I like how you guys continuously ignore me like I’m not here:wasted:
and to think I was going to tell you the secret of getting to America as T.Hawk.:razzy:
props to that video showcasing the j.lp, cross-up dive. :tup:
I was wondering, would CS.mp be an option against neutral jumps? I remember someone saying CS.mp was a very good anti-air a while ago. Also, would st.RH be good against those who jump away like Zangief’s st.RH?
Do you guys try to hitconfirm of st.cl.HP? Framedata says it +6, like close medium punch.Also, can you cancel J.lp or any air normal into Dive?
Close MK for tick is viable, but it isn’t as fast as Close MP to me.
As for close range normals as anti air, roundhouse wins. The hitbox and speed is just insane. Think Daimon’s D button for Anti air.
For people that are trying to jump away, c.mp works.
No.It’s still the same from vanilla SFIV.:wasted:
Thanx man i think it helps…a lot.
c.Hp is a pretty good anti air.Under a few circumstances of course.
S.Hp is not an anti air.But has a good range to hit.
Also i didn’t try to do close S.Mp.I think it’s an anti air.And probably will work like close H.p of Rufus as an anti air.Maybe not.Sorry we have a 360 for 2 days and there were a lot of people to try their characters and i was able to see T.Hawk overall.
But i make the video with the Cross up Dives (and Jumping Lp+Condor Dive string).
Hmm, interesting. Thanks Heroic_Legacy. One more question: does Hawk have any normals that beat shoto cr.mk?
one thing i found that’s pretty cool is doing a close mpXXjab condor spire. it’s kind of like dhalsim’s back mp into fireball where you catch them when they try to cross you up and then cancel into the spire so that it puts you in perfect mix up range.
Why are people jumping at T Hawk, is my question. I like the mixups off of air to air jab xx dive too, it’s just… why would the opponent be in the air against Hawk unless he had some sick jump attack like Rufus jump rh that beats Hawk’s jump jab anyway? And antiair mp xx spire sounds cool, but again, who’s trying to jump at Hawk like that? Also, how can his close mixup game be as good as Gief’s? He has a worse crossup, no hit confirmable low combos, and worse anti-backdash/teleport responses.
Again, I like his normals a lot. But that’s about it.
it’s just stuff to know in the back of your mind, not a case for why t. hawk is top tier. if anybody thinks they’re going to be doing j.jab to dive mix ups all day then they’re obviously going to lose a lot but you see top players do things they shouldn’t fairly often. sometimes its cause they messed up, sometimes they were set up and sometimes they were put in a position such that they had to take that risk and so it’s better to know your options then to not know them. he’s a new character so there isn’t anything that isn’t worth sharing. just throw stuff out there and see what sticks.
Elaborate on the backdash thing. lol
Are his normals better against Sagat? 
Condor Spire is low invulnerable. Yomi that c.mk and get right in their face.
If you want to counterpoke it, use c.hp.
I think it’s too early to call whether Hawk is good or bad. I’ll save you the lecture, but I’m in the “he’s pretty damn good” camp.
He means that T. Hawk has poor options against opponents who try to back dash out of tick throws, or on wake up. I haven’t tried it yet, but cr. jab/option select sweep should work, his sweep is fast enough. Condor Spire would work too, maybe not against longer back dashes like Viper and Chun though. St. roundhouse too? I don’t know, I’m pulling options out of my ass, I haven’t played in a week.
You can actually hit confirm and combo cr. lk x2 > Tomahawk (or cr. lk > st. mp on certain characters) with the first cr. lk at close range as a meaty on the opponent’s wakeup. The timing will take getting used to, and the hit confirmation window is smaller than say, Gief’s cr. lk x2 > EX greenhands, but can’t be used in as many situations like Gief ie: cr. lk o-s tech throw (lp+lk) > lkxx > EX greenhands.
People can actually safe jump Thawk when he’s waking up so you actually have to play some defense with him unlike Gief where you could just use Lariat as an anti-air in a lot of different situations. Even with EX Tomahawk, seeming to be the most reliable anti-air with the invincibility, w/o meter and if you don’t necessarily have the reaction time, PPP is so much easier to press with Gief than a dp motion and w/o requiring meter to use it.
But anyways, I think I’m going to stick with Gief for the most part. I really don’t feel like Thawk can be played as a low risk/Solid character like Gief can be played as. You have to be playing a risky 50/50 game most of the time with Thawk which I don’t really like, but I think his mixup options on the opponent’s wakeup on the other hand are a little better than Gief’s in that aspect especially with meter. His normals are also slower than Gief’s and a lot more punishable - someone charging a focus attack fishing for a st. HK has enough time to release a level 2 focus attack > ultra
T. Hawk isn’t Gief, so he won’t play like Gief. He doesn’t have a long range hit confirms into knock downs, but I would say he has better buttons overall. His strength is in zoning and the pay off is pretty big for relatively low risk. Just look at the first round in [media=youtube]bqMNaAVHCk0[/media] After eating Fuerte’s mix ups several times in a row, all he needs is one jab SPD and two normals to deal 50% damage and take the life lead. I know Fuerte has low stamina, but that’s still 450 damage in very few moves. From my experience, opponents typically get frustrated after eating counter hit st. roundhouses from a quarter screen away, so they start fishing with focus attacks hoping for a crumple. Jump in SPD punishes that easily.
Jab SPD is disgusting. I think its range is better than Zangief’s and he has way more options. As much as I love fierce SPD, this move will prove to be T. Hawk’s saving grace in the end. Afterward you can cross up/fake cross up ambiguously with Condor Spire, you can cross up with j. splash and you can j. jab xx cross up Hawk Dive like Tirasoul discovered. Never before has a grappler made it so hard for his opponent block correctly. His oki game is really strong, it’ll just take some time to discover strong anti-jump and anti-back dash tools.
While Gief will spend the vast majority of the round struggling to get in, it’s almost effortless for T. Hawk in comparison. All it takes is one well timed Hawk Dive from anywhere on the screen and you’re good to go. I would argue it’s probably his best move; fast start up, great hitbox, travels fast and it recovers quickly on whiff. It allows T. Hawk to mix up how he approaches in the air in ways Gief can only dream of doing. Delayed Hawk Dives are great against antsy opponents who anti-air early. “Instant” Hawk Dives are great for landing short of your opponent and buffering 720. Because this move is so fucking scary, it doesn’t take long for your opponent to respect it. Once you condition them to expect Hawk Dives in certain scenarios, you mix it up; they’ll hesitate, you punish it. T. Hawk can scare Sagat into not pushing buttons or throwing fireballs. Gief can’t say the same.
In short, T. Hawk can close the distance in seconds with his amazing Hawk Dive. From there he can set up one jab SPD and proceed to mix up the hell out of his opponent. After he gets the life lead, play footsies in a range where it’s unsafe to throw fireballs and just poke them to death.
Good shit, Tofu. Smart dive use is going to be key for sure. Do you plan to main T.Hawk?
Good writeup tofu warrior, yeah that’s me playing in that match, I talked to my friend after that and he said that T Hawk was scarier than Gief in terms of the Fuerte matchup. He felt that he had more options and Fuerte can’t lock him down as much as Gief.
I’m not sure about it myself since that was the first time he played my T Hawk and he’s played my gief dozens of times already. But yeah, I agree I love the jab spd because it allows for many possibilities. Since I haven’t learned much about T Hawk I was pretty much playing him like Gief (i.e. splash on wakeup), but of course I’m going to try more things when I have the time.
So far, I’m liking T Hawk. He has greater mobility, maybe not the same kind of auto-damage that gief can have sometimes, but he seems more versatile. I think I may make the switch permanently to T Hawk, not sure yet.
I said as much in the gief thread about it only takeing one well placed hawk dive. The way I see it; All it takes is one bad fireball or aa or unsafe move by your opponent. and you are in their face. I think Right now T-Hawk looks like a 50/50 character on the surface but with time, as people figure out how to play his footsies I suspect he will become a LOT safer. I think the tools are there, and I think we are finding them. We just have to determine the appropriate methods of application.
Hawk will replace giefs spot in the tier list. Im putting money on it. Raging Slash will be used in some matchups where neutral jump beats almost anything hawk can throw at him (i had a lot of problem with chun and ken doing this cause down fierce and dp will get stuffed.) Im going to two tournaments this weekend. Hopefully I can get some footage from singles and teams.
T Hawk is the fucking man son
This is not even close to accurate. In 4, after a neutral throw or a 360k, Gief could do a regular jump for a crossup and a short jump to not cross up, and either a splash or a whiffed splash into cr. short combo. There were no visual cues as to which side he’d be on. In essense you had a 25% chance of blocking it right (toward high, toward low, away high, away low). And that’s if you don’t think he’d going for grab again. Oh, and the splash was a safe jump against most characters. And he could also do a splash -whiff splash into low short combo any time. And there were ranges where a jump would cross up with splash and not cross up with short knees.
This is the kind of thing that I dont think Hawk has. If I block that crossup dive, you’re eating whatever my biggest combo is. If I block that spire or splash, what are you gonna do to stop me from mashing backdash after (or from mashing backdash from the start)? As far as I can tell, Gief is both safer and more dangerous up close.
I’d love for you guys to come up with new Hawk technology and for him to be a good character. But right now I’m not seeing it.