T8: Games/Rules Discussion

Regional Matchmaking Canada
121

Right, and I also think that console people who say “my way or I don’t join” is completely wrong. I’m not defending for those kind of people. I’m just trying to say that macros do not make things that much easier for everyone, if that was the case, then everyone would be using macros.

I think that allowing macros just would be the best thing for all the T tourneys, because it allows everyone to have the freedom to choose how they want to play the game. I just don’t think that “it’s not the way the game should be played” is a valid excuse because it’s actually in the game, and NOT as a glitch. For a console game, I think that because not everyone plays on a stick, that they allowed these macros.

I think it should be “Everyone plays on sticks”, or “everyone can use anything they want + in game macros”. I don’t think it’s fair at all to console players to say “hey, you can use a pad all you want, but you can’t use macros”. They might as well just use the stick.

But I also think that it should be the way for all the official tourneys. As far as I know, XvSF isnt’ an official tourney, so they can make whatever rules they want. But for official tourneys, I don’t think the way it is right now is fair to everybody. Just my opinion though.

122

Please, anyone who looks for a stick can find one, and some are easily affordable. Although now you add the “sturdy” part, I think its fair to say one doesn’t need the best stick in the world just to get practice on it, especially as we’re currently just talking about hitting three buttons at the same time.

I’m not being naive, you’re just making excuses.

123

I got the game to play around with for fun on my computer. I never intended to work super hard at it and want to go to tournaments. I just play the game for fun. I didn’t want to spend money on a stick and I happend to like playing on a keyboard. Who the fuck cares WHAT the reason is. I play on a KB… its not like I can’t use a stick at all. I just don’t think you can force people to use one in a console tourny. Sure you were gonna be allowed to use keyboards and pads but with no 3p/3k? Get outa here… thats just retarded.

BTW this is pointless. Macros are gonna be allowed. w00t

124

wut is a macro?

No seriously, no macros on keyboards? Some keyboards doesnt even allow you to press more than 4-5 keys at the same time so it would suck for them when trying to do a super or something.

And yes FRC is hard to do without a macro…Get a bigger thumb mhuaha

125

It was your decision to use a pad for an arcade game. Why should you get an advantage while the rest have to play it normally? Its an obvious advantage but you don’t really care.

Oh yeah, like sapphire said, you don’t have to push all 3 buttons at once to get a rc/frc out. The engine has windows in which you can mash in the buttons and still get what you want.

This “I don’t have a stick” bullshit really doesn’t fly here seeing how one can be purchased for less than $50. If you think its a waste of money to get one, then I think its a waste for you to be in a -COMPETITIVE FIGHTING GAME TOURNAMENT-

marvel pad players do it all the time and marvel is way faster than gg. Instead of crying, they adapt and make the best out of it.

There are more than enough resources on this site and on the net on where to get a stick. A cheap stick doesn’t mean its not a sturdy one. You can also opt to mod/build your own stick. Please don’t kid yourself on this. Also, about the money bit, refer to my “bullshit” section above.
I find it very hard to belive that a whole section of a fighting game community cannot get their hands on 2 sticks.

Try going to any gg console tourny on the east coast (the coast with the best players mind you) and try and use a macro. When you do, count how long it takes for you to get your ass dq’ed. you could also tell them that it evens the playing field and watch them look at you like if you had the plague.

See this is the 2nd time you wrote shit like this.
Do you really think its all up to him?
Sidestepping the one who sapphire asked run the tounry and then giving sapphire orders isn’t helping you and your macro plea buddy. Really now. I could just run it myself and say “Well I think pad play is really stupid for competitive games so I’m going to ban all pads for slash and ac”. What would you do? would you give me the “blah blah support the scene” bit? Cuz that wouldn’t work on me cuz that line is incredibly hypocritical coming from you and any orbit gg player.
Btw I do think that way about pads but I’m not gonna just through up my opinion and think its above everyone else like you do.

The only thing that should allow some sort of macro is a keyboard. Thats a horrible tool play play any type of fighting game and has the player at a disadvantage no matter which way you look at it.
The way I see it is:
The game (xvsf) is very old and has only one perfect/near perfect port (Sega Saturn I believe), so it makes it tough to practice.
A keyboard requires alot more effort to do…well everything. Even allowing 3k/3p, the keyboard is still at a disadvantage.
Also, its a friggin keyboard for christ sakes. It would be hella funny to see someone take a tool thats not meant for fighting games and make something out of it without giving themselves a huge benefit

126

Try this on for size:

Xmen tournaments that have been run at evo are all on arcade. Usually Cigarbob’s cabinet.

And guess what.

with NO macros.

Well, the rest of us are playing for pride and to figure out who number 1 is. This is serious shit. If you’re playing just for kicks what the fuck do you care?

I thought my boi Shiro was running this shizzit. Did you guys ask what he thinks?

How about, if Ottawa doesn’t compete, you’re losing 10+ people?

127

Hey, if you don’t care enough to buy a stick, that’s fine. I feel the same way. But don’t complain to everyone else that the tools you picked to use aren’t up to the job if you want to enter a tournament.

128

It’s actually quite valid to say that street fighter games were meant to be played on a stick.

Anyone who’s been playing street fighter for a while knows this as truth. The reason being that for a long time street fighter games were designed and released in arcades first. The button layout and stick was also designed specifically for street figher games. It was the only game to use 6 buttons in that layout.

This is why consoles are ports of the arcade game. Game producers took the arcade game and translated it to console.

The added functionality of allowing macros was to make games more marketable to the general consumer. It descreases the amount of execution and dexterity required. You might still think you are playing the same game, but you are not.

Pulling off anything that requires hard execution AND timing allows for a lot of mistakes. This is why people practice execution for countless hours. You might think that pressing 1 button instead of 3 is not a very big difference, but you’re quite wrong. Especially on american sticks (ones without the ergonomic japanese button layout) you have to contort your hand in weird ways to get the airdash -> short for example. Doing this repeatedly and consistently can be pretty tiring. Doing this repeatedly and consistently in tight timing/pressure situations is where mistakes come in. Also, doing this quickly in any situation, ie when your hands are out of position can be difficult too. This is why people who play marvel and can air dash without any problems will miss it more in xmen - the added button makes it slightly different, and a slightly different practiced skill.

Arguments pointing out that if you are better you should win anyway are ridiculous statements. They are an immature way to try to get someone to agree to terms they would not normally agree on.

Saying that allowing for macros will allow for a bigger tournout is another riduculous statement. This is a competetive event. Handicaps should not be given. The point of a tournament is to compete, not to allow handicaps so that players can join in on an experience.

So yes, sticks is the way street fighter was MEANT to be played. This is an absolute fact. What is also true however, is they CAN be played on pad or a keyboard. In my opinion street fighter tournaments should not HAVE to accomodate for pad/keyboard. But if that is your preferred way of playing than that is up to you. However, this is a handicap you impose on yourself. You cannot enter a tournament and expect exceptions to be made to make things easier on you. This is why in my opinion sticks only is the best way to go. This is how the game was originally designed. If it was sticks only there would be no question about macros.

It also saddens me to see something that i’ve grown up with since I was young change so much. You are the reason why one of my favourite distractions is slowly disappearing. You are the reason why arcades all around the world are shutting down. In writing this post I’ve realized why I dislike consoles so much. They killed the arcade.

129

Guys it’s not really worth it.
It’s their tournament : let them do what they want. It’s fustrating trying to cope with the lack of logic behind it and some of the comments initially made but why let it get to us this much? It doesn’t seem we have much say in the matter anyway…yeah noone’s really going to want to go for xvsf but let’s not threaten them with that please. They have the right to make up whatever rules they want. It’s our choice whether we want to participate in their events.
At least the other games won’t have similar rules…I’m sure we can find solace in that.

130

sigh why am I here?

3P and 3K on keyboard in XvSF will be allowed. There will be no other macros allowed within this game and no other programmable element allowed on any format whether keyboard/pad/joystick.

There is no side tournament.

Any further debate from any player from either side of the arguement is moot in regards to having any impact on the organization or decision making of this tournament from this point forward on this particular matter.

Thank you and have a good night.

131

lol fuck it then I’m not entering.

People that dont even play the fucking game make decisions on this, get the fuck out of here.

132

and we know why you play CvS2

133

evo xmvsf does not allow macros soo how does that arguement stand?? and it really doesnt matter to me macros or not soo im not really on n e side

134

yea ok. You have no idea so why: so why even pretend? Oh wait…I guess you’re just trying to implicate CvS2 as a degenerate game and this coincides with my views…this is about all this comment could mean. It’s like I’m talking to children.
Speak intelligently, make a point, say something…otherwise please dont talk to me. I said NOTHING to you, why come and here and simpy insult me? Is it that hard to actually make a point?

We actually understand xmen vs sf, we know the community and we know 3punch 3kick is not allowed by the top players and EVO organizers. We have our reasons, I don’t know where the insults started but my actual intention was on having a discussion about the matter not some fucking ‘oh you guys are just scared’, ‘the game isn’t even good’ bullshiet…obviously thats not going to happen so forget about it.

135

The only solution to this problem is to run two tourneys. Think about it all we need is two laptops or computers with different rules. Then we mirror the brackets for both the tourneys and all the same people enter both tournaments. Then at the end of both tourneys we compare the results, and if they are very different from one another we know that the marco or lack of macro had some effect. If some one wins both tourneys with a stick (which I doubt) then mystic gods arguments stands, but if they differ greatly then the stick user argument wins. Either way we all get to play more x-men and everybody is happy since everybody is so fuckin stubborn in this thread. One last thing though, i’ve used joysticks for a long time (since around 92 WW days) and if you asked me right now to combo 15 trijumps with mags or storm my success rate would be very low. Now if you go and ask ANY random marco player to do the same there success rate will be much greater then mine. How fair is that? Like in 96’ when the game first came out that wasn’t even a viable option. As a matter of fact only since people have been playing emu versions of the game has trijumping a million times in combo’s been an easy option to use. If somebody can combo an infinite amout of Hk trijumps with storm on a stick as easily as on a keyboard or pad then they are my fucking hero. To do a basic rogue infinite on a stick I have to tiger knee my dash input (to go low to the ground cause pushing three buttons takes time)then input lets say lk, mp then hk and repeat. Now the macro guy comes along and just pushes up then one button then the three buttons in series… if you can’t see where I’m getting at then you guys are just extremely hard headed. Thats comparing my input of going over three switches (down, left, then up for the tiger knee), then three punches then the three buttons. Now lets do that math here, myself on the stick had to activate 9 switches in my controller, where mister marco pushes 5 (up, 3p, lk.mp.hk) to do the exact same combo. Hmm thats basically half the amount of inputs… Don’t even get me started with marco chunli infinte jumping HK’s … The bottom line is that macro has the advantage of impracticality in its simpleness. The problem is that not everyone can use a stick, so lets throw two tournaments and if the stick user wins both then i title him GOD!!!

136

Roger, you start off by saying we should hold two tourneys, but then you make some really good points which IMO clearly show how using macros gives a clear cut advantage to the guy using them. If a player/community is crying about not being able to use macros, that’s pretty weak sauce. Just make the tourney legit, and although you guys may hurt a few peoples’ feelings, in the end, justice will have prevailed!

Oh yeah, about 3P/3K being only allowed on keyboard, I don’t think that’s fair, because I knew a guy that was a keyboard player and he could play like he was on pad/stick. For a keyboard pro, dashing around using a macro is probably even easier than a pad/stick player using one because of the overall tightness of a keyboard.

137

I know first hand that a KB isn’t that hard to use. The button layout is the same and maybe even better( with the keys being so close). The thing was I always used 3 punches manually with no real issues (it seemed to work the same as arcade setup)…
I also know of players who are arcade players but learnt how to play on a Kb with no worries…and in the case of Magneto and Storm could perform combos/infinites much more conisistently on the KB because of the 3punch macro (And of course they are against the use of them…).

138

whoa hate =( but anyway

u’ve already shown how biased u are towards sticks/pads, why would sticks be considered “normal”? because an arcade is played with sticks? so whats with all these new cabinets that has a ps2 controller port? U’ve already shown ur biased point of view.

Yes u dont have to push all 3 buttons at once, but you have to drum it fast enough to have that effect, RCs u can mash because theres no timing to it, u can do it anytime anywhere. FRCs have to be done in certain amount of frames, you try mashing a FRC, and remember, if you hit your fourth button u get to activate instant kill mode, and get urself fucked up. FRC is about timing, not mashing buttons, which is exactly why 1 button FRC has no advantage over a stick player, Do i magically learn how to time an FRC because i one button FRC? Or are u saying that button mapping allows me to mash one button at 60fps and hit the 1-3 frames where the FRC is allowed? Can u actually list these “advantages” that i get for having a FRC button? btw, in ggxx, if you hit that button without actually being able to RC/FRC at that time, you get a P. If i were to mash my RC/FRCs, i’d end up doing RC -> P or FRC -> P, which is unlikely what i want to do.

Once again, ur just showing how biased you are at judging whats considered a “COMPETITIVE FIGHTING GAME TOURNAMENT”. I cant be competitive being a pad player? Console players are all scrubs unless they use sticks? Yes i think its a waste of money to get one, the fact that i’ve bought 4 (all those SC2 or TK4 sticks) and they’ve all broken randomly doesnt please me at all, i have better things to do with my money than to pay for sticks that break. Yes im poor and cheap, i cant spend my money making custom sticks and like you do. Maybe investing in a custom stick in the beginning would have been a wise choice, but its too late now.

what does banning/allowing pad hafta do with supporting the scene? anyone of us saying that line is usually joking and messing around (mainly because jay said that he “supports the fucking scene” by joining a 2 dollar tournament), or at least whenever i say it i just say it for the hell of it, if u dont wanna support/join a tournament nobody can force u, calm down on lines like this.
And its not like im not gonna join if u ban pads, so this part was pointless.
And yes, i thought it was up to him because hes the one hosting and there is no big list of specific rules about whats allowed and stuff like that, so naturally the host should decide. If you feel like running it and banning pads, then by all means do so. I’ll still join and play competitively.

Im more like trying to get confirmation about button mapping or not, the fact that nobody else is saying anything about ggxx button mapping doesnt help, if i were hardcore and were to practice on pad until the date of T8 and find out button mapping is banned, whats the point of practicing on pad?
However, so far i hear no objections about ggxx button mapping aside from you (im actually hearing people agree to it), and ur not even stating out reasons why button mapping gives advantage, u just THINK that “normally” and “competitively” game play is played on sticks instead of pads so you go ahead and bash pad players and say they have “advantages” and that they’re not considered as “normal” and “competitive” players. So whos throwing out opinions and thinking that its above everyone else?

Conclusion: u’re just a pad hater. Plz dont be hating. Maybe you should give playing on pad and see if you can perform on pad like you do on sticks. If you can FRC on sticks, then surely you can FRC on pad without button mapping right? Go try and tell me how u do on pad. Maybe then u’ll finally know that playing both on pad and sticks take skills, and its not about “i have an advantage because i press one button when i should be pressing three”. Think about X-sapphire’s comment, there is no way people at our calibur can miss pressing 3 buttons at once.

i have a feeling im gonna get flamed by darkdragon supporters -_-

139

:confused:

ever try pressing it 60 times in 1 minute? or how about pressing 3 punches and then jab, or 3 kicks and then short in a fraction of a second?

140

Exactly. Why are people even listening to people who dont even PLAY THE FUCKING GAME. What if MegamanDS and Dog-Face come in here and shit on Macro’s and explain why theyre bullshit? Would anyone listen to them?