Taking Sagat to the next level

Ok, so here we go. The format for this will be pretty simple. I will list each character’s wake-up options, what to look for, how to counter it, and the basic mindset you should have vs each character during their wake-up.

Let’s get started.

Rose

Wake-up options

EX Soul Spiral - Invincibility on frames 1-11. Hits on frame 13. Easily baited with meaty low short. Sagat has enough time to block then punish. Punish with low strong xx fierce TU. She can FADC backdash outta this to make it very safe. If she does you can’t punish it so don’t worry about it.

EX Soul Throw - Invincibility on frames 1-6. Grabs on frame 6. Can bait with low short then punish. This will beat a meaty Tiger Knee attempt so be mindful of this.

Aura Soul Spark - Her super. Invincibility on frames 1-8. Hits on frame 9. Since there is one frame where she isn’t invincible and that is the first hitting frame, you could technically hit her out of this and maybe even grab. You could definitely TU her. Still it’s easier to just block. This is safe on block though and she gets massive frame advantage when it’s blocked, so be aware of this. You can’t punish this if you bait it with a meaty low short, but it’s a great way to make her use up all her meter.

Illusion Spark - Her ultra. Invincibility on frames 1-12. Hits on frame 12. Extremely easy to bait with low short. Very punishable on block. If you blocked it point blank then punish with a Kara TU FADC F+hk to Ultra, raw Ultra or dash in and do low strong xx fierce TU.

Backdash - 22 frames in total. Invincibility on frames 1-8. One of the best backdashes in the game. Hard to punish on reaction or really do anything about. If she does this you can do somethings to keep your momentum though. Throw a low shot, stand short xx low shot, do a safe TK, do a lvl 2 FA then dash in for more pressure/mix-ups or do a normal dash in and grab/poke. If you wanna play it safe because you fear a random EX spiral or Ultra then just block. You can also jump in if you think she won’t expect it after her backdash. If you think she will backdash on her wake-up start doing more cross-ups or if you are feeling lucky you can anticipate this and go for a kara TU. You CAN hit her out of her backdash of course but usually you will just reset her since most of the attacks you have that are fast enough are normals and won’t do much damage unless you nail her with a low fierce or something like that. You could sweep her but you would have to anticipate her backdash and your timing would have to be perfect.

Safest options

EX Soul Spiral FADC backdash, backdash, Aura Soul Spark, block then be ready to option select tech.

Basic gameplan

So this is pretty simple but you still have to be cautious since she does have reversals that can hurt you if your timing sucks. Pretty much everything she has loses to low short. At most all she can do is try to run with a backdash or get you off of her with her super. If your timing is decent with your meaties then you don’t have to worry about those. If you successfully force a reversal just block it and punish.

You will need to watch Rose’s meter of course. If she has no meter she will most likely backdash or block on wake-up. If she has EX but no ultra then try to draw out that EX spiral for some free damage. If she has Ultra then again try to draw it out for that free punish. Now a Rose that is aware of her poor wake-up will usually just backdash most of the time. So you will want to use more cross-ups in this situation but always watch your opponent and their tendencies so you can make the most out of it.

You will need to be on point with your hit confirms so you can recognize when it hits or is blocked so you can maximize your damage potential. If your poke is blocked you usually want to go for the throw so you can reset the situation. A good Rose will know this so you will need to be ready for a throw tech attempt, EX Spiral, Ultra, or backdash. Once they know you are basing your gameplan around that first short they will block it and try to be random after that first blocked short. So in that situation always remember to mix it up. Start grabbing on wake-up, doing meaty TK’s or crossing up and even empty cross ups to grab or low short hit confirm.

Generally though make her afraid of that short first. Make her know that if she tries to reversal it won’t work. This way she will be too afraid and then you get easy damage by doing simple things like grabbing on wake-up or short short overhead.

The Corner

If she is in the corner you can rely more on your low short. She can’t backdash and she knows that a reversal will get her killed. More then likely she will block it out and try to weather your storm. I won’t lie. Getting Rose in this situation usually means she is done or at the very least you can gain a sizeable lead before she manages to break away.

Ok, so what do you guys think?

BTW I will do Vega next.

Alrite mate how about this… you got any videos of your sagat? could you post one please and then im sure we will be able to tell you what your doing right and wrong, and what you need help with. ( recent one would be better).

here are a couple vids of me and a friend playing some casuals. i dont have too many vids online. thanks.

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and emblem nice info on rose. def gunna help.

A meaty c.lk is so much more exciting that hanging back with a meaty LTS. I want to learn to make my Sagat more aggro.

After meaty LTS. Does f.RH xx TU FADC beat out most options? Ive been messing around with it and it seems to go through fireballs and beat out jumpins when spaced properly.

I’ve lost count of the ways I’m confused by your post.

Lol troll??? :wonder:

Emblem, how exactly do you go about knowing if you performed a meaty correctly (one lingering active frame)? How do you work to get that timing down?

I would also like to know the answer to that.

Depends on the meaty but basically find a 1-frame link out of it.

Like for Sagat’s overhead I believe if you hit meaty then you can link a s.lk after. (confirmed works. 150 damage yay!! Too far to TU after :crybaby:)

Acctually, looking at the frame data, Sagat’s overhead is active for 5 frames, which means hitting on the 5th frame ups the advantage on hit from 2+ to 6+, meaning you can combo a standing jab, or any other 6 frame normal. So you need to try 6 frame normals to know for sure but if you can link a 5 frame normal (s.lk would be perfect) after that’s pretty good too.

Wow, after a overhead you can link s.lk LTS FADC c.mp TU for 371 damage, and another knockdown. On block you have 1 frame of advantage… and the whole combo is so quick and disorienting if they block it high, it’d be perfect opportunity for a throw. This seems potentially great.

Meh. It’s hard man but you know you got it right when you do it over a waking Viper and she does her reversal TK and you are bale to block it in time. You have to do it perfectly in this case or you eat the TK. Same thing vs Elf if he does wake-up Ultra. To be able to avoid that you gotta do it perfectly then hold up to jump.

For the most part you just gotta feel it out.

I’m an ST head so meaties are second nature for me, but if this is your first SF shit could be tough.

Go into practice mode, pick Sagat, and record him doing a meaty cr.LK on C.Viper after a knock down. If done perfectly, Sagat will be able to block the HP Thunder Knuckle, which hits on the 7th frame, because his cr.LK recovers in 6 frames.

Speaking of meaty attacks and wake ups, EmblemLord, any option selects for Sagat? Anything to punish backdashing opponents? Block reversal attacks? There must be something!

Think about it. OS sweep abuses the rapid fire lights. Sagat has none. So he can’t do that unfortunately.

The only real option select he has is OS jump in DP. Basically you jump in with a normal and then buffer a DP. If you hit nothing with your normal your DP will come out. If you do hit them or they block it then your DP doesn’t come out then you can continue pressure or mix-up or w/e.

All shoto type character’s have that one BTW.

Well…he MIGHT have others but I honestly don’t think so.

Edit: Ha. I’m dumb. He does in fact have a few more.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ilovethisgame75#p/u/13/3sUMpIqp114

Well technically the kara shot is an option select…but I honestly never thought of that way. It’s not super dangerous really and there are many ways to deal with it.

It is … super dangerous :smokin: , and this is just one particular one . Combined with low-ts/ kara-high-ts option-select and other stuff its really hard to get close to sagat .

Yep. Emblemlord watch Magos new video in the 3 on 3 tournament v Cantonas Zangief , you will see this high /low ts option select .

Err, far s.lk is 6 frame start up… meaning it only connects off overhead if you get a perfect meaty on the last frame. So on a waking opponent, best way to practice meaty overheads is to link into far s.lk, which can lead to some great damage.

Oh, yeah I knew that.

By dangerous I was more talking along the lines of like…Geif level option selects. His shit is just stupid.

Sagat’s really aren’t like that. But that’s ok. He is zoning character and this lets him do what he does even better.

Thanks, guys.

Is it possible to break throws on reaction when my opponent is waking up? Here is what I mean. I have Ryu knocked down and I know that either a Shoryuken or a throw may be coming. If Ryu throws a Shoryuken, I block and punish. However, if he decides to throw, is it humanly possible to react to it and tech it?