech and reset the match. Either that or backdash out of your pressure and/or mash out an EX shouken after a blocked short in attempt to hit your tick throw attempt. Be aware of these different responses and keep your eye on here meter. Also be aware of reversal super/ultra. Sakura has crap wake-up options and all Sakura players know it. So you need to expect random desperation attacks. If she has no meter then go nuts. She really can’t stop you. Go for hit confirms, meaty TK, wake-up grab, cross ups, all of it. I tend to keep it basic. Hit confirm into TU for good damage and resets the situation. That to me is what you should strive to do. Keep her in that same situation for as long as possible. Once she has meter you will probably want to play it by the book and go for more cross-ups and more low short baits. If the Sakura reads you though, expect bold things like blocking the low short and then attempting to grab you since she knows you expect a reversal EX Shouken. So then you might need to mix things up. It might be risky but you gotta be willing to show her that you aren’t afraid of her meter. Even if it’s not completely true she has to believe that so she respects your game and becomes easier to control. Limiting someone’s options isn’t just about the game’s mechanics. It’s about paralyzing your opponent with a deep fear that no matter what they do you WILL have an answer and to do that you gotta take some risks occasionally.
In the corner
Like most with poor wake-ups, she dies here. She can jump tatsu to escape so you can throw out some hk’s to pin her down and make her weary. You might catch her if you’re lucky. Expect her to be twitchy with those EX Shoukens and wanna throw them out. She wants to get out that corner badly. Also expect neutral jump HK or back jump HK to punish TK attempts. You can draw those out and punish though and a whiffed HK or two will keep her honest. You can play it simple here. Go for hit confirms and basic tick throw set-ups. Sometimes bait as well, but you don’t need to be fancy with it. Play it right and the match should end in short order.
If you guys are curious about the OS wake-up special here is the vid Alioune posted in the Sagat video thread.
[media=youtube]A1SOxi6NfVU[/media]
Any word on what the input to os wake up is? Also PLAY ME ONLINE SOMETIME MENG! I got new chars for you, I love fighting sagat… I need to work out the kinks against him on my secondaries.
There we just played. lololol.
And hey. I even demonstrated the meaty low short bait on you.
Isn’t it hot shit? lolol.
Although Honda is a little better off then most.
Lemme try n explain it again.
[media=youtube]A4kLnSZkc60[/media]
1:34
Mago does max range slk xx TS. Then he does f.RH xx TU FADC and the uppercut goes through the fireball. ive tried it out and it seems to AA if they decide to jumpin after blocking the fireball as well. seems like a perfect setup for a free TU FADC attempt.
ohh You mean Kara uppercut. The way you wrote the post just made it sound confusing. yeah ofcourse it beats out jump ins it is essentially a Tu with more range. What your talking about is a basic option select .
It isnt , it was pure guess .
I figured out that you can FADC out of his kara f.lk and f.hk attacks. At the moment, it seems like a waste of meter but I’m still messing around with it just in case.
I like using it after I block Cammy’s Ultra/Super because sometimes when I try to counter with my Ultra it only hits once or twice and is a huge waste. Then I tried dashing in and doing the Ultra, but I’m not sure that it’s guaranteed. It might be my timing, but I’ve been blocked several times when I tried it this way. So I tried using the f.hk kara to FADC to Ultra and I haven’t been blocked doing it that way. Highly conditional, but I’m stubborn like that.
I was messing around with it online and I was pretty successful against a Ryu. I was just about 2/3rds screen away, he was landing from a back jump and I knew he was gonna throw a fireball. I used the f.lk kara FADC to dash through the fireball and was able to hit the Ultra raw. That’s the only way I can justify using this technique at all, if it allows me to hit a raw Ultra, it’s worth using up the two stocks.
I’m gonna play around with it some more tonight. Forgive me if this isn’t the best thread to post it in, it’s not really a combo so I didn’t feel right putting in the combo thread.
It was also bananas
Ya it’s been posted a few times, not* too *many uses
That’s pretty badass. It’d probably work well with a tiger knee too.
you can also kara tu through the fireball itself and self the cancel for f.rh ultra… but raw ultra is always nice
saw some nice new gimmicks at the arcade the other day
F.rh into ultra.
up close focus attack, dash up buffer ultra, do it if they try to punish.
F.rh into ultra is like the gimmick f.rh into tu but even riskier.
Any kara tiger shot strategies anyone would like to share? During fireball wars when they duck my high tiger shot i usually kara into a low ex tigershot.
err, f.rh unto ultra is like the easiest combo to do out of f.rh. the only combo any easier is 2 f.rhs but i always go for 1 just because it’s safest. Nothing gimmicky at all.
i dont think he’s talking about a combo
:nunchuck:
sounds like some Ken strats…
Emblem you got any wake up tricks against the rest of the cast?
Oh and i was reading the OS wake up special topic and was wondering how you use it.
Since there is a topic on wake ups how does everyone deal with blanka’s electricity wake up Akuma’s teleport.(people with teleports in general).
lots of questions but i just wanna strengthen my game and see how others deal with certain things.
i love f+hk when they jump in for the free ultra. that stops them from trying that shit again.
your not giving him enough credit man. Its saddening :sad: that people think my main is free, which he isnt. I dont blame you though everyone plays the run away game something that is easily destroyed by turtleling because at one point in the the match he is going to have to approach you and most Vega players approach by using a dive attack, df.rh, or a jump in. :shake:. But let me tell you what Vega can do on knock down.
*Vega
Backdash - A great backdash. 22 Frames in total and goes 1.2 distance and the average distance is 0.8/0.9. You aren’t going to be punishing this on pure reaction unfortunately, but Sagat does have his methods. To make a Claw hesitant to backdash just use more cross-ups. If he backdashed then he will either be reset or your cross-up will land deep and you can combo. This will make him want to just stay put next time he gets knocked down. You might be able to option select low poke into TS/TU and the special depends on whether or not he blocked or backdashed. If he blocked you get Tiger shot.*
If he Vega blocks he can use EX Scarlett Terror if he sees the tiger shot animation. thats not as safe as it sounds.
- If he backdashed you get TU, but this would completely whiff if Vega did a backflip so the low short and wait a split second approach is probably best.*
Best options
Backdash*
You forgot blocking. It does not sound good, but its his best option. You really cant punish blocking unless you do meaty over head and he does not react to it. And Sagat has mix up game on wake up is nullified if the player reacts to the moves and not anticipate something
*Basic Gameplan
So Vega really can’t hurt you when he is on the floor. He has no hitting reversals. So you can easily set the pace of the match when he is on the ground. Scarlet Terror is a joke. *
Lies man. Scarlett Terror is not a joke. It’s a really good move. Just because it does not have invul frames does not mean it sucks. If used right, this move can set up wall dive mix ups, df.rh mix up, set up a meaty attack, punish tick throws/command throws, punish FADC cancelled moves, etc. all which lead to more knock downs allowing for more options. Scarlett Terror properties are much better than people give it credit for.
No need to fear it. It will lose to any meaty. If you start out baiting backflips and then sweeping him or comboing to punish it will set a precedent early on and make him much more weary in the future. Usually in this case backdash spam starts up and that’s when you need to start baiting it and punishing or use more cross-ups. Vega can’t do anything about them really. *
Yes he can do something about it. If you cross him up when he is in down back position he can
Use RCF to escape
Use FBA to escape
Dash forward to escape and punish
Use light kick ST to escape it only has 4 frame recovery.
Jump straight up and grab, jn.hk, jn.hp
Use EX Sky High Claw to Punish
Ultra from the opposite wall
If he is on the floor waking up he can time the back dash to where he gets hit in the latter stages of the animation resetting the situation. But other than that on wake up he really cant do anything except look for a back dash opening to reset himself.
His options are purely defensive in terms of reversals. Remember to not get so caught up in the meaty low short OS. Remember to go for the hit confirm outright occasionally or just go for things like meaty overhead, meaty grab
Thats a :nono:. Scarlett Terror counts as an a jump so he cant get grabbed.
In the corner
In the corner screw being predictable. Go for the meaty low short into Sagat’s BnB of low short, low short, low jab, fierce TU. If Vega does anything you can punish it. If he backdashes or back flips just combo him. He will then start to just block it out. So when he starts doing that go for more TK frame traps and mix-up from there. I tend to play straight forward and keep going from one TK trap to the next** but he can get away by timing an EX Scarlet Terror during one of the holes in your pressure strings.** *
he can grab you once the TK is blocked. All he has to do is block standing and grab you.
*
So be weary of this. As always expect him to be looking for your pattern so he can OST. So when that happens start mixing up when you grab or going for more hit confirms. Generally though if Claw gets cornered the fight should be over. Claw dies here and has no real options other then try to block it out. So essentially he gives up all momentum and he has to pray he gets lucky or that his opponent fucks up. Don’t fuck up and show him that his luck has run out.*
Those are lies man lies. He has options to get out. The problem is that the player has to think outside the box about his moves. If Sagat does TU xx FADC i can ST and teleport behind you resetting the situation. Its those small little things that give Vega the advantage he can easily reset the situation allowing him to build momentum.