Wouldn’t a sweep tag that backdash if you don’t whiff a grab?
I’m guessing it would depending on whose dash it was, really. Unless T. Hawk’s sweep can catch all people’s backdashes, which I doubt it can–looking at you oiled Hakan. [/stating the obvious]
People are mixing up the hawk dive with the following:
Your opponents down! You f.jump / n.jump and you are at hawk dive angle! Depending on the timing you can:
-Xup hawk dive.
-Crossup body splash. For 1 EX you can EX tomahawk, if you have two ex, you can Body splash->ex tomahawk->ex dive. It combos in this scenario.
-Body splash with out crossup, same options as above.
-Late hawk dive, but land short and 360p. They block and you hawk dive at the right time. your in front of them they eat a 360p for their caution.
-Whiff Hawk dive over them. Will go UNDER alot of AA attacks giving you free 360p. If they dont AA you can still do whatever. Positioning tool?
-Plain old hawk dive in the face! Do this after they start trying to Wakeup AA to counter the other stuff. Hawk dive will stuff wakeup DP from ken and others.
-Empty Jump->720/360 DELICIOUS!
-Jumping jab->crossover hawkdive. Im using this now. some serious “wth just happened?” responses.
-Jumping Jab->hawkdive. Do this when they think they have they have the above figured out. Results in more confusion.
-Jumping jab->empty , throw them while they are waiting to block a hawk dive that never comes. Really great since sometime they block towards you (expecting that crossover dive) and walk into you waiting arms. “THE MADNESS!!” as someone else put it.
As far as spire goes, if you mix up the ranges, you can really mess with people. Anytime they incorrectly guess the range, they get punished for it.
If they try to punish by blocking, then Hitting. Next time your going to spire into them do a jab spire->360p instead. If they punish with attacks , then you can jab spire and block the incoming attack. Since its a punish its frequently unsafe on block. You punish their punish. In the future they will think twice about punishing with it.
Is it as good as gief? HELL NO! Giefs options are WAY safer. IF they guess right, they are rewarded far more than giefs opponents. Whats more there are some visual cues that can narrow thing s down for them if they are extremely fast. They have to act so quickly that I dont even think the cues will matter online. Just to give people an idea how small the window is.
Is this all of it? / Is this as good as its going to get? We dont know yet… People are still finding stuff.
Is he a viable Alternative to gief? I think so, Im not saying hes the same as gief; hes a very different character, And he doesnt get the free damage gief does in close. He has to work for it more once he gets there. But he WILL get there, you cant always say that about gief. I think Gief players should try him and see if hes a better match for their playstyle. I am not anywhere close to picking a main yet. Im still going back and forth between dudley, adon,t-hawk,the new and improved claw, Zangeif, hakan, and Dan. But I am starting to see a bit of a lean towards T-Hawk.
Yeah, I do. Are you going to be attending any of the tournaments being held this weekend? I’m probably hitting up the one in the city, rather than trekking all the way to Hamilton for the Pownz e-sports thing.
Point taken, but Zangief won’t be setting up those deadly mix ups as often as T. Hawk will. Hawk’s jab SPD outranges Zangief’s normal throw and close 360+K by a huge margin. It also comes out 1F faster than his normal throw. I agree with you that back dashing will be tough for Hawk to deal with, but I’m sure we’ll come up with something. And as for j. jab xx cross up Hawk Dive, there’s no visual cue for that either. It’s a completely blind guess, and easily the fastest away/toward mix up in the game, a lot faster than Viper’s burning kick shenanigans.
I won’t be attending any tourny’s for a bit. I am looking at maining Hawk as well. Hopefully, I will see you at a tourney or two down the line. I can’t wait till I get my hands on the game!!
Real talk, if i can find a better way to punish back dashes rather than stand roundhouse, hawk will be a monster. holding onto some stuff but lets just say its a little unconventional and im kind of eating my words about some of his moves. Right now im working on implementing option select stand roundhouse off of jabs to make people not want to back dash.
Splash is an INSANE move. I sat in training and tried backdashing or forward dashing a crossup splash to avoid it, and i couldnt. every time, i would get stuffed before i even started to. Jab 360 is very godlike. The setups and potential after it is nuts.
I hate df.jab. That move sucks. Hard. Dont ever use it. I heard people using it for anti air/jump but why? Why not down fierce? a much better move.
Low forward is insane in jab 360 shenanigans.
I still am thinking he will be very good. Just like ST though, he will have a lot of problems against turtlers.
Use st.forward against ken. Rapes his f.forward and cr.forward [obv cr.forward is a shoto thing, so use it on them too]
Stand fierce / RH to trade with sagat and other fireballers. Be wary, they will bait you and focus and crumple you.
D.mp in air does NOT hit unless they jump. Very sneaky for something like jumping over a fireball you cant punish, whiff d.mp 360.
If df.lp was an overhead that did jab damage I’d be happy. But instead it’s a waste of a move. I guess it’s another look to buffer 720 off of.
Out of curiosity, who did you try to dash and backdash with?
I tried Ken and Chun because I was testing some stuff on them. Its not just them though, other people ive been playing with have been saying very similar things. Chars include cody, sagat, dee jay, abel, and makoto but im sure its just that hitbox on the splash.
Yo Grid. Do you have AIM? I wanna have a nice convo with you.
EDIT: I see you have one, but your not available. Use meebo or something broski, we gotta talk.
When you guys say “option select” what do you mean? sorry I’m still trying to understand the way we speak here. I’ll be happy when I finally do lol (Thanks Tofu for the link on some of the jabber they say here)
@Dias4Flac check out this thread http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=202523
It’s a sticky thread in the Zangief forum that goes over pretty much every terminology you need, way better than I could explain it. It also has some good stuff I would consider “basics” such as o-s throw (cr. tech).
pancho - i added you to my BL. you should be able to see me next time youre on
[media=youtube]aHHoGHcgK9k[/media]
I’m curious to see what gridman has cooked up. I have a feeling something big will be discovered shortly after release.
I’ve played T. Hawk for a while with some friends, but I don’t have a copy of the game myself to test stuff with, so would you guys be able to test these things out for me?
-can you link two s.mp into each other?
-can you link into sweep off of anything?
-is it possible to do j.LP xx hawk dive and have both hits hit on the front, rather than the hawk dive crossing up? especially on knockdown
-What are the relative grab ranges on the 360, does jab go noticeably further than strong and fierce?
-what is the best combo hawk can hit confirm out of a crouching jab? All I could get was cr.lp, cr.lp, s.lp, s.mp.
So if you know the answers to any of these please help me out, thanks a lot!
EDIT: okay apparently you can in fact link two s.MPs, I guess it’s one of his trials.
Now my question is can you do cr.LP, s.LP, s.MP, s.MP or anything like that where you end a combo with two MPs?
^^ Linking two mps is only done by Close Mp, far st.mp.
Sweep cant be linked
Yes it combos too
Jab 360 has some dirty range, walk in and out of footsie range and jab 360 some limbs.
Hawk has no combos off of cr.jab besides that. st.jab x 2 lp dp works but it doesnt work off a crossup i believe. I couldnt get it to.
Good block string to get in and keep pressure on - cr.jab x 2 or 3 (if after xup), far st.lk, xx ex spire. verrry dirty. If someone tries to jump or do anything but dp/invincible move, they’ll get tagged. Sometimes they’ll even trade which is always in your favor. You can also mix up and make some shit whiff if you do like max range far st.lk xx jab spire.
Trade trade trade. Seriously, its RARELY not in your favor.
best combo string I could get off jump in are these:
j.hp > st.hp > link c.mp (only on standing but does more damage than a combo with ex Spire XX ex TB xx ex Dive which is nuts)
cross up > c.lp > st.lp >link c.mp ( can also c.mk so it becomes like a bison-esque string) seems to be my staple so far and I’ll explain mix ups and follow ups to this next
going for c.mp link seems safe and nets me some counter hits. After c.mp lands or whiffs I throw out another poke such as Fierce, RH, or sweep and a CH from one of these makes the damage rack up. This leads to my opponent jumping away or trying to jump in which I react to with AA c.HP. I try to couple this with ultra 2 (because I love it and hate the fact that ultra 1 has him doing the “how” sign) in order to make the opponent fear staying on the ground or jumping to avoid me.
now for the mix up from cross up > c.lp > st.lp >link c.mp string
After conditioning I go to this : c.lp > st. lp > c.lk whiff > 360 the c.lk looks like its in range to connect and barely whiffs which then nets you a 360 on a still opponent.
the above then leads to this : c.lp > st. lp > c.lk whiff > df.lp (or back to c.mp possibly)
I’ve spent my day trying to create some good combos and strings but its hard because alot of his normals don’t cancel into special moves which suck hard.
His play style is looking alot like just abusing normals and 360’s than real good combos and strings.
I welcome all opinions and critique, lets progress further into good Hawk players!
Still wondering about this:
-is it possible to do j.LP xx hawk dive and have both hits hit on the front, rather than the hawk dive crossing up?
Could anyone test this for me? Thanks a lot.
^^ already said yes and it can combo
Been playing hawk off and on all day today. liking him a lot. he just plain intimidates people. seeing deejay, guile, juri, ryu, blanka, and dictator as tough matches. definitely liking raging slash. nobody sees that coming. I can say that it whiffs through ken’s regular hurricane kick but I haven’t had it lose to a single jump in attack yet.