We’re speaking on principle, a macro set to 3P will let you execute 3P 100% of the time. The results is affected by capcom’s dumb programming, and doesn’t affect the principle.
probably just mame and those other emulators… but ya you’re right.
anyways… bed time
I’m so sick of seeing your putting together the dumbest statements. How about I 1 v 1 you at T8 for an additional $20 street brawl, first guy to concede or require hospitalization. No hitting the balls.
fuck, just shut up. everybody but you hates everything you say. of course you’re adding fuel to the fire. everybody wants you to stfu and get out.
I see where you’re going, but these are the assumptions I make:
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nobody is 100% in execution. We can approach perfection, but I don’t believe perfection actually exists.
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a macro reduces the error on your execution of 3p or 3k. it also allows you to hit the 2 buttons faster.
here’s an example of something you can do no problem with macros: chun li standing infinite:
[jab strong sj cancel airdash j.short j.forward] xN
that’s something I’ve always wanted to integrate into my gameplay. The input is:
jab strong 3K 3P short forward (you can actually use down upforward forward instead, but that’s REALLY fucken hard).
anyways, I’ve never been able to do this on arcade. NEVER. EVER. ONCE. But thanks to Mame and 45 seconds of practice. I did exactly 1 rep. After 5 minutes of straight practice I can do it pretty consistently on KB.
this is the power of macros. Not only do you guarantee inputting all 3 keys on the same frame, but you also reduce the amount of time it takes to do rapid fire inputs with said keys. I can two finger tap 3K 3P (claw style) on keyboard. I cannot do anything remotely similar on joystick. You need some mad skills to do 3K 3P claw input (it’s a real just frame, it’s like karacancelling on the last frame, only instead of short kara throw over a long kara throw, you get a botched combo).
My point being however that macros reduce error and increase capabilities of those proficient in the KB. Now lets look at what you’re saying.
Macros allow you to 3p 100% of the time, which changes the game. (premise 1)
this 100% true. Despite what Mystic Scrub says, if you’re character is in a state where dashing is a legitimate input, inputting dash on teh KB will make him dash.
My execution allows me to 3p 100% of the time. (premise 2)
this is true. think about it, how often do you miss the jab input (1 button input?) ALMOST NEVER. How often does someone screw up a 3 button input? At least once every couple matches even with our pro players. Let’s not account for dash heavy tricks like wave dashing, which are almost flawless with 3P.
Therefore my execution changes the game. (conclusion)
Perhaps this is a bit of a hyperbole, and the conclusion may not even be relevant. The real point. The underlying point. The reason everyone who’s upset is upset is that 3P macros are a handicap that changes the balance of fairness.
In a tournament, everyone wants to find out who the best player is. To figure out who the best player is, the circumstances governing each and every player’s chance to win must be equal.
Allowing some players to use macros changes that.
macros were not part of the game design
macros reduce errors
So regardless of whatever disadvantage you have from using a KB, stop playing KB. XvSF was not designed for KB. But that’s your perogative. Do people give you handicaps if you walk into a Basketball game cause you’re 3 ft tall? NO. You suck it up and deal with the issue.
that’s what this is all about.
I think I skipped your logic debate. Maybe J will persue it. But I hope by clarifying mine I’ve cleared up the issue.
any amount Bet it!
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
$20 on Poeta. Additional $5 that callmeanewb starts crying.
In all seriousness though, this is the kind of shit that will get you banned. Keep it to the games kids.
I hope we took that with a grain of salt.
Uhhh I never called you a scrub, you said I was a scrub after I asked why you were rubbing it in peoples’ face. I never even gave that much of a shit until you started bragging about getting your way for no reason.
I side bet on callmeanewb for 10. Like the other guy said, with all do seriousness, this is just a fucking game. This shit will lead u to nothing.
SRK Old School > all
Funny… calling Ottawa faggots, then in the same line asking a bunch of guys to lick your balls. Why don’t you map a macro to your enter key that calls for your daddy to come sodomize you?
And since it appears that you don’t have beyond grade 6 education, to help you understand what I just said to you:
sodomize
A verb
1 sodomize, sodomise, bugger
practice anal sex upon
Peace.
Then, logically, why don’t you let everyone use super macros? Programmable pads that you input ROM into? Because it cheapens the game. Even if someone did have a past success rate of 100% 3p’s, it still has the chance at failing when attempted afterwards. This is a skill in the game: execution. You need both execution and strategy to do well in the game, and making execution easier does make the game different, just like macro supers would.
And you are using faulty logic as well. Just because the outcome of two logical equations is the same doesn’t mean that the logical equations are equivalent. You have to be using the same worldset of rules.
Your equation should read:
Macros allow you to 3p 100% of the time, which removes an element of execution out of the game. (premise 1)
Removing an element of execution changes the game. (premise 2)
Therefore using macros is changing the game. (conclusion)
What Callmeanewb is saying is that the execution element is lessened by using a macro, and this in effect is changing the way the game plays. QED.
The only way it can be faulty is if my premises are not true. You just tried to prove that my first premise is true with your logic arguments (" Therefore using macros is changing the game."). My second premise is based on a scenario I’m providing, so in that scenario premise 2 has to be true.
If it’s faulty, then my first premise must be false. My first premise is not even something that I agree with, it’s based on what Callmeanewb said “Without a 3p macro, it’s a different game”. So if my premise is faulty then your logical arguments are wrong as well, and Callmeanewb’s statement is wrong. And if that’s so, then you’re not using the “same worldset of rules” either, which I’m not even sure what you mean by to be honest. This ultimately means that using macros doesn’t change the game.
BTW, my arguments are indeed faulty, execution surely does not change a game. The conclusion is incorrect, which must mean that either of the premise is incorrect. Premise 2 can’t be incorrect as I said above, so premise 1 is incorrect, which proves that macros don’t change the game.
No, I called him a scrub, I dont have to know someone to call him a scrub, and like i said previously I dont care if he’s good or not he’s still a scrub
That would just make my day ;). BTW I think you would be hospitalized pretty fast.
In all seriousness tho. I’m gonna stop arguing about all this. I really don’t like having so much bullshit going on especially at a tournament that I’m looking forward to going to.
So considering it seems like I’m the only one that even cares about playing on a keyboard I’ll try to talk to Nagata and see if he’ll somehow consider the 2 tournament idea. If not I’ll just not play. You guys cry too much holy christ. Don’t have nightmares about macros now or anything.
When you say you feel cheated losing to me and that I rely 100% on macros and that I wouldn’t be able to win at all without them. You couldn’t really NOT be saying I’m a scrub. Thats insulting and I know you know how much I played this game in the past. If you honestly think I know nothing about the game and win simply because of a 3p button then you’re just being a arrogant prick.
PS: I wasn’t bragging about anything. People seem to have a hard time reading because all of these arguments were pretty pointless considering we have no say AND its already been decided how the tournament is going to be run. Every time I said it, I had the intention of ending this stupid discussion because the fact that the CONSOLE tournament is allowing macros was already stated.
2 tournaments is a good idea… it’s xmen, they can be run really fast…
i love everyone in this thread
lets play and make some sweet sweet love
Your logic fails in many areas.
First, you can’t make an argument that someone can execute something 100%. You can’t use the impossible to suggest a possible scenerio.
But more importantly, our entire premise is trying to maintain the execution element of the game…because guess what? That’s a huge part in what makes a good player…why do I even have to say this? If someone can execute hitting three buttons 98% of the time - of course we have no problem with that.
To equate this with a macro makes no sense. Why? Because macros remove the execute element which our premise defends. So there is no equation there.
Are you ignoring everything all the players who understand the game limits have said?? Are you still thinking ‘we are scared’ and that’s our motivation to disapprove with macros?
RatioOneBeatdown explained directly how it affects the game - ignored.
All of Ottawa understands (through experience) that it’s a handicap - ignored and disrespected.
All of the recognized top arcade players in the world have stated it affects the game. Even the ones who haven’t used macros can pinpoint which matches used macros when watching them online.
But again, who cares what they think…they are all wrong.
It’s insulting…but whats worse is that we were looking forward to this tournament and the integrity is lost. For what? People using tools that were not even remotely intended for the game (don’t bring up this console shit…you’re using an emulated version of the arcade game) complaining they aren’t capable of playing without them. The logic behind this lost. Logic is logic? Use that logic and then try to counter button mapping for the rest of the moves in this game. You guys have ignored every logical point we have made…dismissing it as bullshit. That’s insulting a really big crowd (CA, US, AUS) who have worked really hard in keeping this game alive. I guess the online players are the ones who did that huh…not the arcade players who posted on this board for years and have been running tournaments for it (including EVO).
You guys made the decision on your own and that’s fine - it’s your tournament. Please at least attempt to understand where we are coming from …and I guess that means don’t take our word as bullshit. It’s fustrating for us because we like this game…we don’t care if you look down upon us for liking it; but we do care when you guys alter it’s dynamics and explain that the game is bullshit anyway as a reason. Really it just seems your catering to a couple of friends you have in your community…
DarkDragon…you modd sticks?
…this will go well!
Actually, I changed your first premise. Look again.
The worldset of rules is a set of rules that all premises follow. I’m saying your twisting his argument for your own end. He’s saying it removes execution which removes skill; you’re saying that skill doesn’t matter, only the end result does.
Yes it does. Removing execution means you might as well have a 1 button win. Doesn’t that change the game? Look back to what I said about one button supers. Would you allow those as well?
Now speaking of illogical, this is ridiculous. Stating that a premise is incorrect doesn’t prove the conclusion incorrect. All it’s saying is that your logic is wrong. Re-read my post. Removing skill from a game changes the game.